Hmmm...Caldone will hate this page...Follow

Might I remind you that this is base stats and I can almost guarentee you, base stats, I have more health than a BM hunter, they are not taking into account your "trash points" like the ones I have for increased health/trap/dps :P

Now Base stat wise I cannot argue that yes they do have more DPS, but again, that is Base Stats, that is not including playstyle or gear, so that being said I still could out dps you by a long shot, or barely scrimp by depending on the circumstances.

My hunter has sort of been sitting on the back burner, I will have to pull him out and try that Web Stats thingy...

Except base stat wise MM hunters recieve a **** ton more RAP than base stats. You have listed as 1700 Base Stat for MM while I am running around with 2100+

The difference between a non MM Multishot and an MM multishot is astronomical. We are talking about going from 1k crit maybe to 2.5k minimum damage if crit. That and in Kara the AOE pulls, Explosive + a NON-INTERUPTABLE Volley makes you not loose so much to the mages while the other hunters are sitting there single targeting everything.

CHeck out Hedeiki (I think that is how it is spelled) in my guild Eternity also Dugerato or something, those 2 hunters are both BM and pretty decently geared, and I still top both of them in the raid.

Sorry for double, new post ninja'd in while I was typing.



I sincerely hope you aren't making that statement purely off global damage meters.

Edit: And you have 20 tooltip DPS over Hideaki; it's not surprising that you'd outdamage him one way or another, but he's definitely not BM according to that. >.>

Edited, Oct 22nd 2007 3:21pm by Norellicus

lol @ saying "I top raid damage" based on global meters that include AOEs.

Edit: And 7/45/9 > 0/43/18 for personal DPS. You gave it up for utility of the traps. That's fine, and I'd probably do it too; it's still a comparative sacrifice.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2007 3:54pm by Norellicus

Let's take that table at face value:

BM = 283.01 dps (overall)
MM = 276.23 dps (overall)
SV = 260.37 dps (overall)

So, let's assume a 2 minute fight (120 seconds)

BM = 33961.2 total damage done
MM = 33147.6 total damage done
SV = 31244.4 total damage done

Variance in damage from max:

BM = 0
MM = 813.6
SV = 2716.8

So, you guys are arguing over what exactly? A single Autoshot from a high level MM hunter in a two minute fight? Heck, my 'normal' autoshots can hit 800.

Perhaps you're saying that SV hunters ability to keep multiple targets trapped indefinitely isn't worth a measly 2716.8 damage over a 2 minute fight? Against targets toting 30k+ health it's mostly irrelevant. I'd rather the target be stuck until the group can bring all their might to bear on it rather than worry about fractional dps.

You guys are stoking yourself's silly over DPS and the total variance doesn't even cover the statistical variance of damage in the game per given shot. Over time does it make a difference? Not really, kill a target exactly or by 2k = target still dead. In that fight, with that boss, that's when damage matters and your random factor is well over 10% of the damage per given shot; a variance of 2.4% means diddly squat.

Personally, I admire the SV guys. They forego the ego boosting trip of damage and focus on CC. Yet somehow they are still dealing great damage. Way to go guys.

How about those BM guys, tops in dps with steady consistent work. Always reliable to do great damage when they can leverage that pet against the target. When they can't... well, every spec has its drawbacks. Awesome job figuring out ways to keep that pet in there.

And the lowly Marksman, well, I don't know about anyone else, but I think having a class that can toss massive burst damage at a boss and then dump all that aggro, and not even rely on their pet to do it... well, maybe that has a place too.

Can we bury this stinking pile of !&$# spec-war stuff? It's useless! All specs have their places, all have their utility. All have their own playstyle.

If you want to talk about ways each spec can maximize their damage and still do the other functions of that spec, I'm all ears. Game Balance guys, game balance. If you only look at dps, you'll never find a balance between the specs. Might as well throw out all the specs and make everyone be the exact same.

if I believed in god, I'd say 'Halleluyah!'
Shame that there's no possibility for a double or triple rate-up :)


just take him with a pinch of salt...

Ok, Hediaki was BM, don't know when he respecced, but I remember the big red kitty last time we were in Kara, from him.



WTF?

So I take it you do not include any AOE?

It is not bases boss fight wise off AOE's, we reset before boss and I still top. Degerato or whetever his name was seems to have left the guild but he had several pieces of Tier 4 and I was still beeting him, with him being BM.



Sorry, I am talking ~10%



You are forgetting keeping at least 1 mob CC'd indefinetly, 2 for a short period of time.



Then, might I ask, Why you posted those numbers and start the f-in war in the first place?



Yeah Ok, I am not saying I am better than everybody, I am saying I have put out the most damage out of any specced hunter I have seen/played with to date, and Until I see otherwise I will remain the spec I am and will continue to say that my spec rules.

It's all personal opinion and nothing has said anything otherwise.

Come on, when I out DPS Kithereyna while she is going balls out and pulling aggro like crazy, that might be saying something.

I will realize it when I have been out-dps'd by another hunter.

....

TOOK YOU ******* LONG ENOUGH!!!

I didn't post them to start, the numbers I posted made the point it was useless. The specs are close enough to make them each worthwhile on their own merits thus the difference was negligable. That post I made was WAAAAY down the list and only in response to all the garbage.

Just trying to put things in perspective.

And, just for all you out there:

There is no 'best' spec- period, end of sentence. You can argue this crap all you want but by the time you actually look at the big picture, you're arguing over crumbs.

That should be the end all to the never ending question "What spec is the best for a hunter."





MM is still best tho and I will never respec

Well put Sloshot, I couldn't agree more.

-Azwing

PS. Those numbers are practically meaningless anyway. Lumping a bunch of level 70 hunters without regard for gear is meaningless. Coming up with an average dps for a spec is also meaningless. Median would be a much better statistic for comparing the populations.

For example: How many of a given spec are fresh 70s and sitting in mostly greens? This highlights the flaw in the methodology and why median is a better statistic to use than mean (average). Drawing broad conclusions about one spec being better than the other based on an analysis with questionable methodology is inherently flawed.

Here's a real-world practicle comment on using this study to say one spec is better than another. If I only put out 276.23 dps in a raid (the number listed for MM spec), I might as well not even go. The last two Gruul's Lair raids I have stats for, my dps averages almost twice that figure. So again, the numbers are basically meaningless. They look scientific, but looks are deceiving.



Edited, Oct 22nd 2007 5:02pm by azwing

I have a dream that my poor little hunter will one day post in a forum where she will not be judged by the DPS of her spec but by the skills of her character!

I have a dream!

Actually, Caldone, that's a GREAT idea. I can imagine at least a good handfull of the posters are eligible for the PTR anyways.With four copies between two servers, i've got a feeling this could easily work out. I'll start it off.

Tadakatsu, BE Hunter, PvE PTR server. (BM/MM)

That's right Caldone, I have something to say to you...



...I challenge you to a duel!