Evenin' Druids.
I spent alot of time in the sticky, on WoWwiki and quickly scanned the first two pages on this forum, yet couldn't really find what I was after. Hmm, I may have started in the wrong end of this. Let me give you a little bit of background first.
I am the Hunter Classleader in a guild that has pretty much been around since Release. We never really took a hardcore stance on Raiding, but we took things more casual-like. However, this has resulted in a rather nasty predicament. We are struggling on Gruul. Karazhan is pretty much on farm status, but Gruul himself is being a *****. This has led to our Druid Classleader pretty much losing interest, and he left WoW behind for a few months. None of the Druids in our raidgroup are capable of being a Classleader, and thus the rest of us are trying to fill in as best we can. It has worked nicely, up until now.
We have decided to try letting Balance Druids join. As far as our fuzzy knowledge on the matter has gathered, a Balance Druid could help out doing DPS while still be able to Offheal/Raidheal should the rest of the Healers prove to be less than adequate. But here's the kicker: We have no idea what a Balance Druid should be capable of. We have experienced Druid tanks, who knows their stats inside and out, and our Druid healers are second to none. But none of them was much help in ascertaining the requirements we should put up for a Balance Druid.
So, I decided to turn to Allakhazam, as I have done so many times when my own knowledge of Hunters have proven to be less than perfect. I need your help. Or more to the point, my guild needs your help.
What is the recommended stats for a Balance Druid in a Karazhan/Gruul raid? How much Spelldamage is needed? Do Balance Druids thrive on Spirit like a Resto Druid, or do they focus on Intellect and mp5? Do they have a Stamina requirement? Is it okay for a Balance Druid to wear predominantly Cloth, or should they be wearing Leather?
Wherever I look online, I find a veritable cornucopia of nothing, when it comes to Balance Druid information. I hope there are experienced fat birdies around these boards, that could help gather some of this information here.
NorthAI
Stand-in Classleader for a different Class while still being Classleader for the same Class. Now that's something to put on a business card.
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Balance - Stat requirementsFollow
Something along -700+dmg
-100 spell hit
-100 mp5
-7-8k mana.
-15-20% crit.
The order matters.
-100 spell hit
-100 mp5
-7-8k mana.
-15-20% crit.
The order matters.
Thanks. The Crit chance, is that with or without the Moonkin buff?
The crit chance doesn't matter that much, because of that I put 15-20%, it will just make the damage spiky.
Something along 20% with Moonkin is enough, but you know, you will find people with higher spell dmg and lower crit, or mp5 low but with big spirit etc, those stats at last are relative beetwenn each other.
P.S. Only spell hit is kinda basic and it should not be traded with other stats.
Edited, Oct 19th 2007 7:34am by EtherealSin
Something along 20% with Moonkin is enough, but you know, you will find people with higher spell dmg and lower crit, or mp5 low but with big spirit etc, those stats at last are relative beetwenn each other.
P.S. Only spell hit is kinda basic and it should not be traded with other stats.
Edited, Oct 19th 2007 7:34am by EtherealSin
Allright, thanks alot. I will inform all the other Officers in my guild, and this will help out immensely when it comes to evaluating Raid Group applications. Heh, I really did strike a Goldmine when I first stumbled upon the Allakhazam Classforums.
NorthAI the Hand wrote:
Allright, thanks alot. I will inform all the other Officers in my guild, and this will help out immensely when it comes to evaluating Raid Group applications. Heh, I really did strike a Goldmine when I first stumbled upon the Allakhazam Classforums.
MY goldmine! Get out! Get out!
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Just a few more tidbits of info, feel free to disagree and/or discuss:
Depending on the build, Spirit is not very important, unless they grabbed Intensity in the Resto tree. On the other hand, Intellect doubles in value as it not only increases the Druid's mana pool, but with the Dreamstate talent it also gives free Mp5. Spirit would be nice if they Innervate themselves, but it can usually be spent better on a healer.
For the rest, the stats given seem to make sense. I'm not too good with caster stats, but they should be roughly those of a Mage. Just enough +SpellHit to avoid missing too often while not having so much that it's a waste. (Much like melee +Hit)
As for the Stamina and Armor requirement, here's my take: Armor matters very little in a raid context. Only the tank should be taking physical hits so if the Druid chooses cloth for the superior caster stats, it's just fine. (And perhaps better in a PvE-only context) For health, however, I would advise to have at least 6k health or so since some bosses have AoE's and randomly-targeted attacks that can damage anyone. I suppose these two points apply to all classes, though. (Except tanks, obviously)
Depending on the build, Spirit is not very important, unless they grabbed Intensity in the Resto tree. On the other hand, Intellect doubles in value as it not only increases the Druid's mana pool, but with the Dreamstate talent it also gives free Mp5. Spirit would be nice if they Innervate themselves, but it can usually be spent better on a healer.
For the rest, the stats given seem to make sense. I'm not too good with caster stats, but they should be roughly those of a Mage. Just enough +SpellHit to avoid missing too often while not having so much that it's a waste. (Much like melee +Hit)
As for the Stamina and Armor requirement, here's my take: Armor matters very little in a raid context. Only the tank should be taking physical hits so if the Druid chooses cloth for the superior caster stats, it's just fine. (And perhaps better in a PvE-only context) For health, however, I would advise to have at least 6k health or so since some bosses have AoE's and randomly-targeted attacks that can damage anyone. I suppose these two points apply to all classes, though. (Except tanks, obviously)
Lord Mazra wrote:
MY goldmine! Get out! Get out!
You will be assimilated! The corruption of your domain has now begun, and as it was on the Hunter boards, so shall it be in your lands. Tremble Mortal! For your Doom has come!
Just dump some chocolate pudding over in the Hunter forums, maz. Should keep him busy for a while.
While we're still in Kara, in that raid we find the moonkin to be invaluable. (I'm Feral tank, my wife's one of the regular moonkin.) They are extremely handy, and being able to pop out, battle-rez, tranquility and still lay the beatdown is just gravy. She's well geared, but hovers around +700 spell damage, and 9k mana. She tops the damage charts regularily.
The one problem we've found with her is that she has no agro dump. Because of that she really has to pace herself, and unlike a mage doesn't want a lot of crits in raid. Too many damage spikes makes agro a pita. Focus on spell dam, +hit and Int for the mana pool.
Her survivability is good by form (ie. She can take the odd hit way better than a clothie and even some pallies.)although my wife has a talent for corpse runs that is legendary. Makes for a good AOE down of trash, as the tanks can have a few more seconds to hold agro on a large pack which would otherwise down one of our mages. (They AOE too, but let the featherbutt go first for initial agro.)
My 2cp.
The one problem we've found with her is that she has no agro dump. Because of that she really has to pace herself, and unlike a mage doesn't want a lot of crits in raid. Too many damage spikes makes agro a pita. Focus on spell dam, +hit and Int for the mana pool.
Her survivability is good by form (ie. She can take the odd hit way better than a clothie and even some pallies.)although my wife has a talent for corpse runs that is legendary. Makes for a good AOE down of trash, as the tanks can have a few more seconds to hold agro on a large pack which would otherwise down one of our mages. (They AOE too, but let the featherbutt go first for initial agro.)
My 2cp.
I am no expert on the Balance tree of the druid, but I did have some fun with it. I'll post you the numbers I had, in caster, unbuffed, with my pre Kara gear(except the t4 helm), this should give you a rough estimation on what is possible, notice I am a tribal leatherworker, and therefore have the set.
~800 spell damage.
~19.5% crit rate.
~5.5% hit rate.
~7200 health.
~8200 mana(I think I'm a bit off here, can't say for sure).
~9000 armor.
~230 mana per 5 while not casting.
90 mana per 5 while casting.
The gloves I had weren't enchanted, so you can add a small amount to whichever number you want according to the enchant you choose.
With only starfire spam, unbuffed, I could reach about 800 DPS I think, not 100% sure, mana was an issue, even if I did not use moonfire, on fights that last longer than 3 minutes, I had trouble keeping up without a shadow priest or use my innervate on me.
The aura is espacially useful for Destruction Warlocks, Fire/Frost mages, Elemental Shamans and Holy Paladins.
Again, I have no experience in Gruul, as our guild only runs Kara, but I hope the numbers I listed gave you a rough estimation on what to expect, that was, though, pretty much the best gear I could achieve pre Kara, and Kara is very unfriendly (gearwise) to Druids that are not Restoration specced, pretty much only generic caster gear and the tier 4 set.
Have a nice day, and good luck in Gruul, tell me how it goes,
Yuval R.
~800 spell damage.
~19.5% crit rate.
~5.5% hit rate.
~7200 health.
~8200 mana(I think I'm a bit off here, can't say for sure).
~9000 armor.
~230 mana per 5 while not casting.
90 mana per 5 while casting.
The gloves I had weren't enchanted, so you can add a small amount to whichever number you want according to the enchant you choose.
With only starfire spam, unbuffed, I could reach about 800 DPS I think, not 100% sure, mana was an issue, even if I did not use moonfire, on fights that last longer than 3 minutes, I had trouble keeping up without a shadow priest or use my innervate on me.
The aura is espacially useful for Destruction Warlocks, Fire/Frost mages, Elemental Shamans and Holy Paladins.
Again, I have no experience in Gruul, as our guild only runs Kara, but I hope the numbers I listed gave you a rough estimation on what to expect, that was, though, pretty much the best gear I could achieve pre Kara, and Kara is very unfriendly (gearwise) to Druids that are not Restoration specced, pretty much only generic caster gear and the tier 4 set.
Have a nice day, and good luck in Gruul, tell me how it goes,
Yuval R.
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