Defeating Hunters at lower levels?Follow

If they are BM, not really. You could try CoEx on them and try to get out of range while the Bestial Wrath wears off(pet goes red, neither of them can be feared), not sure if they have this at 40 or not, but if they don't, and your having trouble now, just expect it get worse. BM Hunters and Rogues are the warlock killers, just get used to it, that's all you can really do. AFAIK anyway, and I have tried multiple tactics dueling against my g/f, she's a hunter, nothing seems to work that doesn;t result in her not dieing until after I'm dead.

is it possible to seduce the hunter, fear/siphon life the pet, shadowbolt the hunter, reseduce him, shadowbolt him again or deathcoil or something, then dot and drain and maybe fear the pet again, something like that involving seducing and blasting and reseducing with the pet feared. i haven't really tried this cuz in the BGs you dont really have time to cast a shadowbolt cuz there's usually 3 other hunters shooting you too

Wait until they have the ability to stun-lock you so bad you can't even get off an Instant Cast Howl of Terror, and then if you do, they just Cloak of Shadows out of it and stun lock you again.

OveliaLethon has outlined why i actually think BM hunters get easier to beat as you get higher in level...affliction gains iHoT and dark pact while demo gains soul link, etc. With that said, none of those talents are available at level 42 (OP's current level). Not meaning to raise a fuss, just want to keep things in perspective...

I'm still in shock that Blizzard gave hunters a silencing shot.

First, you just got Death Coil. You need to have a sense of when to use it. Try not to waste it. On a BM hunter in the 40s, he won't have beast within, so you can DC him - but when? I'd DC him when he's stunned you and is about to get an aimed shot on you - if you come out of stun w/ enough time to DC him and stop the AS, do it. Well, a BM hunter at 49 won't have AS ... so use DC to basically try to turn the fight.

You've got to kill the hunter. This is hampered by the unstoppable pet, slowing your casting time. So don't just stand there trying to cast a shadowbolt - you'll die. Oh, of course when I used to bg in the 40s, there was no talent that gave you a 70% chance not to be interrupted - so if you have that one, maybe you can stand there casting shadowbolts.

If you pvp you want insta-cast spells - imp cor - siphon life - shadowburn. And of course, CoA. Imp cor is just five pts in aff, easy. Shadowburn is 11 pts in destruction.

Now, how do you use Shadowburn against a BM hunter? If you have enough shards - and you should if you pvp - consider trying to use Shadowburn twice in the fight. Why? You need to maximize you instacast spells. Shadowburn is a 15 second cooldown. Will your fight last 15 seconds? That's the hitch. I found they often did, and if I opened w/ Shadowburn - I'd have a second Shadowburn available to finish off the hunter at the end of the fight.

So, when a BM hunter gets on you and the pet goes red, I'd do something like:

CoW the pet while closing on the hunter - trying to get into and stay in his dead zone.
Shadowburn hunter if you have it.
Cast all instacast dots.
Death Coil when it makes most sense - try to mess up something he's doing to you - the longer the casting time of the thing - but don't wait too long. It's okay to DC him simply because he's gotten to shooting range and is going to damage the crap out of you.
Try Searing Pain or even wanding - see what works best for you. With a hunter and pet damaging you, long-cast spells like shadowbolt will get very interupted - searing pain and wands have their place in this fight.
Watch for BM to come off pet - if BM was cast before he put the pet on you, it can end w/ time for you to fear the pet off you, if it makes sense to do that.
Shadowburn if it comes up again - you don't need to save this to keep a healer from not dying w/ a sliver of life.

Don't forget your healthstone.

Learn to fight while moving. Often when we start pvping as locks, we're the "rock of gibraltar" - standing there casting fear and shadowbolt. You must move to beat a bm hunter. Again, his dead zone is his weakness. As bad as the unstoppable pet is, if you rush him and lower his dps on you - and max out your burst damage and instacast - and get him dotted - you can beat him. GL

I think thats bull, hunter melee + pet cannot outdps your dots and drain life, just keep practicing. Especially since they dont have TBW yet.

Edited, Oct 19th 2007 4:51pm by mikelolol

Once we locks get d/c, we shine. A good player with decent equipment can destroy every other class in the game.



As affliction, your iDoTs (coa, corr, siph life) with drain-life will out-dps the bm hunter, even if you aren't moving and are at perfect hunter range. If you add in properly timed d/cs and iHoTs, healthstone and potion cds, it's very difficult to lose.



Never melee. That's even worse than a melee huntard.

.

Wrong. This is also why your healthstones aren't helping you. First of all, healthstones have an independent cd than regular potions - which should be giving you the equivalent of two potions per battle - or regular potion use with 1/2 the overall cd. You do not drain life or use a healthstone immediately before death - it resets your global countdowns (on spells), so you'll essentially immediately lose the hp you just gained, as you are unable to perform any action. You drain-life whenever you aren't at full hp. You use healthstones when you're at 1/3 hp or above (better at 1/2 or above), and only while moving.

Also take into account that d/c does not give you the life immediately - there is a delay between damage (2 sec duration) and life gained.

You said that you fear during the duration of d/c - which is a good tactic (and good timing). The problem with bm hunters is the pet, obviously - which is why I suggested using the VW bubble (gives you uninterrupted spell casts). It also respawns after you die - so you don't waste a shard.

Please do not insult other warlocks with more experience than you, especially if you admitted you melee in bg *winces*.

.... ps
Do everyone in your battle group a favor and level to 48 before bging >_>

Edited, Oct 22nd 2007 2:08am by OveliaLethon

You know, I had never thought of using CoW on the Pet. I have now Tried the above strategy(SL and CoW Pet then Insta-DoT the Hunter and Drain Life), and actually win about 50% of the time against BM Hunters in BGs now. If I can catch them alone that is. I attribute the 50% loss to the fact that I am 67 in the BGs and they are probably 69s with better gear. So hey, I guess I was completely wrong.

Rogues still **** me off, but that's not the point of this post.

www.wowhead.com/?talent=Ii0rVRdkqzZ0b

Since you haven't created a link to your build or armory, I'm going to create one for you, and build off of it.

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I have never bought a potion, ever. I never bg with them, only healthstones. Even then, I rarely use a hs unless I'm fighting more than two people at once: I've never needed it otherwise. I'm including it because you obviously are in need of the extra hp. I'll disregard the potions comment when you can beat a huntard with only your hs.
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Not always a good choice: even if you immediately d/c the hunter, and then follow with fear, he is still able to sick the pet on you. I'm assuming that you would iDoT the hunter while the pet hits you, then after you've finished with iDots, you'd HoT the pet away, so you can focus on the hunter. The problem is that by the time your HoT ends, the hunter should have already popped "OMFGBIGREDKITTY", and you're in a bad position.

Rather, it is more productive to simply iDoT the hunter while running away, thus buying you time. When the kitty comes to intercept, turn and begin casting fear on the hunter - note: this is a "mock fear". When the hunter see's you "casting" fear, he'll get scared and pop his big red kitty. As soon as you see him turn red, stop your fear cast and start draining. If you're affliction, you should be focused on drain-tanking, in which case the link (above) will outline a usable build. If you have said build, you should easily be able to continue multiple drains in a row (usually 5-6). If you're low on mana, omg - you have dark pact! Wonderful!

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If I ever see an Affliction warlock with Dark Pact say this again, I'm going to write out ten pages of curse words and post it as a reply. This is the stupidest thing I've heard, other than a warlock attempting melee. Simply put, we (affl. dark pact locks) have a HUGE mana pool! HUGE! @#%^ING HUGE! In combination with life-tap and drain-life, you should never be out of mana - unless you're iDoTing 10+ players at once.
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If your gear is horrible (low stamina), this is the time you'd either pop your vw or use a hs - either or, your choice. I would suggest the hs so you can keep the *small* dps boost from the vw's phy. attacks.

As soon as his fear-immunity ends, d/c him, follow with a fear, and go back to draining (you're relying on CoW on the pet and your iDoTs - corr, coa, siph life). If you're low on hp, which there is no reason you should be if you're focusing on +stam then +int gear like you should be doing, use your hs. I believe in the rare potion use, simply because I dislike having to walk back to my corpse, and I like beating people who attempt to gank. Note: start looking for +spell at the end of the 49 bracket.

With the above build, and +stam +int gear (of the eagle, and instance drops) you should have at least 1/3 hp. If your gear is lacking, or you're doing world pvp, I previously suggested a vw for a reason - because it gives you reaction time*.

*In the initial bubble (world pvp), you have more than enough time to iDoT the hunter, CoW the pet, and then HoT, followed by a fear to the hunter (and finish with some draining). You should easily get the hunter to 3/4 without taking any damage, and the drain-tanking will allow you to regain lost hp without wasting your d/c.

Once again - use d/c strategically, not a "imscaredgimmehp" button.
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I included iHoT because it's attainable in your level bracket. I've included the above on the basis of HoT, because you don't seem to like adapting yourself to anything new.

49 affl pvp build:
www.wowhead.com/?talent=Ii0rVRdkqtoZ0h
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The only acceptable time to melee is when you're passing a totem (while running) - doing one quick phy. attack to get rid of it to clear for people behind you.

[Edit starts here]
The hunters have a "dead range", which was already discussed. You should be inside of it as much as possible, meaning you should not be in melee range.

When you're in melee range to a player... what the hell are you trying to do? OMG 1 damage! Scary! How about refreshing your iDoTs? How about drain-life? How about something that will KILL the hunter, instead of just waste that half a second? If you don't know why melee for a warlock is utter stupidity, then you need to reroll.

Later on, when you get iHoT (as only a stupid affl. lock would miss), getting in melee range is only acceptable to get close enough to cast. Even then, it is better to stay in the dead zone - and only getting closer to fear more than the hunter and pet (multiple players).
[end of edit]

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You're an idiot (and wrong) because:

1. You ask for help, but then don't respect the advice given by people who have played the class infinitely more than you have.

2. You run out of mana when you have dark pact, against one player.

3. You think hunters out-dps warlocks in your bracket.

4. You don't have a medallion / insignia (escape effects).

5. You melee in pvp.

Note to anyone else thinking of posting - this guy is an idiot, don't waste your time.

So why am I "wasting" my time on you? Because I prefer to believe that any lock can become a good lock. So far, you've proved me otherwise; this is my last attempt at anything helpful towards you. If you still fail, go roll another class, we don't want you.

Edited, Oct 24th 2007 12:54am by OveliaLethon

Problem. The global cooldown kills me.


This is true when you don't have a time limit before you die. Those 4.5 second I use spamming Dark Pact to get like 2 more Drain Lifes off, possible 4 whole ticks, doesn't come out being efficient. And contrary to what you say, yes, a Hunter can out DPS my Drain Life IN MELEE RANGE! Not like he keeps that long with a swift Intimidation/Wing Clip.



http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&n=Ignuus
There. Does that gear look crappy to you? I wouldn't think so.




Let's assume I don't have control over my environment, and that I use a Felhunter actively. How do I beat a Hunter then?



Don't care. I'm sticking to my PvE build.




I know what the dead range is. There's only 2 yards to work with, so I tend to stick with staying in melee range for safety's sake since I'm not a Mage and BM Hunters can get range on me too easily. If I try to Drain Life at the dead zone, he will Intimidate+Concussive Shot, and then bring on all sorts of ownage.



You keep auto-attack on so whenever you get in range for WHATEVER REASON, you get an extra hit in WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT IT! I don't see what's wrong with that!



...unless you're a instance-running build, and HoT sucks in instances.



I haven't been an @#%^ but to YOU, only because you were disrespectful to me first.



I run out when I spam Drain Life, instead of wasting GCD's and getting killed in the process.



When you can't throw bolts at someone continuously, you can't out DPS them.


Ooh, gee, I'm such a noob for not BG'ing more. I should be more hardcore about PvP?



I addressed this one.


[quote=OveliaLethon]
If you still fail, go roll another class, we don't want you.[/quote]
If I need to be welcomed to my classes' community to be able to play my class, I need to get a life.

Edited, Oct 24th 2007 8:58am by Ignuus

Edited, Oct 24th 2007 9:04am by Ignuus

Wrong. I rebute people's claims and claim that I use their strategy, or point out their flaws and wait for a half-viable response. I also don't take ***-hole-ness lightly, so s'cuse me if I don't take it up the ***.

I say what I do so I can get help... I clarify what I do, I point out how their ideas don't work, and I ask for more answers.

Instead, I should just nod when someone gives advice and say "thanks" when you know it's not right. That doesn't answer my question. I guess a pansy would do the aforementioned to keep everyone happy, but I don't feel like reposting the same question until someone with an actual non-stupid change posts, or they recommend something I clearly did not see to use.

Let's have some good discussion instead of finger pointing, ********* and flaming, and then I can say thanks for the help. So far, the only thing I've considered of all the recommendations I've been given and do not already do, is to get an Insignia to remove pesky effects. Not like I wasn't thinking about it... I don't/haven't/won't make that my priority, but perhaps I'll run BG in wait for instance runs. I preferred questing, but like I said, I've CONSIDERED changing my play time to running some more BG's.

Ooh, but then again, Mr. Smartass said I shouldn't run BG at my level, which I agree. What a dilemma!

Alright, alright. We apparently have different opinions on how to go through this game. I'm done getting bi-polar. I've found solace in playing my Druid, where in my Warlock I was so hell-bent on owning people. So good day... ma'am.