Well hello everyone,
I was recently thinking about making a Twink and while I tried a few outfits and classes on wowdigger.com (similar to ct-profiles for those who do not know) I looked at the stats I managed to achieve there (250 ap and 166 agi) and did some math I calculated that with feral specc i could reach 517.5 ap in cat form @ lvl 29.
I calculated: Base Power + agi + level*2 + (level*1.5 (from talents))
Now this seemed like some serious power to me at that lvl and with some MotW(6 to all) and blessing of might(85 power) from some higher lvl guys and some battleshout(55 power) from a 29 warrior which are all pretty available, that would put me @ 675.5 not to mention pots and improved hunter's mark to break the 700 ap border.
Now if I've done the math right and the dressing- program didn't ***** up, to how much damage on a normal attack will the 700+ ap convert at lvl 29, and how much could one crit with shred.
And ofc: will rogues and the other twinking classes do alot more damage or are the benefits of the ability to heal and shift to bear form and the huge (I think) ap worth choosing a Druid twink over the other classes? I mean on the other hand Druids dont have as good stuns and are also reported to do less Dmg than Rogues, who are ofc the counterpart to cat-form specialised feral Druids.
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29 Druid Twink?Follow
Well ok, let's not make this too complicated as noone seems to be willing to debate the strenghts and weaknesses of different twinking classes.
It would already help me alot if anyone could just tell me the formula which is used to calculate the amount of damage a Druid in cat-form will do at a certain level with a certain amount of attack power.
It would already help me alot if anyone could just tell me the formula which is used to calculate the amount of damage a Druid in cat-form will do at a certain level with a certain amount of attack power.
14 attack power= 1 DPS...so 700/14 should give you your DPS and hit because it is based on a 1 sec swing. You should be able to figure shred from there.
At first I was also thinking that it might be this way, but after looking at the damage a level 19 Rogue twink will hit for with a slow dagger when he has some decent buffs on (around 80 each hit) it seemed kind of retarded to me that some lvl 29 dude with close to the best Damage gear possible on and buffed with higher lvl buffs should only do 50 Dps base. (700/14=50)
I mean the lvl 19 rogue would certainly be able to top that with his offhand counted, not to mention some 29 rogue twink with better weapon and higher ap and higher ambush rank.
Because if you assume 50 damage as the average damage the druid will then do, one couldn't even top 500 damage on a shred crit with berserker and tiger's fury on(((50+10)*2.25+54)*1.3*2), and if I am not totally mistaken 19 rogues can top 600 crits on ambush(again with zerker and stuff).
So after all i came to the conclusion that there must be some kind of base damage for each level where one has to add the additional dps from the ap on top, to keep this stuff balanced (of course I can be wrong).
I mean the lvl 19 rogue would certainly be able to top that with his offhand counted, not to mention some 29 rogue twink with better weapon and higher ap and higher ambush rank.
Because if you assume 50 damage as the average damage the druid will then do, one couldn't even top 500 damage on a shred crit with berserker and tiger's fury on(((50+10)*2.25+54)*1.3*2), and if I am not totally mistaken 19 rogues can top 600 crits on ambush(again with zerker and stuff).
So after all i came to the conclusion that there must be some kind of base damage for each level where one has to add the additional dps from the ap on top, to keep this stuff balanced (of course I can be wrong).
8 posts
Im a 29 druid atm and i find that i rape... so i do consider it because if ur doing fine and ur friends still introuble u can heal him and or urself. Be a lw and you can also save your money and make urself some toughed gloves and some barbaric bracers. BE A DRUID THEY TANK
Gosh, a lot of people here really hate twinks and twinking (/duck) - and I actually understand this. I was wiped out by twinks many times before I realized Bliz was not going to get rid of twinks - and the only way I could really enjoy BGs was to twink myself (or...).
The "or" - for ages my 39 druid was in wsg, untwinked. I was a flag stealer. As a potion maker and fisher, I could start a night w/ several stacks of fap (free action potion) - and I'd just annoy the crap out of those Allies turtling on the flag.
I'd sneak in on the second floor - drink fap while jumping down - and the frost trap, the pallie's stun - the mage's fn - whatever was waiting for me - I ignored it. I'd grab flag, regen and bear and RUN! Once out the door, I was often gone! Yeah, if I had a rogue w/ his sprint up - I was often dead. But many times once I got out that door, I was in travel form - or sprinting in cat form - and I was gone - score.
And this was with awful gear.
I bring this up because BGs aren't just about your "raw power," your ability to pwn other players -- they're about winning the game! Druids are the best flag stealers bar none, and a druid w/ FAPs is just plain "cheating" - "imba" - whatever (it's not really cheating, but it feels like it - really, when I could steal flag from right under the noses of two pallies, a hunter and a mage defending - man - they had to be ticked off!).
For 29 gear I'd strongly consider:
All 3 items in STV hemmet nessignwary, jr. quests - the breastplate pants and gloves from those long, chain hunting quests. You start them around 25. Get a 70 to help you. You tag the mob, he kills it. Or do it grouped. Watch exp gain - doing it w/ a 70 grouped or nongrouped lowers your exp per kill.
Enduring cap, AH, is good for mana - should you need it. Otherwise, any "of the monkey " leather from AH. Or of the bear (if they exist).
There are some blue 2h maces w/ good stats - cobalt crusher?? ALso look at manual crowd pummeler, gnomer drop.
Pants - what you really want, instead of the STV pants, is petrospil leggings or trollhide - with a clefthide armor kit on them. Killer agi and stam that way - unbelieveable. Gnomer quest reward pants are good (triprunner dungarees, H and A can get) - but - you can't put clefthide armor kit on them. At your level you need a 60+ to put the kit on for you, so it must be on a BoE (must be ddone in inv - can't be done in "not to be traded" window like an enchant).
For gear, that will get you started. Razzeric's racing grips are good, too. The gear I've listed is more agi/stam - you may want more str/sta for dps - I think str = more dps in catform (but agi helps in many many ways, too).
But back to "what are you doing in bg?" Learn to steal flag in wsg. Learn to stop flag stealers. In cat form you have track human (I think you get it at 29, if not, disregard). Use root to stop flag stealers in midfield! Use your speed to head them off! Also, when an enemy speedster (druid or shaman) gets your flag, sometimes your "only hope" is for YOU to go grab their flag - as fast as possible - and to run an unexpected direction and get over.
(or hibernate that annoying enemy speedster - learn to time it - you get the cat or ghostwolf's vector, use your speed to intercept - go to caster and do Hibernate as he runs past - be ready to recast if he trinkets out (recast hibernate or roots, depending on whether he stays animal or goes caster form) - now he's stuck, and you can call your side's dpsers over to help you finish him off!)
Learn what to do when caught midfield running flag! Work on transfers - a hugely helpful tactic.
Now to AB (oh, AB has a lot of good twink items, boots, belt mostly). Again, what is your role here towards winning and not just mere pwning?
You are fast. When your side owns the BS, LM and Farm - what do you do? Sit at one and defend?
NO! Flex! Sit at the base of LM where you can see BS adn Farm - and tell people to call incomings early. "Inc 3 from Sta to LM!" Pop cat (you run at 30% faster w/ feral talent - get this of course) and run up to LM. Defend it. Go back to your flex point.
Uh oh, they zerg. YOu figure sta is open now, cuz most of them are in the zerg.
Get over there and ninja the sta. Swim in seal form to sneak up on the place form the water@! Use seal to escape enemies!
See what I'm getting at? Don't just be fixated on mindless pwning! That's stupid. Morons do that. Be smarter and play to win. Druids are awesome in BG - not because of AP and dps and blah blah blah - we're awesome cuz we WIN GAMES. I used to win games for my side in WSG when I was totally untwinked and wimpy, based purely on skill and daring (and faps)! Get out of twink mindset and expand your goals. You'll be much happier.
(cuz twinks who just go in to mindlessly grind midfield and not contribute to victory are pathetic - and I'm not accusing you of this - just pointing out that this is why a lot of twinks are so hated - cuz they just go in and fight - and don't play the flags - and do nothing to help their side win). Good luck!
Edited, Oct 24th 2007 3:11pm by IponemaGirl
Edited, Oct 24th 2007 3:14pm by IponemaGirl
The "or" - for ages my 39 druid was in wsg, untwinked. I was a flag stealer. As a potion maker and fisher, I could start a night w/ several stacks of fap (free action potion) - and I'd just annoy the crap out of those Allies turtling on the flag.
I'd sneak in on the second floor - drink fap while jumping down - and the frost trap, the pallie's stun - the mage's fn - whatever was waiting for me - I ignored it. I'd grab flag, regen and bear and RUN! Once out the door, I was often gone! Yeah, if I had a rogue w/ his sprint up - I was often dead. But many times once I got out that door, I was in travel form - or sprinting in cat form - and I was gone - score.
And this was with awful gear.
I bring this up because BGs aren't just about your "raw power," your ability to pwn other players -- they're about winning the game! Druids are the best flag stealers bar none, and a druid w/ FAPs is just plain "cheating" - "imba" - whatever (it's not really cheating, but it feels like it - really, when I could steal flag from right under the noses of two pallies, a hunter and a mage defending - man - they had to be ticked off!).
For 29 gear I'd strongly consider:
All 3 items in STV hemmet nessignwary, jr. quests - the breastplate pants and gloves from those long, chain hunting quests. You start them around 25. Get a 70 to help you. You tag the mob, he kills it. Or do it grouped. Watch exp gain - doing it w/ a 70 grouped or nongrouped lowers your exp per kill.
Enduring cap, AH, is good for mana - should you need it. Otherwise, any "of the monkey " leather from AH. Or of the bear (if they exist).
There are some blue 2h maces w/ good stats - cobalt crusher?? ALso look at manual crowd pummeler, gnomer drop.
Pants - what you really want, instead of the STV pants, is petrospil leggings or trollhide - with a clefthide armor kit on them. Killer agi and stam that way - unbelieveable. Gnomer quest reward pants are good (triprunner dungarees, H and A can get) - but - you can't put clefthide armor kit on them. At your level you need a 60+ to put the kit on for you, so it must be on a BoE (must be ddone in inv - can't be done in "not to be traded" window like an enchant).
For gear, that will get you started. Razzeric's racing grips are good, too. The gear I've listed is more agi/stam - you may want more str/sta for dps - I think str = more dps in catform (but agi helps in many many ways, too).
But back to "what are you doing in bg?" Learn to steal flag in wsg. Learn to stop flag stealers. In cat form you have track human (I think you get it at 29, if not, disregard). Use root to stop flag stealers in midfield! Use your speed to head them off! Also, when an enemy speedster (druid or shaman) gets your flag, sometimes your "only hope" is for YOU to go grab their flag - as fast as possible - and to run an unexpected direction and get over.
(or hibernate that annoying enemy speedster - learn to time it - you get the cat or ghostwolf's vector, use your speed to intercept - go to caster and do Hibernate as he runs past - be ready to recast if he trinkets out (recast hibernate or roots, depending on whether he stays animal or goes caster form) - now he's stuck, and you can call your side's dpsers over to help you finish him off!)
Learn what to do when caught midfield running flag! Work on transfers - a hugely helpful tactic.
Now to AB (oh, AB has a lot of good twink items, boots, belt mostly). Again, what is your role here towards winning and not just mere pwning?
You are fast. When your side owns the BS, LM and Farm - what do you do? Sit at one and defend?
NO! Flex! Sit at the base of LM where you can see BS adn Farm - and tell people to call incomings early. "Inc 3 from Sta to LM!" Pop cat (you run at 30% faster w/ feral talent - get this of course) and run up to LM. Defend it. Go back to your flex point.
Uh oh, they zerg. YOu figure sta is open now, cuz most of them are in the zerg.
Get over there and ninja the sta. Swim in seal form to sneak up on the place form the water@! Use seal to escape enemies!
See what I'm getting at? Don't just be fixated on mindless pwning! That's stupid. Morons do that. Be smarter and play to win. Druids are awesome in BG - not because of AP and dps and blah blah blah - we're awesome cuz we WIN GAMES. I used to win games for my side in WSG when I was totally untwinked and wimpy, based purely on skill and daring (and faps)! Get out of twink mindset and expand your goals. You'll be much happier.
(cuz twinks who just go in to mindlessly grind midfield and not contribute to victory are pathetic - and I'm not accusing you of this - just pointing out that this is why a lot of twinks are so hated - cuz they just go in and fight - and don't play the flags - and do nothing to help their side win). Good luck!
Edited, Oct 24th 2007 3:11pm by IponemaGirl
Edited, Oct 24th 2007 3:14pm by IponemaGirl
Firstly I want to say thanks fo the first really useful post on this thread and thank you also for going throgh the trouble of writing such a long text.
Secondly: I know where to get the gear for twinking, because its not actually too hard to look up armory and thottbot etc to figure it out.
And last but not least I want to adress all this "many ppl hate twinks and stuff".
I mean as some of you might have realised this game is always progressing in order to keep the 5% of the players who can play long enough to have every pice of gear they could wish for happy. I do not have the time to get myself the gear to stand up to this ppl, and getting skilled enough to beat these kind of lvl 70 twinks will just take as long as my main is a mage.
Personally I want to twink a character, to be once top-of-the-line, just sacrificing some of the money that those addicts gain in mindless grinding sessions just to blow it on their flying mounts.
Of course twinks are annoying to those who just want to have some fun in the lower lvl BGs and after all they are just getting 2-shotted(the way I experienced it), but this is not the fault of those who twink, but of those who made this game the way it is. Everyone will always try getting the edge over the others in his bracket and the next one will be trying to get the edge over the ones with the same gear by enchanting his own (if he has the money), its just normal.
I do not want to be some flag runner, I want some PvP fun; and because the other ones are twinked the only chance of having some alt that is fun to play is twinking. I didn't invent it, sorry.
Also ppl have to get the point for once: winning the BG is boring, I want to PvP, not win some lame Bg to have some music play. My point is not to totally annihilate some poor lowbies, I want to also use skill, by playing against similarly twinked guys and winnning them, or probably to go against higher lvl dudes or many at once. I mean have those Twink-haters even watched some of the better Twink movies and seen what they actually do while not owning lowbie-***.
Sorry that my writing many be poor or the text might sound rude or anything, because I had to write it in a short amount of time and couldn't review it...
Secondly: I know where to get the gear for twinking, because its not actually too hard to look up armory and thottbot etc to figure it out.
And last but not least I want to adress all this "many ppl hate twinks and stuff".
I mean as some of you might have realised this game is always progressing in order to keep the 5% of the players who can play long enough to have every pice of gear they could wish for happy. I do not have the time to get myself the gear to stand up to this ppl, and getting skilled enough to beat these kind of lvl 70 twinks will just take as long as my main is a mage.
Personally I want to twink a character, to be once top-of-the-line, just sacrificing some of the money that those addicts gain in mindless grinding sessions just to blow it on their flying mounts.
Of course twinks are annoying to those who just want to have some fun in the lower lvl BGs and after all they are just getting 2-shotted(the way I experienced it), but this is not the fault of those who twink, but of those who made this game the way it is. Everyone will always try getting the edge over the others in his bracket and the next one will be trying to get the edge over the ones with the same gear by enchanting his own (if he has the money), its just normal.
I do not want to be some flag runner, I want some PvP fun; and because the other ones are twinked the only chance of having some alt that is fun to play is twinking. I didn't invent it, sorry.
Also ppl have to get the point for once: winning the BG is boring, I want to PvP, not win some lame Bg to have some music play. My point is not to totally annihilate some poor lowbies, I want to also use skill, by playing against similarly twinked guys and winnning them, or probably to go against higher lvl dudes or many at once. I mean have those Twink-haters even watched some of the better Twink movies and seen what they actually do while not owning lowbie-***.
Sorry that my writing many be poor or the text might sound rude or anything, because I had to write it in a short amount of time and couldn't review it...
Iponemagirl wrote:
See what I'm getting at? Don't just be fixated on mindless pwning! That's stupid. Morons do that. Be smarter and play to win.
YES, YES, YES!!!
Especially in AB, if you face a zerging army and you know you just can't win, run away. Don't fight! Steal the other bases instead! Live to fight another day!
8 posts
The rogues that are 29 twinks yes they tank but my 28 druid im half a bar away(not twinked) http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Destromath&n=Flawz
(Thats me i just got my self a head and my lw did the rest i made barbaric bracers and toughend leather gloves, i did warsong alot in 19 and got myself a back and a ring, and i did some more ab and i got the feet and i did rfk and got the death speaker mace) trust me its not hard 2 twink druids and 29 rogues get raped and i still laying the dps in kat form and i last a while with 3 guys on me most likly killing 2 when the rogue falls because of his lack of healing
(Thats me i just got my self a head and my lw did the rest i made barbaric bracers and toughend leather gloves, i did warsong alot in 19 and got myself a back and a ring, and i did some more ab and i got the feet and i did rfk and got the death speaker mace) trust me its not hard 2 twink druids and 29 rogues get raped and i still laying the dps in kat form and i last a while with 3 guys on me most likly killing 2 when the rogue falls because of his lack of healing
Quote:
Also ppl have to get the point for once: winning the BG is boring, I want to PvP, not win some lame Bg to have some music play. My point is not to totally annihilate some poor lowbies
To be brutally honest, I'm sorry I tried helping you.
You're the kind of twink I hate - yes hate. You're mentality is ruining BG imo, and ... sheesh, what else can I say?
Go do some first person shooter if your addictive need to kill kill kill kill is that crackishly powerful. WoW is an mmo and offers more than that simplistic, one-dimensional drek. If you find this "stupid" or "boring" - you're in the wrong game.
That you can't lift a finger to play the flags - and I've seen more and more junkies like you, feverishly looking for some lowbie to gank while IGNORING THE FLAG AS IT GOES RIGHT PAST YOU - pathetic. Pathetic. (in AB your kind battles between nodes pointlessly - not pushing past, not going for bases - so stupid).
These BGs require killing, wsg often requires midfield dominance - but if you can't do both. If you can't mix your need to gank and battle with something harder and more challenging (actually winning) - what are you doing here?
Go back to Doom. Thank you. You'll be happier.
(honestly, if the challenge of the BG "game" does nothing for you, what are you there for - why are you in WoW? Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to sound insulting. I'm honestly baffled. What are you doing in a BG if you don't like it? Have you even given "trying to win" a chance? It's very challenging and rewarding, especially when you team up w/ friends and work out strategies for victory ---- I just can't imagine your mindset on this. When I call it "crackish" I again am not trying to insult. I really find it ... limited. Have you ever giving winning a chance? Or did you give up on that? Sheesh ... "wtb a battlegroup w/ no crack addicts and methheads, pls!")
(do you even get that you can do BOTH - that you can kill other players AND work towards winning? Midfield dominance is very important in wsg, but why can't you drop that to go help w/ flag issues??? I'm often in the top five killers in a game - sometimes the top killer - but I also play the flags and help my side win. If that's what you're playing for, a player like me is totally kicking your *** given that all you're doing is midfield homicide/time-wasting - and not ever moving to help deal with flag issues)
Edited, Oct 25th 2007 2:52pm by IponemaGirl
I pretty much never encourage flaming or anything but... I agree with Iponema here.
I won't comment much, or it'll just be a judgmental flame really. I don't like the attitude I sense, nor the mindset you seem to have, but I'll leave it at that.
It seems that, indeed, WoW PvP is not the thing for you as it should not be about simply killing the other team but actually achieving goals, which often involves teamwork. Twinks are pretty much the antonym of "teamwork"... except maybe that one twink *healer* who could support his whole frickin team, but that's another story.
Anyway, you still have to understand that as a twink, you *will* be ruining other people's games, unless you target specifically other twinks. But they don't quite have it written above their heads so...
I won't comment much, or it'll just be a judgmental flame really. I don't like the attitude I sense, nor the mindset you seem to have, but I'll leave it at that.
It seems that, indeed, WoW PvP is not the thing for you as it should not be about simply killing the other team but actually achieving goals, which often involves teamwork. Twinks are pretty much the antonym of "teamwork"... except maybe that one twink *healer* who could support his whole frickin team, but that's another story.
Anyway, you still have to understand that as a twink, you *will* be ruining other people's games, unless you target specifically other twinks. But they don't quite have it written above their heads so...
Quote:
I'm not trying to sound insulting. I'm honestly baffled
Well you actually do, seeing how I myself just requested some advice from ppl who know more about the class than I do, without ever stating how I hate this and that kind of guys like you did.
There are a lot of rude things one could anwer to this, but I'm trying to put some water on the flames instead of oil.
Quote:
You're the kind of twink I hate
If you really read what I posted here on this thread you might probably realise that I do not have a single twink yet, just alts and I get raped by twinks everytime I wanna log on my alts and see if I can't get some refreshing break off the stupid grinding that BC turned out to be for most of the time.
If I wanna carry something through a dangerous area I will just do some escort quests allright?
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That you can't lift a finger to play the flags - and I've seen more and more junkies like you, feverishly looking for some lowbie to gank while IGNORING THE FLAG AS IT GOES RIGHT PAST YOU - pathetic. Pathetic. (in AB your kind battles between nodes pointlessly - not pushing past, not going for bases - so stupid).
C'mon that is just plain stupid, as a non-twink i've alredy tried on many charrs and in different situations to be smart and ninja some flag, but on my server the alliance is kind of harder twinked than the horde side, so they just dominate the mid-field and I come out and get zerged by ppl where each and every player could kill me solo, most likely 5 of my kind actually.
Quote:
Go back to Doom. Thank you. You'll be happier.
Why, this is just soooo unqualified a statement, because the kind of PvP I like is possible in WoW. So there is no reason at all to quit the game to feel happier or sth. I mean try searching some PvP vids, I really want to know how many high rated vids you will find, where the hero is just capturing and saving the flag 30 times in a row. you most likely won't find many; wanna know why that is this way? It's because most ppl don't want to see it, because it is not fun.
Following your logic the top-PvPers of our time must be total noobs and ********, being just fixated on improving their skill in fighting players, and not learning how to better capture the flag... shame on you vurtne, go die cabbarnuke... yeeeees right.
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do you even get that you can do BOTH - that you can kill other players AND work towards winning? Midfield dominance is very important in wsg
So again, show me how you dominate the mid-field with a bunch of non-twinks against a bunch of regulars, who are more experienced and have many times better gear...
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I pretty much never encourage flaming or anything but
Then don't...
If you wanna help me on the questions I originally asked I would really appreciate that. If you just wanna state how you hate me and all other ppl, who have a different attitude on what real PvPing actually is, that is just insulting and doesn't help anyone at all.
My original questions were: what kind of damage could I hope for if I actually twinked a feral-druid, and if twinking a druid is worth it compared to twinking any other classes.
I just wanted to spend all the gold that I will probably manage to grind on a whole new charr, some alt that is actually fun to play and not on some minor improvement on my main.
I do not try to insult anyone here, but as seen above this can happen even if one doesn't intend to do so. If you find something I wrote insulting, then just ignore it and don't take it as serious as it may sound to you, after all I wanna work with you guys and not insult you or get insulted.
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Anyway, you still have to understand that as a twink, you *will* be ruining other people's games, unless you target specifically other twinks. But they don't quite have it written above their heads so...
xD have you even ever seen a real twink? They are glowing in the dark ;) -not hard to see it at all.
edit: Just btw http://eu.wowarmory.com/search.xml?searchQuery=twink&searchType=all
you could also search for twinkiwinky or similar names, but after all, they often enough DO write it above their heads :P
Edited, Oct 26th 2007 6:29am by Groarr
After giving this whole stuff a second thought I also wanted to add, that I totallly understand what you mean when you say that you hate ppl who make you loose because they do not care for the flag at all, and I have also seen it that my team had a lot more twinks than the other side and they were still winning, because half their team just sneaked around the mid- field "pwners" and took out our poorly organised defense just to rush past the mid- field again, doing everything to distract my team from the flag, which they actually managed quite good, because the hyper-cool dudes totally fell for the trick.
But come to think about the majority of the fights just some rogue twink with 1 billion dodge, hp and armor just used sprint and evasion and escape artist and bombs and so on to just rush past our group, gougeing everyone who managed to catch up, and after a short sprint he was in the mid-field, where all his buddie where cuz they were all twinks and dominated the field.
This is all just in case we are assuming a situation where we don't have non-twinks against a twink-guild, which usually then ends in the twinks camping the graveyard and getting our flag as often as they want or just play with us for as long as they want or all /afk out.
Ninja-ing the flag as a non-twink is not as easy as you state it to be here, and all I want is some PvP-fun with realistic chances of winning. and at least on my server I haven't seen horde win alliance in the 19 BG for quite some time, just because they have soo many more twinks than we do. No matter how loud you shout "skill and cleverness wins gear" this won't change reality, seeing that even if you believe it to be this way, this doesn't mean twinks are not clever and skilled also; and they have better gear.
But come to think about the majority of the fights just some rogue twink with 1 billion dodge, hp and armor just used sprint and evasion and escape artist and bombs and so on to just rush past our group, gougeing everyone who managed to catch up, and after a short sprint he was in the mid-field, where all his buddie where cuz they were all twinks and dominated the field.
This is all just in case we are assuming a situation where we don't have non-twinks against a twink-guild, which usually then ends in the twinks camping the graveyard and getting our flag as often as they want or just play with us for as long as they want or all /afk out.
Ninja-ing the flag as a non-twink is not as easy as you state it to be here, and all I want is some PvP-fun with realistic chances of winning. and at least on my server I haven't seen horde win alliance in the 19 BG for quite some time, just because they have soo many more twinks than we do. No matter how loud you shout "skill and cleverness wins gear" this won't change reality, seeing that even if you believe it to be this way, this doesn't mean twinks are not clever and skilled also; and they have better gear.
8 posts
Ya i know what you mean nomatter what about the *mid field sneekers* dont pay attention if ur a twink and they suck azz then you will win the battle
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C'mon that is just plain stupid, as a non-twink i've alredy tried on many charrs and in different situations to be smart and ninja some flag, but on my server the alliance is kind of harder twinked than the horde side, so they just dominate the mid-field and I come out and get zerged by ppl where each and every player could kill me solo, most likely 5 of my kind actually.
I just wanted to point out that BG's are cross server. So unless you hit a premade you should be up against a pretty decent hodgepodge of people from all the servers.
Edited, Oct 27th 2007 11:47am by GryphonStalker
Well probably its not because of this then, but the statement is still the same, there are a lot of twinks and I haven't seen horde win in the 10-19 bracket for quite some time, but due to the fact that getting two-shotted is not fun, I'm also not really playing that often in the BGs on my alts anymore, so probably you know more than me.
If a 19 rogue has a weapon with a 2.8 attack speed, like a cruel barb for instance, and he does 60 damage, he will have 21.4 DPS on that weapon. Factor in an off-hand with 21.4 DPS (really 10.7 DPS) and a miss rate of 24%, and the 19 rogue will end up with 24.4 DPS.
Whereas the druid with 50 damage will do 47.5 DPS, after miss-rate is counted.
This is of course assuming you are behind the target (so block/dodge/parry isn't an issue - PCs cant dodge if the attacker is behind them, unlike NPCs) and the target has 0 armor. For the most part though, the scaling is going to be close to the same as far as mitigation/avoidance goes.
Here are some advantages of a druid twink over a rogue twink:
1. You can heal. Hey, fight's over, I'll use mana instead of costly bandages or food (after a while it can get expensive).
2. Bear form + travel form is great for flag running in WSG, while bear form is good for holding down a flag in AB. I think at 29 there is no better FC than a druid, because you can get away from CC better than most, you can sneak in and run out, and when in trouble you'll have the most health.
The rogue has more stuns and interrupts, I believe they have more burst damage, and they get the benefit of vanish.
Whereas the druid with 50 damage will do 47.5 DPS, after miss-rate is counted.
This is of course assuming you are behind the target (so block/dodge/parry isn't an issue - PCs cant dodge if the attacker is behind them, unlike NPCs) and the target has 0 armor. For the most part though, the scaling is going to be close to the same as far as mitigation/avoidance goes.
Here are some advantages of a druid twink over a rogue twink:
1. You can heal. Hey, fight's over, I'll use mana instead of costly bandages or food (after a while it can get expensive).
2. Bear form + travel form is great for flag running in WSG, while bear form is good for holding down a flag in AB. I think at 29 there is no better FC than a druid, because you can get away from CC better than most, you can sneak in and run out, and when in trouble you'll have the most health.
The rogue has more stuns and interrupts, I believe they have more burst damage, and they get the benefit of vanish.
Hmm, I hope you realise, that with a slower weapon, the rogue will also hit higher numbers, so his dps in gear for attack power will be something like 33 on the main hand and around 17 for the offhand, or something close to that, depending on what his gear is aiming for. when we said that 50 dps is what we assume for the Druid, that was with higher lvl buffs and stuff, so a similarly buffed lvl 19 rogue, if you don't factor any other things but pure dps, will actually do more dmg. Just remember, if you take away the buffs that would result in 517 ap and therefore in about 37 dps, which wouldn't be much more than the 19 rogue's main hand dps...
Of course I wasn't suggesting, that a lvl 19 rogue will clearly and beyond a shadow of doubt outdamage a lvl 29 druid twink who is specced and geared for damage, but if you think about it they come pretty darned close. And you have to remember that if one of his weapons has crusader on, that will increase his ap by 100 every now and then. Druids can not have these kind of procs while in any of the melee forms.
I was just pointing out, that if a lvl 19 rogue twink can nearly compete with a lvl 29 druids damage and if I figured the stuff right, they can also crit higer on their "surprise attacs", that a lvl 29 rogue twink would be doing really MUCH more damage. IF there isn't anything I missed that is of course. That's why I thought there must be some kind of base damage where you have to calculate the dps from the attack power on top for each lvl, to simulate a weapon, the Druid has equipped. It would already help me if someone would go over the math, just looking what he will hit for on a naked target and then look if it really is just his dps from ap. Preferably at lvl 29.
Of course I wasn't suggesting, that a lvl 19 rogue will clearly and beyond a shadow of doubt outdamage a lvl 29 druid twink who is specced and geared for damage, but if you think about it they come pretty darned close. And you have to remember that if one of his weapons has crusader on, that will increase his ap by 100 every now and then. Druids can not have these kind of procs while in any of the melee forms.
I was just pointing out, that if a lvl 19 rogue twink can nearly compete with a lvl 29 druids damage and if I figured the stuff right, they can also crit higer on their "surprise attacs", that a lvl 29 rogue twink would be doing really MUCH more damage. IF there isn't anything I missed that is of course. That's why I thought there must be some kind of base damage where you have to calculate the dps from the attack power on top for each lvl, to simulate a weapon, the Druid has equipped. It would already help me if someone would go over the math, just looking what he will hit for on a naked target and then look if it really is just his dps from ap. Preferably at lvl 29.
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