Ok.. I love playing with my warrior, but every time i even try to ask for a group, I always get the same answer.. "you tank".
I mean c'mon.. are warrior only for tanking? I don't even think they are good at it.. imoh druids > warriors on tanking.
So am I doomed as a warrior 'cuz i don't want to tank?
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Well, there's three classes that can tank. There are nine classes that can dps. There are four classes that can heal. So, just by looking at the numbers, tanks are in the shortest supply. And in all seriousness, when is the last time you were able to find a healer and a tank easily but had trouble finding dps?
Does that mean you can't dps in a group? Not at all. It just means that you're going to have a harder time finding a group that already has a tank and needs dps, but doesn't mind giving up some form of crowd control or additional healing to take you along (Sap, Sheep, Traps, Seduce/Banish, MC, etc. This is why I love pally tanks, they don't need no stinking CC).
You're not doomed as a warrior, you just have some major work ahead of you. You need to be able to convince people to bring you in as dps, you need to be able to deal that damage without pulling aggro and you need to be ready, willing and able to throw on a shield and start tanking at a moment's notice at all times. Once you make a name for yourself as a good damage dealer that can tank too, that's when you'll be given your chance to shine as a metal plated ball of doom!
Edited, Oct 20th 2007 3:42pm by Wulelendamuwi
Does that mean you can't dps in a group? Not at all. It just means that you're going to have a harder time finding a group that already has a tank and needs dps, but doesn't mind giving up some form of crowd control or additional healing to take you along (Sap, Sheep, Traps, Seduce/Banish, MC, etc. This is why I love pally tanks, they don't need no stinking CC).
You're not doomed as a warrior, you just have some major work ahead of you. You need to be able to convince people to bring you in as dps, you need to be able to deal that damage without pulling aggro and you need to be ready, willing and able to throw on a shield and start tanking at a moment's notice at all times. Once you make a name for yourself as a good damage dealer that can tank too, that's when you'll be given your chance to shine as a metal plated ball of doom!
Edited, Oct 20th 2007 3:42pm by Wulelendamuwi
You're not necessarily doomed as a warrior wanting to be DPS, its just going to be harder to find groups to take you as DPS. I usually find a group that already has a tank and is looking for DPS. Then they find out that I'm a warrior and think tank. I then tell them I'm DPS and normally proceed to be #1. (only because I have better gear than most) Right now my DPS set and my TANK set are almost all Epic's. I prefer to DPS, but if you want to do DPS, I suggest going d/w Fury. Also, what I did was I tanked instances to get the DPS gear that I wanted, then went DPS spec. Granted my PVP gear mostly consists of my PVE Gear, but I still do fairly well with it. I try to LFG's too, asking for a tank and healer and whatnot and I get the response; Need a hunter/lock/mage. Umm...no, I need a tank. Ohhh...aren't you a tank? I swiftly reply that "If I was a tank I'm pretty sure I wouldn't ask for one now would I?" That usually gets them to stop asking. Anyway, just try the LFG thing and look for a group already that needs DPS and has some form of CC. You should be ok if you do that. Other than that, its really hard to find a group that will let a warrior DPS for them. I don't know why my guild let me in as a DPS warrior, but they have. Enough for now...time for lunch. Good luck...check out my helm and go get one today from SM GY Halloween Event!!!
[highjack] Finished my 42nd HH run, no helm 
[/highjack]
Spelling > Me
Edited, Oct 20th 2007 9:34pm by Wulelendamuwi
[/highjack] Spelling > Me
Edited, Oct 20th 2007 9:34pm by Wulelendamuwi
Here's why I think warriors are not sought after as DPS...
1. No threat reduction. Rogues got feint, cats got something, hunters got disengage and feign death, priests got fade...warriors got nothing. And the innate 80% threat in Zerker stance is mainly to negate the 10% difference in melee instead of 30% required for ranged to pull aggro.
2. No real benefit to group besides DPS. Hunters got traps, Shaman got totems and off-heals, priests got group heal and mana regen, etc. But warriors do not bring the off-tank capabilities of a druid (which can DPS at the same time) and do not bring any heal-free CC.
In all honesty, if you dont want to tank, then you're pretty much going to have to do one of the folloing things:
1. Grind to 70 and join a guild with more than enough tanks, but not enough straight DDers.
2. Solo grind.
3. PvP.
1. No threat reduction. Rogues got feint, cats got something, hunters got disengage and feign death, priests got fade...warriors got nothing. And the innate 80% threat in Zerker stance is mainly to negate the 10% difference in melee instead of 30% required for ranged to pull aggro.
2. No real benefit to group besides DPS. Hunters got traps, Shaman got totems and off-heals, priests got group heal and mana regen, etc. But warriors do not bring the off-tank capabilities of a druid (which can DPS at the same time) and do not bring any heal-free CC.
In all honesty, if you dont want to tank, then you're pretty much going to have to do one of the folloing things:
1. Grind to 70 and join a guild with more than enough tanks, but not enough straight DDers.
2. Solo grind.
3. PvP.
BaseWolf wrote:
Ok.. I love playing with my warrior, but every time i even try to ask for a group, I always get the same answer.. "you tank".
I mean c'mon.. are warrior only for tanking? I don't even think they are good at it.. imoh druids > warriors on tanking.
So am I doomed as a warrior 'cuz i don't want to tank?
I mean c'mon.. are warrior only for tanking? I don't even think they are good at it.. imoh druids > warriors on tanking.
So am I doomed as a warrior 'cuz i don't want to tank?
you obv don't know how good warriors are for team dps, what with all the debuffs we can put on the mob and all the threat we can generate in prot spec. druids offer more armor and health, but that comes at the expense of no block, no parry, and threat generation that is not as effective as a prot warrior's.
i myself have come to love tanking more than dps, it's more involved and more exciting than standing in one spot and spamming BT and WW on single targets. i actually have to THINK to tank, to dps i just have to barely be awake. if you want to dps all the time, roll a rogue, otherwise get used to tanking, as it is the warrior's main role and the job he is best at.
Baron von Wulelendamuwi wrote:
And in all seriousness, when is the last time you were able to find a healer and a tank easily but had trouble finding dps?
Edited, Oct 20th 2007 3:42pm by Wulelendamuwi
Edited, Oct 20th 2007 3:42pm by Wulelendamuwi
In all seriousness, Friday night.
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
BaseWolf wrote:
Ok.. I love playing with my warrior, but every time i even try to ask for a group, I always get the same answer.. "you tank".
I mean c'mon.. are warrior only for tanking? I don't even think they are good at it.. imoh druids > warriors on tanking.
So am I doomed as a warrior 'cuz i don't want to tank?
I mean c'mon.. are warrior only for tanking? I don't even think they are good at it.. imoh druids > warriors on tanking.
So am I doomed as a warrior 'cuz i don't want to tank?
you obv don't know how good warriors are for team dps, what with all the debuffs we can put on the mob and all the threat we can generate in prot spec. druids offer more armor and health, but that comes at the expense of no block, no parry, and threat generation that is not as effective as a prot warrior's.
i myself have come to love tanking more than dps, it's more involved and more exciting than standing in one spot and spamming BT and WW on single targets. i actually have to THINK to tank, to dps i just have to barely be awake. if you want to dps all the time, roll a rogue, otherwise get used to tanking, as it is the warrior's main role and the job he is best at.
Same here, I much prefer tanking. I just helped some guildies out by dpsing Shadow labs and it was fun, I did awesome damage, but it didn't compare to the joy of tanking. Funnily enough, the tank we had was a pally in my guild that's treated like a superstar, and he didn't have nearly as smooth a run as I would have if I'd been tanking.
Quote:
2. No real benefit to group besides DPS. Hunters got traps, Shaman got totems and off-heals, priests got group heal and mana regen, etc. But warriors do not bring the off-tank capabilities of a druid (which can DPS at the same time) and do not bring any heal-free CC.
Umm, what? Battle shout (when maxed out like a DPS warrior should, gives other melee dps 380ish AP) is helpful for other melee dpsers, Commanding shout can give upwards of 1300HP or more (when maxed out) thats more than a priest buff or lock's dark pact.
They also serve as an off tank if the MT of the run gets smashed. I know, I did it the other day in a Heroic SP run in my DPS gear. All I did was equip a shield and swapped to my tanking 1h and we didn't wipe. Also, Demo Shout helps greatly and if you have deep wounds and impale you add that extra 4% damage to all party members. (I think melee only). So, I really don't know what you're talking about.
imp tclap is one of the best debuffs in the game for PvE.
imp demo shout 5/5 and curse of recklessness > many other debuffs for PvE. (max AP reduction AND lower mob armor)
imp commanding presence 5/5 for 381 AP (27.2 DPS) from battleshout is one of the best melee dps buffs. (or 1350 HP).
SUNDER! best armor debuff in the game still. Find something equal to 2600 armor penetration on any other class, that affects the whole group/raid!?
We bring a lot of versatility to group, from a DPS point of view even. You can sunder in berserker stance (don't forget that!), but if you stance dance to battle stance every once in a while to refresh tclap you'll make your druid/pali tank much happier, and keep them alive longer.
Edited, Oct 21st 2007 9:20pm by devioususer
imp demo shout 5/5 and curse of recklessness > many other debuffs for PvE. (max AP reduction AND lower mob armor)
imp commanding presence 5/5 for 381 AP (27.2 DPS) from battleshout is one of the best melee dps buffs. (or 1350 HP).
SUNDER! best armor debuff in the game still. Find something equal to 2600 armor penetration on any other class, that affects the whole group/raid!?
We bring a lot of versatility to group, from a DPS point of view even. You can sunder in berserker stance (don't forget that!), but if you stance dance to battle stance every once in a while to refresh tclap you'll make your druid/pali tank much happier, and keep them alive longer.
Edited, Oct 21st 2007 9:20pm by devioususer
Quote:
i myself have come to love tanking more than dps, it's more involved and more exciting than standing in one spot and spamming BT and WW on single targets. i actually have to THINK to tank, to dps i just have to barely be awake. if you want to dps all the time, roll a rogue, otherwise get used to tanking, as it is the warrior's main role and the job he is best at.
I agree
Quote:
a warrior with know(and gear) how can esily out DPS rogues and locks.
sorry to crack your ego a little. with everything equal and specced correctly, warrior's dps < pure dps class like rogue. if and when warrior's dps exceeds those dps from dps class, you can be sure a nerf bat will soon follow. i believe it already happened not too long ago.
topping the damage chart everytime doesnt mean you are the ****. there are a lot more things/variables involved.
redbarrom wrote:
my warrior has bn best dps in every group iv bn in since lvl 45, and yes we dnt have gr8 CC but we have more armor so with a few heals we can off tank and still f*ck stuff up.
a warrior with know(and gear) how can esily out DPS rogues and locks.
a warrior with know(and gear) how can esily out DPS rogues and locks.
lol, no.
Wowish wrote:
Quote:
a warrior with know(and gear) how can esily out DPS rogues and locks.
sorry to crack your ego a little. with everything equal and specced correctly, warrior's dps < pure dps class like rogue. if and when warrior's dps exceeds those dps from dps class, you can be sure a nerf bat will soon follow. i believe it already happened not too long ago.
topping the damage chart everytime doesnt mean you are the sh*t. there are a lot more things/variables involved.
x2
i know rogues have innate threat reduction abilities (feint/vanish), i think locks do also, atm we do not. -threat = +dps.
i could top the dps chart all the time, just by spamming BT/WW/cleave without respect to cc or threat meters. of course, i'd probably get everyone killed 100% of the time, but hey, i topped dps so who cares right o.O dps is also dependent on your target. if you're hitting a lot of single targets (ie arcatraz) or on add duty (BM) then you're going to dps a lot. on group pulls, not being able to spam WW may make your dps suffer a bit if you can't spam slam or HS enough to compensate.
imo a good dps warrior is either #1 or #2 in dps in a 5man, picks up his offtanking mark(s) and holds them without fail while keeping himself alive, and keeps adds off the healer.
Edited, Oct 22nd 2007 1:30pm by fromanthebarbarian
IMO tanking is much more fun than DPS in every MMORPG I've played. But, it's also A LOT harder to do. If you have ADD or you wan't to be watching the football game and eating potato chips at the same time, then tanking is not for you. If you can pay attention then tanking is the most fulfilling roll you can play.
Back to the OP, yes, most the time you will be expected to tank, it's what the wars do in this game. There are wayyyyyyy too many DPS classes in this game to warrant having a DPS'ing warrior in a 5man group, unless said group are friends. That's just my opinion thou, I personally don't invite wars to DPS.
Edited, Oct 22nd 2007 4:26pm by givingitatry
Back to the OP, yes, most the time you will be expected to tank, it's what the wars do in this game. There are wayyyyyyy too many DPS classes in this game to warrant having a DPS'ing warrior in a 5man group, unless said group are friends. That's just my opinion thou, I personally don't invite wars to DPS.
Edited, Oct 22nd 2007 4:26pm by givingitatry
givingitatry wrote:
There are wayyyyyyy too many DPS classes in this game to warrant having a DPS'ing warrior in a 5man group, unless said group are friends. That's just my opinion thou, I personally don't invite wars to DPS.
Edited, Oct 22nd 2007 4:26pm by givingitatry
Edited, Oct 22nd 2007 4:26pm by givingitatry
as stated by devious earlier, imp tclap/imp demo shout/sunders/battle shout/commanding shout/offtanking are reasons that most people forget when they consider a warrior to fill a dps slot. i know that i myself consider CC to be more important, but a good warrior tank should be able to hold 4 targets at once anyway; i've seen prot pallies hold 5 targets without a problem... not sure about how many targets druid tanks can hold though.
on a side note, CC is more important if:
1) your dps cannot burn targets down fast enough
2) your healer has trouble keeping your tank alive
3) your tank sucks.
personally, you can throw me into slabs with just a mage for CC and i'll do just fine, you could give me two more warriors to dps for all i care.
Quote:
SICK OF TANKING!!!
Then dont :)
On more serious thoughts I think its a matter of what you like and dont like to do. For example I know a lot of people that hate tanking, but I just LOVE it, I think its pretty challenging and that people are very thankful when a big strong orc comes and saves them, like some kind of ugly superhero.
Call me crazy, but tanking FTW
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