Hi, I'm a new player who has just got my first character (a dwarf priest) up to level 19.
Apologies if this sort of question has been covered before and thanks in advance for any guidance you can give.
I have been in the Deadmines twice, the first time went really well and the group i was in completed all their objectives. During this time i concentrated most of my heals on the tank (a level 23 warrior) and put shield and healed other players as much as i could. The warrior seemed to get all the aggro and take most damage so i kept him alive and no one died. Average level of group was about 20.
Second time i went in, the tank was a level 20 warrior and there were two hunters and a warlock all about level 19. One of the hunters was taking as much damage as the tank and i tried to heal them both. The hunter kept yelling "noob heal me" and all that sort of nonsense and in the end the tank died as i was torn between keeping the hunter alive and the tank, and it all went down hill from there.
In short, my question is: Should i concentrate on keeping the tank alive at the expense of other party members and was the hunter justified in his noob comments?
Edited, Oct 20th 2007 7:57am by delmejohn
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Noob question: who do I heal most in a groupFollow
Group play 101:
Common group setup:
1x Tank (Warrior, Paladin or Druid)
1x Healer (Priest, Paladin, Druid or Shaman)
3x DPS (everyone else)
Common group behaviour:
1.) The Tank is the ONLY person in the group who should be taking direct hits from the enemies. The Tank should keep aggro (meaning the monsters should concentrate on him) at all times to allow for the Healer and DPS crew to do their job.
2.) The DPS crew should manage their outgoing damage so as to not pull aggro from the Tank. This is either done by activating certain threat-reducing abilities/spells, or by simply NOT attacking. A high overall outgoing DPS does not always = win.
3.) The Healer is a vital part of any group and as such has a certain amount of power as well. If someone's doing something which is making the Healer's job unnecessarily difficult, the Healer should let that person know and tell him to stop fooling around.
4.) Name-calling is never acceptable. If you are unable to resolve any complications that might arise in a civilized and friendly manner, the offensive part of the debate is to be excluded from the group - permanently.
In other words: The Tank should tank, the Healer should heal and the DPS crew should concentrate on NOT getting aggro. If someone starts calling anyone names, that person should get the boot so fast he'd get kicked off the server.
Edit: I realized that I didn't answer your question directly. In short the only person in a group you should really worry about is yourself and the Tank. Well, I guess that's two. Sometimes a DPS player will pull aggro and obviously you should throw him a heal, but don't focus all out on him. A group can survive with one DPS player dead, but it can't survive if the Tank dies.
Edited, Oct 20th 2007 2:41pm by Mazra
Common group setup:
1x Tank (Warrior, Paladin or Druid)
1x Healer (Priest, Paladin, Druid or Shaman)
3x DPS (everyone else)
Common group behaviour:
1.) The Tank is the ONLY person in the group who should be taking direct hits from the enemies. The Tank should keep aggro (meaning the monsters should concentrate on him) at all times to allow for the Healer and DPS crew to do their job.
2.) The DPS crew should manage their outgoing damage so as to not pull aggro from the Tank. This is either done by activating certain threat-reducing abilities/spells, or by simply NOT attacking. A high overall outgoing DPS does not always = win.
3.) The Healer is a vital part of any group and as such has a certain amount of power as well. If someone's doing something which is making the Healer's job unnecessarily difficult, the Healer should let that person know and tell him to stop fooling around.
4.) Name-calling is never acceptable. If you are unable to resolve any complications that might arise in a civilized and friendly manner, the offensive part of the debate is to be excluded from the group - permanently.
In other words: The Tank should tank, the Healer should heal and the DPS crew should concentrate on NOT getting aggro. If someone starts calling anyone names, that person should get the boot so fast he'd get kicked off the server.
Edit: I realized that I didn't answer your question directly. In short the only person in a group you should really worry about is yourself and the Tank. Well, I guess that's two. Sometimes a DPS player will pull aggro and obviously you should throw him a heal, but don't focus all out on him. A group can survive with one DPS player dead, but it can't survive if the Tank dies.
Edited, Oct 20th 2007 2:41pm by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault. If the healer dies, it's the tanks's fault. If DPS dies, it's his/her own fault.
It;s the tank's job to keep and control aggro and it's the dps's job to keep themselves out of harm's way. Next time, let the aggroing dpser die. That tends to be the best way to teach.
Or (if you are not the group leader) threaten to leave the party if they're really bothering you and talking isn't helping. The party needs a healer *way* more than a random dps slot.
It;s the tank's job to keep and control aggro and it's the dps's job to keep themselves out of harm's way. Next time, let the aggroing dpser die. That tends to be the best way to teach.
Or (if you are not the group leader) threaten to leave the party if they're really bothering you and talking isn't helping. The party needs a healer *way* more than a random dps slot.
The hunters pet holds prime importance.
No really, that NE hunter there told me..no wiat there are like 12 of them there. erm...damn they all look so much alike!!
But seriously. When your the main healer the tank is your priority. Throw in heals on the dps if they have trouble. Best yet, get a off healer for them. The off tank might need your help too. Keep your low mana heals for the others.
We can say what we want but you should start to go by your judgement [which will sharpen as you keep playing and experience new things]. You'll find know this isnt a hard and fast rule.
Its like a fire mage, sure they specialise on their fire spells, but an occasional ice spell and arcane blast helps in certain situations.
No really, that NE hunter there told me..no wiat there are like 12 of them there. erm...damn they all look so much alike!!
But seriously. When your the main healer the tank is your priority. Throw in heals on the dps if they have trouble. Best yet, get a off healer for them. The off tank might need your help too. Keep your low mana heals for the others.
We can say what we want but you should start to go by your judgement [which will sharpen as you keep playing and experience new things]. You'll find know this isnt a hard and fast rule.
Its like a fire mage, sure they specialise on their fire spells, but an occasional ice spell and arcane blast helps in certain situations.
Quote:
If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault. If the healer dies, it's the tanks's fault. If DPS dies, it's his/her own fault.
This is a very good way of putting it. If the DPS has aggro, let them die. When they cry about not getting heals, point out that your priority is the tank and will, for the most part, not be healing other people. Once they die a few more times, they'll get the idea and stop doing it. Your priorities for healing are the tank and yourself, and everyone else a distance third.
There are exceptions, especially as you get higher levels and get people who are exceptionally good at their class and can fulfill other roles. Heroic Shadow Labs really brings this out :P Hunter trapping one and possibly kiting one, rogue stunlocking another, me MC'ing one and tanking the sapped one once it breaks, and the tank holding 2-3 others. In that situation, each person is incredibly important, because if anyone dies the rest will follow. Fortunately, these kind of circumstances are basically non-existent until you get much, much higher levels.
Your primary concern is the tank.
You are correct that getting too involved healing everyone can cause a wipe. On the other hand, you don't want people dieing when they don't have to. It is a balancing act.
Stay focused on the tank, but use renews to help the other party members. They are instant cast and only take only a moment.
When you get prayer of healing (I believe at level 30), you can use it to give a heal to the entire group (useful for aoe damage). Again, it's always a balance between the time it takes to cast something, how much mana it takes, the benefit it gives, and not losing the tank. Even once you have prayer of healing, you may not have time to cast it (back to renew).
Being a priest takes concentration, planing, and timing. Things wont always turn out the way you hope. A tank with poor gear and skills can doom a group, as can any group member who doesn't play well. You can only compensate for so much.
Normally, when things are going well, being a priest is very gratifying.
Edited, Oct 30th 2007 10:28pm by dadanox
You are correct that getting too involved healing everyone can cause a wipe. On the other hand, you don't want people dieing when they don't have to. It is a balancing act.
Stay focused on the tank, but use renews to help the other party members. They are instant cast and only take only a moment.
When you get prayer of healing (I believe at level 30), you can use it to give a heal to the entire group (useful for aoe damage). Again, it's always a balance between the time it takes to cast something, how much mana it takes, the benefit it gives, and not losing the tank. Even once you have prayer of healing, you may not have time to cast it (back to renew).
Being a priest takes concentration, planing, and timing. Things wont always turn out the way you hope. A tank with poor gear and skills can doom a group, as can any group member who doesn't play well. You can only compensate for so much.
Normally, when things are going well, being a priest is very gratifying.
Edited, Oct 30th 2007 10:28pm by dadanox
Quote:
If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault. If the healer dies, it's the tanks's fault. If DPS dies, it's his/her own fault.
Quote:
This is a very good way of putting it.
The exception is if you're a druid, then it's *all* your fault XD
I disagree with the absolutist statements that come up in threads like these.
A healer definitely heals the tank the most, and if there's any group member who has required more healing than the tank, that DPS has been doing something wrong.
However, if there is aggro on the DPS, bubble and renew or bubble and flash heal it back up. It does not matter that the DPS drew aggro from the tank, your group will be more successful if the fight is shorter, and the fights are shorter if all your DPS is still alive.
If both the tank and the hunter there were taking equal amounts of damage and it was hard for you to keep up healing both of them, then yes, the hunter was being a bad player, and in that case it would be better for you to have let the hunter die, because the tank is more important than one of three DPS.
However, as a healer, I find that there is not a single instance run where the only person who took damage was the tank. Pats can sneak up from behind, someone may turn the corner and accidentally find oneself in front of the boss, a good player may have misjudged his aggro radius, or there were several mobs and the tank did not happen to get his aggro up enough on each and every one. There are of course AoE attacks which harm everyone, and mobs and bosses that do periodic aggro dumps and attack someone else than the taunt. If the tank is feared, someone else will be attacked.
Try as hard as you can to keep everyone alive, not only just the tank exclusively. It's not always the DPS's fault, or it's not always easily avoidable. As a priest, you can substitute one of your Greater Heals with a Prayer of Healing when you see a rogue who took damage as well as your tank. There are 5 green bars there, not just one.
In your case specifically, that hunter was being an idiot. He was overDPSing and blaming you for his mistakes. He should stop attacking if he's getting aggro, not just complaining that he's taking damage.
Keeping the tank alive at the expense of other party members is favorable, but only in situations where you MUST choose. If you can heal someone else, do it. A fight is much shorter if you keep the mage alive until the tank can regain aggro, instead of letting the mage die because "it was his fault he got aggro".
A healer definitely heals the tank the most, and if there's any group member who has required more healing than the tank, that DPS has been doing something wrong.
However, if there is aggro on the DPS, bubble and renew or bubble and flash heal it back up. It does not matter that the DPS drew aggro from the tank, your group will be more successful if the fight is shorter, and the fights are shorter if all your DPS is still alive.
If both the tank and the hunter there were taking equal amounts of damage and it was hard for you to keep up healing both of them, then yes, the hunter was being a bad player, and in that case it would be better for you to have let the hunter die, because the tank is more important than one of three DPS.
However, as a healer, I find that there is not a single instance run where the only person who took damage was the tank. Pats can sneak up from behind, someone may turn the corner and accidentally find oneself in front of the boss, a good player may have misjudged his aggro radius, or there were several mobs and the tank did not happen to get his aggro up enough on each and every one. There are of course AoE attacks which harm everyone, and mobs and bosses that do periodic aggro dumps and attack someone else than the taunt. If the tank is feared, someone else will be attacked.
Try as hard as you can to keep everyone alive, not only just the tank exclusively. It's not always the DPS's fault, or it's not always easily avoidable. As a priest, you can substitute one of your Greater Heals with a Prayer of Healing when you see a rogue who took damage as well as your tank. There are 5 green bars there, not just one.
In your case specifically, that hunter was being an idiot. He was overDPSing and blaming you for his mistakes. He should stop attacking if he's getting aggro, not just complaining that he's taking damage.
Keeping the tank alive at the expense of other party members is favorable, but only in situations where you MUST choose. If you can heal someone else, do it. A fight is much shorter if you keep the mage alive until the tank can regain aggro, instead of letting the mage die because "it was his fault he got aggro".
In general, I'd agree with the comments here. Your tank should be the one taking damage. If a DPS was constantly stealing aggro then yelling at either you or the tank, I'd consider booting him.
There are a few exceptions to the "if a DPS steals aggro, it's THEIR fault" rule though. The chief one: if the tank can't keep hate on all mobs, and one starts chewing on the healer, quite a few DPS classes might step in on that mob and "steal" hate so that the healer can keep healing. (Note: this is mainly an issue with crappy tanks, but there are a few out there).
My rogue has tanked quite a few caster mobs ... Kick + Stuns + low Melee damage incoming + Evasion and a renew is usually enough. And rogue is hardly ideal for this -- I could easily see a hunter, warrior, warlock, or shaman holding an extra mob. In that case, you'd do yourself a favor to toss them a heal or two.
The trick, of course, is to make sure they only do this when it's actually necessary.
There are a few exceptions to the "if a DPS steals aggro, it's THEIR fault" rule though. The chief one: if the tank can't keep hate on all mobs, and one starts chewing on the healer, quite a few DPS classes might step in on that mob and "steal" hate so that the healer can keep healing. (Note: this is mainly an issue with crappy tanks, but there are a few out there).
My rogue has tanked quite a few caster mobs ... Kick + Stuns + low Melee damage incoming + Evasion and a renew is usually enough. And rogue is hardly ideal for this -- I could easily see a hunter, warrior, warlock, or shaman holding an extra mob. In that case, you'd do yourself a favor to toss them a heal or two.
The trick, of course, is to make sure they only do this when it's actually necessary.
9 posts
I took all your advice on board and have just completed another run of the Deadmines this time with much better results. I made sure i knew who the tank was, and so did everyone else, and was able to keep him alive whilst using renews on the dps players if they got in trouble. I particularly found the group play 101 very handy.
Thanks to everyone for their advice.
Thanks to everyone for their advice.
I'm glad your last DM run was more fun. Your question has already been answered quite well.
Just out of curiosity though, I'm wondering where that hunter's pet was when he was, apparently, meleeing and shouting at you for heals. There's a slang term for that kind of hunter. ;)
Sometimes in a low level instance a tank won't have all his tricks for grabbing and keeping aggro yet. If the tank can't get the aggro back off a hunter, his pet can. Ditto for his pet pulling aggro off you (or other clothies) in an emergency. It's pretty darned easy to turn growl back on for a minute and turn it back off again when the fight is over. Pets are also great for basic crowd control, to send in to keep a mob busy until the rest of you can get to it.
So I guess I'd just add that if you ever encounter a hunter who does use his pet properly, as the healer don't neglect that pet. If it's taking hits throw it a Renew here and there. And include it in your Power Word: Fortitude rotation. Hunters can heal their own pets as well, but it's not a bad idea to keep them on your radar. I've got 2 hunters in my static group and their pets have saved us from a wipe more than once.
Just out of curiosity though, I'm wondering where that hunter's pet was when he was, apparently, meleeing and shouting at you for heals. There's a slang term for that kind of hunter. ;)
Sometimes in a low level instance a tank won't have all his tricks for grabbing and keeping aggro yet. If the tank can't get the aggro back off a hunter, his pet can. Ditto for his pet pulling aggro off you (or other clothies) in an emergency. It's pretty darned easy to turn growl back on for a minute and turn it back off again when the fight is over. Pets are also great for basic crowd control, to send in to keep a mob busy until the rest of you can get to it.
So I guess I'd just add that if you ever encounter a hunter who does use his pet properly, as the healer don't neglect that pet. If it's taking hits throw it a Renew here and there. And include it in your Power Word: Fortitude rotation. Hunters can heal their own pets as well, but it's not a bad idea to keep them on your radar. I've got 2 hunters in my static group and their pets have saved us from a wipe more than once.
Raglu wrote:
Keeping the tank alive at the expense of other party members is favorable, but only in situations where you MUST choose. If you can heal someone else, do it. A fight is much shorter if you keep the mage alive until the tank can regain aggro, instead of letting the mage die because "it was his fault he got aggro".
I, too, distrust absolute statements, Raglu, so I'm going to pick at yours. :)
There are times when it is a bad idea to heal DPS that has stolen aggro, and that's when you're close to them on the threat list. If the DPS'r dies, or drops aggro with Feign Death/Feint/Vanish/Shatter Soul, or if your heals push you over their threat, the mob will come after *you*. Far better that a group loses one of three DPS than their only healer.
This situation is a good time to pop Fade before you heal, or to get some distance and the tank between you and the DPS before you heal.
My simple absolutist answer to your question is.
I heal anyone who keeps me alive.
Sometimes I'll heal the dps over the tank if keeping the dps means one less mob on you and a possible wipe.
if the tank dies it's a probable wipe.
if you die it's a definite wipe (if no other healers)
Sometimes the tank is not quite as good as specficic dps players. I've watched a well played rogue/hunters keep aggro and survive near wipe situations because I healed him once when the tank would have pretty much put me way into the oom range if I chose him. often through insufficient hate generation and not being able to create as much hate on the mob as I would generate though my healing of him. (if I choose to heal ONLY HIM.) You often see such people when it's noobies playing. while a well played (other class) would pretty much breeze though the instance with a few well placed heals on them. They fall into the category of pumkins. moonkins who think they can tank.
I heal anyone who keeps me alive.
Sometimes I'll heal the dps over the tank if keeping the dps means one less mob on you and a possible wipe.
if the tank dies it's a probable wipe.
if you die it's a definite wipe (if no other healers)
Sometimes the tank is not quite as good as specficic dps players. I've watched a well played rogue/hunters keep aggro and survive near wipe situations because I healed him once when the tank would have pretty much put me way into the oom range if I chose him. often through insufficient hate generation and not being able to create as much hate on the mob as I would generate though my healing of him. (if I choose to heal ONLY HIM.) You often see such people when it's noobies playing. while a well played (other class) would pretty much breeze though the instance with a few well placed heals on them. They fall into the category of pumkins. moonkins who think they can tank.
For me, it all depends on the situation. I try never to go into a situation with a "I won't heal anyone but the tank" attitude, although a few times it HAS come to that.
Yes, the tank SHOULD be the only one taking damage, but it doesn't always work that way for a number of reasons. In the OP's case I definitely agree that the hunter was an idiot. What was his pet doing while he was taking all this damage? Did he stop/slow down attacking when he got aggro? From the sounds of it, he needed to learn to play HIS class LONG before calling you a noob. Don't pay any attention to people like that.
In that case, I definitely would have let the hunter die in favor of keeping the tank alive. Mainly because you haven't said that the tank wasn't doing what he needed to. The hunter was the one causing the aggrivation. And sometimes it's the ONLY way to show people that what they're doing is wrong.
In other cases, where one of the dps pulls aggro "accidentally" heal them if you have the mana/time and if the tank is in good shape, and of course, if YOU are not getting hit. Most dps classes have tricks to survive for a minute or two until you can get to them. Especially at the higher levels. Also, once you get a little higher in levels, you'll find that most dps classes (if they're good players) EXPECT that you'll be concentrating on keeping the tank alive. When I play my mage, if I pull aggro in an instance and I get a heal I consider it a bonus.
Also, as a previous poster said, as the healer of the group, you do have SOME authority. If someone is really "out of line" and constantly causing grief, see if you can get the leader (if it's not you) to boot him/her. In many cases pre TBC instances, a good group of four will beat a group of 5 with an idiot any day!
Yes, the tank SHOULD be the only one taking damage, but it doesn't always work that way for a number of reasons. In the OP's case I definitely agree that the hunter was an idiot. What was his pet doing while he was taking all this damage? Did he stop/slow down attacking when he got aggro? From the sounds of it, he needed to learn to play HIS class LONG before calling you a noob. Don't pay any attention to people like that.
In that case, I definitely would have let the hunter die in favor of keeping the tank alive. Mainly because you haven't said that the tank wasn't doing what he needed to. The hunter was the one causing the aggrivation. And sometimes it's the ONLY way to show people that what they're doing is wrong.
In other cases, where one of the dps pulls aggro "accidentally" heal them if you have the mana/time and if the tank is in good shape, and of course, if YOU are not getting hit. Most dps classes have tricks to survive for a minute or two until you can get to them. Especially at the higher levels. Also, once you get a little higher in levels, you'll find that most dps classes (if they're good players) EXPECT that you'll be concentrating on keeping the tank alive. When I play my mage, if I pull aggro in an instance and I get a heal I consider it a bonus.
Also, as a previous poster said, as the healer of the group, you do have SOME authority. If someone is really "out of line" and constantly causing grief, see if you can get the leader (if it's not you) to boot him/her. In many cases pre TBC instances, a good group of four will beat a group of 5 with an idiot any day!
At lower levels you will find alot of really bad tanks - they can't hold aggro and don't bother to wait for your mana breaks, and some stupid players who insults others, runs on ahead by themselves, rolls greed on everything or leaves half way through the instance because their mum said it was bed time. Consider it all good learning experience, you'll never have more of a healing challenge! That said, I keep a black list. Things gradually improve as you get higher level (though not always). You also learn to realise when you couldn't have saved the group or individual players, and when you know you could've saved them you don't let it happen again. Delmejohn, it sounds like you were doing as well as you could given the situation, it will take time to learn your role as it will take time for that cheeky noob hunter who didn't understand aggro management to learn his.
I've never played an instance where the tank holds aggro all the time. Even with the best tanks there are situations where it is impossible for them to hold the aggro all the time. When you see a situation where AoE is useful and you have a mage, get a shield on them quick and keep a close eye on their health bar too.
I've never played an instance where the tank holds aggro all the time. Even with the best tanks there are situations where it is impossible for them to hold the aggro all the time. When you see a situation where AoE is useful and you have a mage, get a shield on them quick and keep a close eye on their health bar too.
emmitsvenson wrote:
Raglu wrote:
If you can heal someone else, do it.
I, too, distrust absolute statements, Raglu, so I'm going to pick at yours. :)
Touche. ;P
Quote:
My simple absolutist answer to your question is.
I heal anyone who keeps me alive.
I heal anyone who keeps me alive.
Apologies if you felt it was addressed to you, because it was not absolute if that was your statement. I was addressing those who claimed that healer should only heal tank, and let other people die.
That statement, and
Quote:
For me, it all depends on the situation. I try never to go into a situation with a "I won't heal anyone but the tank" attitude, although a few times it HAS come to that.
Yes, the tank SHOULD be the only one taking damage, but it doesn't always work that way for a number of reasons.
Yes, the tank SHOULD be the only one taking damage, but it doesn't always work that way for a number of reasons.
are much more rational answers, I feel.
Scholar
16 posts
I built a macro I titled 'PuG' and it reads:
/p Okay here's how this works. If tank dies, it's my fault, if I die, it's tank's fault, and if anyone else dies, it's their fault.
Granted, it's already been said in this thread, but it never fails to generate 3 or 4 'LOL's. And everyone seems to run with a closer eye on their aggro afterwards. Of course, I agree with Raglu, I'll still heal party members who require it, but at the end of the run 75-85% of my healing will have been on the tank.
Then before we all hearth, I key my other macro:
/p Great tanking, dude!
Tanks n healers are like QBs and Tight Ends, Point Guards and Centers, or Setters and Middle Blockers. Keep the tank happy and you'll always have a Friends List full of tanks who'll PuG for you.
/p Okay here's how this works. If tank dies, it's my fault, if I die, it's tank's fault, and if anyone else dies, it's their fault.
Granted, it's already been said in this thread, but it never fails to generate 3 or 4 'LOL's. And everyone seems to run with a closer eye on their aggro afterwards. Of course, I agree with Raglu, I'll still heal party members who require it, but at the end of the run 75-85% of my healing will have been on the tank.
Then before we all hearth, I key my other macro:
/p Great tanking, dude!
Tanks n healers are like QBs and Tight Ends, Point Guards and Centers, or Setters and Middle Blockers. Keep the tank happy and you'll always have a Friends List full of tanks who'll PuG for you.
27 posts
i would like to add to this as a dps and a cc, as a mage my self i do find some points where a heal on me becomes a group saver. two such moments are just after a mage sheep’s keep an eye on the mages hp it very rear that the tank pick up all the other mobs up in time and now that im doing the outland dungeons i will only take 2 or 3 hit before i die and with me dead there if know one keeping that mob out of the fight, the other time is when i am tanking a caster while the main tank is holding the rest so don’t just heal the tank all of the time some group members are doing more than just dpsing but if the tank and me are in trouble i will always want the tank to be healed 1st it just makes more sense.
Quote:
I built a macro I titled 'PuG' and it reads:
/p Okay here's how this works. If tank dies, it's my fault, if I die, it's tank's fault, and if anyone else dies, it's their fault.
/p Okay here's how this works. If tank dies, it's my fault, if I die, it's tank's fault, and if anyone else dies, it's their fault.
Ostrakanos, I'm so gonna steal your macro...
As a lvl 40 draeni spriest, I have the extra HOT spell, which i save for the DPS, renew for the DPS, flash and main heals for me and the tank. Bubble for anybody in the "oh sh*t" moment.
Xenexia. When you reach outlands you're so going to love prayer of mending.
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