I was just fooling around with it in BGs with a 0/20/41 build on the PTR.
After fooling around a little, the possibilities seem endless (ShS away from people, ShS up hills). The most fun was using it as a mage blinked, or as someone was finishing a cast and you appear behind them, cancelling it.
At the very least, they should make it buff the next hemo/SS/Shiv or whatever by 20% in addition to garrote, ambush, and backstab.
And as fun as it was, I would never consider speccing that on the real servers.
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Old SHS is fun, that's the spec's only redeeming ability... I kinda expect the new one to be fun too :P.
If you wanted to go on a BG binge, ShS wouldnt be all that bad. Its actually pretty awesome in BGs.
yay for that and stuff.
yay for that and stuff.
Tried it and don't really like it, 40 sec cooldown is just way too long as rogue's ability. Seriously I quite disappointed with all the rogue's changes, blizzard still didn't really look into our issues.
Do any of you guys know if there is a PTR Talent Calculator anywhere? I'm really intriuged by the changes, but have never been able to get PTRs to work.
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At the very least, they should make it buff the next hemo/SS/Shiv or whatever by 20% in addition to garrote, ambush, and backstab.
Why would you be using hemo/SS with daggers?
bococho wrote:
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At the very least, they should make it buff the next hemo/SS/Shiv or whatever by 20% in addition to garrote, ambush, and backstab.
Why would you be using hemo/SS with daggers?
Because you can swap weapons?
Possibly because Sub sword rogues might consider going 41 into the tree (thus giving up Cold Blood) in order to gain an anti-kiting tool.
according to latest PTR build, ShS is now a 30s CD.
not much of a buff, but some people are saying its enough. naturally, some are saying it isnt, but its a buff nonetheless.
not much of a buff, but some people are saying its enough. naturally, some are saying it isnt, but its a buff nonetheless.
Shortening the cooldown won't really solve the Subtlety Tree atrocious talents...
yeah, they do need to work on deep sub. i say tack on some kind of resilience lowering ability. not by a lot, somewhere between 60 and 100, but something to take the edge off, since sub is mostly the burst damage tree.
Deep Sub is actually kinda of nice - There's nothing wrong per say with Deadlyness, Sinister Calling, Cheat Death, etc... the problem are the 20 or so waste of talents to get there and the talents you have to lose out in order to get there - the 20 first points in Assa and Combat covers up some of the Rogue's class basic weakness, and going 40ish in Sub means giving up on 1 or the other.
Sub isn't so much the burst damage tree (Assassination with Mutilate takes the crown for me) as much as it is the 'Stealth' tree. Stealth however, is a weak game mechanism and went from being the rogue's signature ability to 'a nice little trick'... so the tree that support it is obviously suffering.
Sub may come back if Hemo is changed to something good... or if ShS ends up being good, build like 18/2/41 (i.e Sword Sub) might come back... but burst damage's pretty much dead.
Edited, Oct 20th 2007 7:45am by Tyrandor
Sub isn't so much the burst damage tree (Assassination with Mutilate takes the crown for me) as much as it is the 'Stealth' tree. Stealth however, is a weak game mechanism and went from being the rogue's signature ability to 'a nice little trick'... so the tree that support it is obviously suffering.
Sub may come back if Hemo is changed to something good... or if ShS ends up being good, build like 18/2/41 (i.e Sword Sub) might come back... but burst damage's pretty much dead.
Edited, Oct 20th 2007 7:45am by Tyrandor
Scholar
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With Subtlety being a stealth tree, why don't they just add another way for Sub rogues to enter stealth? I'm thinking Shadowstep would be way more functional if they increased the range to 30 or 40 yards. But if it put you out of combat as well, you'll have a chance of entering stealth and getting an opener in.
It won't remove dots, won't stop pets from attacking/following you, won't work against mobs (they'll just reset and aggro you once you appear behind them, unstealthed) and won't remove you from your opponent's target - it will merely give you a tiny window where you might be able to enter stealth and Ambush/Cheap Shot/whatever.
As for the other Sub talents:
Make Setup useful by increasing the chance to add combo points. How much? 30% per point might be too much?
Add Blind and/or CloS to Preparation.
Anyway, if they increased the range of Shadowstep (or it at least put you out of combat for that split second or two before the next tick of a dot, pet catches up with you or your opponent turns around to whack you), I'm guessing deep Sub would be a lot more viable than it is today.
It won't remove dots, won't stop pets from attacking/following you, won't work against mobs (they'll just reset and aggro you once you appear behind them, unstealthed) and won't remove you from your opponent's target - it will merely give you a tiny window where you might be able to enter stealth and Ambush/Cheap Shot/whatever.
As for the other Sub talents:
Make Setup useful by increasing the chance to add combo points. How much? 30% per point might be too much?
Add Blind and/or CloS to Preparation.
Anyway, if they increased the range of Shadowstep (or it at least put you out of combat for that split second or two before the next tick of a dot, pet catches up with you or your opponent turns around to whack you), I'm guessing deep Sub would be a lot more viable than it is today.
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With Subtlety being a stealth tree, why don't they just add another way for Sub rogues to enter stealth?
This is actually a pretty good idea. But as you will know yourself from being a rogue, the problem isn't so much getting into stealth - more staying in stealth. Whilst this may sound blatently obvious, our stealth is too fragile to be worth much in a 5v5 situation. The element of surprise is the one factor stealth relies on most & in world pvp/BGs (to a certain extent) you would agree that we have plenty of time to roam around & pick off people we want. I suppose you probably answered this already with:
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It won't remove dots, won't stop pets from attacking/following you, won't work against mobs (they'll just reset and aggro you once you appear behind them, unstealthed) and won't remove you from your opponent's target - it will merely give you a tiny window where you might be able to enter stealth and Ambush/Cheap Shot/whatever.
But then you risk calls of "Overpowered" & nerfings. Whilst it would be perfectly justifiable in arena context, it would make things exceedingly easy for us in 1v1 situations. I suppose you could argue that Sub is meant to be the 1v1 tree anyway. Otherwise; In the context of a 5v5 fight the chances of you being able to sucessfully re-stealth are pretty slim. And under the current restrictions, waiting 6 seconds to re-enter stealth is 6 seconds that your team is fighting 4v5.
As for adding Blind and/or CloS to Preparation. I don't see why Ice Mages can cold snap all their cooldowns back whilst we can't...
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