(this is kind of a rant...)
Ok I was in Outlands right underneath the dragons that fly around. Forget exactly where but it was in Shadowmoon Valley. (is that right?)
This guy (Blood elf model but NPC for story sake.) was fighting one of those rippers... and He runs up to it. Starts swinging away. I was like what ever... stupid NPC. But in the middle of the fight he Pulls out a Bow (while in Melee range) and shoots this mob like 3 or 4 times in the face and puts it back away and continues swinging. (He is the guy that asks you to feed the dragons.)
I was like WTF! Where is the consistancy here Blizz!
I don't get it...
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Come on Blizz. A little consistancy would be nice!
Come on Blizz. A little consistancy would be nice!Follow
maybe he's beta testing the new min range for ranged weapons?
really though it's always been that way. lots of instances of ranged npc's doing things that players are unable to.
really though it's always been that way. lots of instances of ranged npc's doing things that players are unable to.
Yeah, like NPC's not getting their casting interupted by damage, like the poor mages do :)
Still don't think it makes any sense that you can't fire a bow/gun at point blank. Nor that it would give you some sort of penalty. I shot with bow for the better part of three years and from my experience, targets close to you are easier to hit.
Besides, pulling out your bow and planting an arrow in your target's skull would be so badass.
Besides, pulling out your bow and planting an arrow in your target's skull would be so badass.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Thats the one thing that originally disappointed me about the hunter class when I first started playing... Coming from a RT RPG "Morrowind and Oblivion" Being a Marksman ment I didn't have to switch to a sword at close range it just ment I needed to move a hell of a lot more.
But I got use to it... Then I said WTF when I saw this.
But I got use to it... Then I said WTF when I saw this.
It's the Dragonmaw Transporter Orcs you have to kill to get the Netherwing Relics for the The Not-So-Friendly Skies... quest. They pop you with a serpent sting at point blank range. And, yeah, it pisses me off, too.
I think it would be realistic to have bows unusable at point blank range, but anything more than 2 feet away you should be able to use a bow on. The existing dead zone is just dumb.
Edited, Oct 17th 2007 4:21pm by azwing
I think it would be realistic to have bows unusable at point blank range, but anything more than 2 feet away you should be able to use a bow on. The existing dead zone is just dumb.
Edited, Oct 17th 2007 4:21pm by azwing
azwing wrote:
It's the Dragonmaw Transporter Orcs you have to kill to get the Netherwing Relics for the The Not-So-Friendly Skies... quest. They pop you with a serpent sting at point blank range. And, yeah, it pisses me off, too.
I think it would be realistic to have bows unusable at point blank range, but anything more than 2 feet away you should be able to use a bow on. The existing dead zone is just dumb.
Edited, Oct 17th 2007 4:21pm by azwing
I think it would be realistic to have bows unusable at point blank range, but anything more than 2 feet away you should be able to use a bow on. The existing dead zone is just dumb.
Edited, Oct 17th 2007 4:21pm by azwing
I havent gotten this far through the quest line yet. But yeah that would make me mad too that I couldnt shoot someone at point blank but they can. Consistancy plz?
Scholar
29 posts
lol maybe have a hunter only "melee" pistol? goes in the main hand slot, used just like melee, but its a gun :D ohhhh i wanna duelwield pistols!!! lmao
azwing wrote:
I think it would be realistic to have bows unusable at point blank range
There's nothing realistic about not being able to fire a bow/gun at point blank. As I mentioned earlier, I've shot with bow for a couple of years and at one point we practiced point blank shots. It's one hell of a kickback, but it's nowhere near impossible to fire a bow at something right infront of you.
Currently I'm serving in the army and alongside normal rifle practice I'm also practicing with handguns in my spare time. Same principle there: the closer the target, the easier it is to hit. There's no arming distance on bullets. There's no minimum range. If you put a rifle to someone's face and pull the trigger, that person will most likely die. If you put an arrow to someone's face and release it, that person will most likely die.
Having a penalty on close range shots, not to mention making point blank shots downright impossible, is about as unrealistic as it gets.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
I have no problems that I cannot use my bow when engaged in melee combat.
It is a game and does not have to be 100% realistic. It is better for game balance that I have power on range but less power in melee range. Imagine I could use both my melee and my ranged attacks whenever I'm in melee combat, that would be weird to say the least.
What is really disturbing is the dead zone.
That is whenever anyone is in range of my polearm/sword/axe I hack away at him (0-5 yards); whenever someone is on range he tastes my bullets/arrows (8-35/41 yards). However Blizz has designed a range where I cannot use my melee skills and ranged skills which is illogical and very weird. Whenever anyone is between 5 and 8 yards of me he can do whatever he wants (if it is a caster) and I cannot do anything apart from scatter shot for which I'd need 21 points in MM.
It is really weird to see a mage come at you. You shot him twice, he blinks in melee range, frost nova, goes 1-2 steps back and while I can do nothing for a few seconds while he nukes me.
Can you image a situation where you cannot reach your opponent with your sword, you have a bow/gun on your side and you just stand there waiting to be killed while your opponent is only a few yards away.
It is not such a big deal in PvP/Arena (although frost mages are a PITA) but I'd love to see that go away, I really hope Blizz removes the dead zone with the next patch. I also hope that I'll never be able to use my ranged weapons in melee combat.
It is a game and does not have to be 100% realistic. It is better for game balance that I have power on range but less power in melee range. Imagine I could use both my melee and my ranged attacks whenever I'm in melee combat, that would be weird to say the least.
What is really disturbing is the dead zone.
That is whenever anyone is in range of my polearm/sword/axe I hack away at him (0-5 yards); whenever someone is on range he tastes my bullets/arrows (8-35/41 yards). However Blizz has designed a range where I cannot use my melee skills and ranged skills which is illogical and very weird. Whenever anyone is between 5 and 8 yards of me he can do whatever he wants (if it is a caster) and I cannot do anything apart from scatter shot for which I'd need 21 points in MM.
It is really weird to see a mage come at you. You shot him twice, he blinks in melee range, frost nova, goes 1-2 steps back and while I can do nothing for a few seconds while he nukes me.
Can you image a situation where you cannot reach your opponent with your sword, you have a bow/gun on your side and you just stand there waiting to be killed while your opponent is only a few yards away.
It is not such a big deal in PvP/Arena (although frost mages are a PITA) but I'd love to see that go away, I really hope Blizz removes the dead zone with the next patch. I also hope that I'll never be able to use my ranged weapons in melee combat.
Scholar
19 posts
"We want to be able to lay traps in combat!"
Blizz: But you can just Feign Death to get out of combat and then...
"That's not good enough! I wanna lay traps in combat! **WHINE**"
Blizz: Fine, we "fixed" it. Now go play in traffic.
"Why the hell do we have a deadzone!? That makes no sense!"
Blizz: It helps to balance the game. If you didn't have it PVP would be comp...
"But it's not fair! We shouldn't have to actually have skills to be good players! **WHINE**"
Blizz: We'll fix it in an upcoming patch, just stop whining for Christ's sake!
"Why can't we shoot at point blank range!?"
Blizz: ...
"In real life I can shoot a bow at a target that's right in front of me!"
Blizz: Die in a fire.
I used to like playing a Hunter. Sure people used to make fun of me because it was supposedly the easiest class to play in the game, but at least my raid party knew that I was skilled.
Chain trapping used to take some skill. And now? Having a deadzone used to make PVP interesting. We could use Scatter Shot and actual SKILL to survive (Engineering FTW)... Now you guys are complaining that you can't shoot a ranged weapon at point blank range? STFU and learn to play your class.
Complaining that it's not realistic? Fine. You pull out a bow and take 1.7 seconds to shoot it. You try to hit a target with an arrow while they are running around like a chicken with their head cut off. You try to shoot at me with a crossbow while I'm hitting you in the face with a giant f***ing hammer.
I used to love playing my Hunter, you guys make me LOATHE the idea of playing one anymore.
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 9:19am by Deevious
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 9:20am by Deevious
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 9:20am by Deevious
Blizz: But you can just Feign Death to get out of combat and then...
"That's not good enough! I wanna lay traps in combat! **WHINE**"
Blizz: Fine, we "fixed" it. Now go play in traffic.
"Why the hell do we have a deadzone!? That makes no sense!"
Blizz: It helps to balance the game. If you didn't have it PVP would be comp...
"But it's not fair! We shouldn't have to actually have skills to be good players! **WHINE**"
Blizz: We'll fix it in an upcoming patch, just stop whining for Christ's sake!
"Why can't we shoot at point blank range!?"
Blizz: ...
"In real life I can shoot a bow at a target that's right in front of me!"
Blizz: Die in a fire.
I used to like playing a Hunter. Sure people used to make fun of me because it was supposedly the easiest class to play in the game, but at least my raid party knew that I was skilled.
Chain trapping used to take some skill. And now? Having a deadzone used to make PVP interesting. We could use Scatter Shot and actual SKILL to survive (Engineering FTW)... Now you guys are complaining that you can't shoot a ranged weapon at point blank range? STFU and learn to play your class.
Complaining that it's not realistic? Fine. You pull out a bow and take 1.7 seconds to shoot it. You try to hit a target with an arrow while they are running around like a chicken with their head cut off. You try to shoot at me with a crossbow while I'm hitting you in the face with a giant f***ing hammer.
I used to love playing my Hunter, you guys make me LOATHE the idea of playing one anymore.
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 9:19am by Deevious
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 9:20am by Deevious
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 9:20am by Deevious
Lord Mazra wrote:
There's nothing realistic about not being able to fire a bow/gun at point blank. As I mentioned earlier, I've shot with bow for a couple of years and at one point we practiced point blank shots. It's one hell of a kickback, but it's nowhere near impossible to fire a bow at something right infront of you.
I bet you wouldnt be shooting a lot of arrows.
Lord Mazra wrote:
azwing wrote:
I think it would be realistic to have bows unusable at point blank range
There's nothing realistic about not being able to fire a bow/gun at point blank. As I mentioned earlier, I've shot with bow for a couple of years and at one point we practiced point blank shots. It's one hell of a kickback, but it's nowhere near impossible to fire a bow at something right infront of you.
Currently I'm serving in the army and alongside normal rifle practice I'm also practicing with handguns in my spare time. Same principle there: the closer the target, the easier it is to hit. There's no arming distance on bullets. There's no minimum range. If you put a rifle to someone's face and pull the trigger, that person will most likely die. If you put an arrow to someone's face and release it, that person will most likely die.
Having a penalty on close range shots, not to mention making point blank shots downright impossible, is about as unrealistic as it gets.
First off, I bet your practice targets weren't trying to kill you :p
Second, small firearms != bow/crossbow/rifle.
Point blank should be disallowed, but I don't understand the 5-8yd 'deadzone' penalty. I say it should be that if you're in melee range, you can't shoot, but as soon as you're out of melee you can peg someone with a shot.
Look, all classes have 'melee' range impossibilities. Heck, you can walk THROUGH your targets and buddies in this game. Reality gets a passing blush in the game but only enough to allow you to understand the world in which your character operates.
It is a virtual world and the level of reality is chosen. I really wish people would stop trying to bring reality in it.
It's all about game balancing.
In reality: THERE IS NO MAGIC.
In reality: YOU CAN'T SWING A SLEDGEHAMMER THE SIZE OF A TOASTER or A SWORD LONGER THAN A DESK!
In reality: YOU CAN'T RECREATE THE WOW UNIVERSE!
So, now that we are done with that, let's leave reality as just a option and just keep it to the point: what Blizzard should and should not do about game balance.
Yes, NPC's doing things we can't is rather 'against the grain' and they shouldn't do that. It's actual effect on the game? Pretty much None.
Yes, you can shoot a pistol, rifle, crossbow, or bow at point blank. You can't in WoW due to game balance. They want you to switch to Melee. So be it. If you don't like it, don't play the class or complain all you want but be ready for folks to come back and tell you to be quiet as it's just a game balance issue.
Yes, by reality the deadzone is stupid. However, as a game balancing rule, it's debateable all you like. As classes change over time, it may become unnecessary, other things can influence that need.
Keep reality out of it, and discuss the real issues that can be addressed. Yes, making something 'more realistic' is an option, but it is not necessary in a FANTASY virtual world.
Geeeze I'm feisty today. ^_^
It is a virtual world and the level of reality is chosen. I really wish people would stop trying to bring reality in it.
It's all about game balancing.
In reality: THERE IS NO MAGIC.
In reality: YOU CAN'T SWING A SLEDGEHAMMER THE SIZE OF A TOASTER or A SWORD LONGER THAN A DESK!
In reality: YOU CAN'T RECREATE THE WOW UNIVERSE!
So, now that we are done with that, let's leave reality as just a option and just keep it to the point: what Blizzard should and should not do about game balance.
Yes, NPC's doing things we can't is rather 'against the grain' and they shouldn't do that. It's actual effect on the game? Pretty much None.
Yes, you can shoot a pistol, rifle, crossbow, or bow at point blank. You can't in WoW due to game balance. They want you to switch to Melee. So be it. If you don't like it, don't play the class or complain all you want but be ready for folks to come back and tell you to be quiet as it's just a game balance issue.
Yes, by reality the deadzone is stupid. However, as a game balancing rule, it's debateable all you like. As classes change over time, it may become unnecessary, other things can influence that need.
Keep reality out of it, and discuss the real issues that can be addressed. Yes, making something 'more realistic' is an option, but it is not necessary in a FANTASY virtual world.
Geeeze I'm feisty today. ^_^
Wow... some of you are coming to a weird conclusion that I am saying we should make it so theres is a point blank shot area.
NO I am not saying this. I am stating that why do mobs have the ability to pull of things that the players are unable to ever achieve. I feel they should make the mobs follow most of the same rules as a player. Obviously some rules for the mobs like Auto Heal is for the benifit of them not being damaged and then when someone dies or runs away they cant heal up and run back and finish it off.
That is all I was saying.
NO I am not saying this. I am stating that why do mobs have the ability to pull of things that the players are unable to ever achieve. I feel they should make the mobs follow most of the same rules as a player. Obviously some rules for the mobs like Auto Heal is for the benifit of them not being damaged and then when someone dies or runs away they cant heal up and run back and finish it off.
That is all I was saying.
Aethien wrote:
Ever tried to fire point blank with someone else trying to cut your head off?
I bet you wouldnt be shooting a lot of arrows.
I bet you wouldnt be shooting a lot of arrows.
I've done house "cleansing" exercises where I was required to fire at attacking targets in tight quarters using an M16 rifle. At least allow for "Arrow Stab"/"Rifle Swing" when in close combat then...
I'd love to smack someone over the head with the rifle butt.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Mazra wrote:
There's nothing realistic about not being able to fire a bow/gun at point blank...Having a penalty on close range shots, not to mention making point blank shots downright impossible, is about as unrealistic as it gets.
Others beat me to it, but I'll respond anyway.
There's a huge difference between firing a handgun or an M16 point blank and using a bow/arrow at point blank. I will allow that WoW guns probably should be usable at melee range, but I definitely don't think a bow should be.
Quote:
If you put a rifle to someone's face and pull the trigger, that person will most likely die. If you put an arrow to someone's face and release it, that person will most likely die.
Clearly. But, the mechanics of firing a gun vs. shooting a bow are quite different. It's much easier to point-and-shoot a gun than a bow. Also, it's one thing to shoot a bow point blank at a target, it's quite another to shoot at a moving target that is hitting you while you're trying to notch your arrow and draw your bowstring.
edit: because Mazra posted while I was typing.
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 10:48am by azwing
Actually if you put an arrow squarely on someones head and release the string... it will not even hurt them. (ok might hurt them a little bit)
Reason you ask? Because an arrow gains its ability to penitrate in flight. it has to gain momentum to pierce the target... the persons head would prevent it. But other then that ya I agree. I should be able to shoot someone in the face with my gun =( lol
Reason you ask? Because an arrow gains its ability to penitrate in flight. it has to gain momentum to pierce the target... the persons head would prevent it. But other then that ya I agree. I should be able to shoot someone in the face with my gun =( lol
Obviously you can't hurt someone with a bow if the person's head is literally pushing against the arrow, hence the Arrow Stab suggestion 
*stab stab*
*stab stab*
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Quote:
Obviously you can't hurt someone with a bow if the person's head is literally pushing against the arrow, hence the Arrow Stab suggestion
Which would make it comparable to what, a level 1 dagger? :-P
No thanks, I'll stick to Legacy for those few melee encounters I get into. :-)
Quote:
Also, it's one thing to shoot a bow point blank at a target, it's quite another to shoot at a moving target that is hitting you while you're trying to notch your arrow and draw your bowstring.
I can noch my arrows and fire at your friend who is at range while you beat on me at melee already so the readying of the bow isn't in question. Why can't I turn it and shoot at you if I choose?
sloshot wrote:
Look, all classes have 'melee' range impossibilities. Heck, you can walk THROUGH your targets and buddies in this game. Reality gets a passing blush in the game but only enough to allow you to understand the world in which your character operates.
It is a virtual world and the level of reality is chosen. I really wish people would stop trying to bring reality in it.
It's all about game balancing.
In reality: THERE IS NO MAGIC.
In reality: YOU CAN'T SWING A SLEDGEHAMMER THE SIZE OF A TOASTER or A SWORD LONGER THAN A DESK!
In reality: YOU CAN'T RECREATE THE WOW UNIVERSE!
So, now that we are done with that, let's leave reality as just a option and just keep it to the point: what Blizzard should and should not do about game balance.
Yes, NPC's doing things we can't is rather 'against the grain' and they shouldn't do that. It's actual effect on the game? Pretty much None.
Yes, you can shoot a pistol, rifle, crossbow, or bow at point blank. You can't in WoW due to game balance. They want you to switch to Melee. So be it. If you don't like it, don't play the class or complain all you want but be ready for folks to come back and tell you to be quiet as it's just a game balance issue.
Yes, by reality the deadzone is stupid. However, as a game balancing rule, it's debateable all you like. As classes change over time, it may become unnecessary, other things can influence that need.
Keep reality out of it, and discuss the real issues that can be addressed. Yes, making something 'more realistic' is an option, but it is not necessary in a FANTASY virtual world.
Geeeze I'm feisty today. ^_^
It is a virtual world and the level of reality is chosen. I really wish people would stop trying to bring reality in it.
It's all about game balancing.
In reality: THERE IS NO MAGIC.
In reality: YOU CAN'T SWING A SLEDGEHAMMER THE SIZE OF A TOASTER or A SWORD LONGER THAN A DESK!
In reality: YOU CAN'T RECREATE THE WOW UNIVERSE!
So, now that we are done with that, let's leave reality as just a option and just keep it to the point: what Blizzard should and should not do about game balance.
Yes, NPC's doing things we can't is rather 'against the grain' and they shouldn't do that. It's actual effect on the game? Pretty much None.
Yes, you can shoot a pistol, rifle, crossbow, or bow at point blank. You can't in WoW due to game balance. They want you to switch to Melee. So be it. If you don't like it, don't play the class or complain all you want but be ready for folks to come back and tell you to be quiet as it's just a game balance issue.
Yes, by reality the deadzone is stupid. However, as a game balancing rule, it's debateable all you like. As classes change over time, it may become unnecessary, other things can influence that need.
Keep reality out of it, and discuss the real issues that can be addressed. Yes, making something 'more realistic' is an option, but it is not necessary in a FANTASY virtual world.
Geeeze I'm feisty today. ^_^
Quoted to remind the assembled debatants of a few inescapable facts.
I'd like to point out that I'm not whining. I do like my Raptor Strike crits and I'm fine with the system as it is.
Just thought it would be cool if we could use our ranged weapons at closer range. Most of all I just want the dead zone gone. Perhaps not being able to shoot at point blank is unrealistic, but the dead zone is just pure stupid.
Why hello there, Mr. Mage. I see you've got me trapped in quite the awkward position here with my feet frozen solid to the ground. I am unable to reach you with my sword, yet, I also seem to be unable to successfully fire off a shot at you as well. Would you mind stepping two yards in either direction?
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 11:52pm by Mazra
Just thought it would be cool if we could use our ranged weapons at closer range. Most of all I just want the dead zone gone. Perhaps not being able to shoot at point blank is unrealistic, but the dead zone is just pure stupid.
Why hello there, Mr. Mage. I see you've got me trapped in quite the awkward position here with my feet frozen solid to the ground. I am unable to reach you with my sword, yet, I also seem to be unable to successfully fire off a shot at you as well. Would you mind stepping two yards in either direction?
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 11:52pm by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
God I love that Avy...
Does any other class have a "dead zone" that eliminates their ability to both melee and range fight (at the same time) ??? I haven't come across any except hunters, but then I haven't fully played all my toons either yet ??? Just curious.
DAMNIT YOU CHANGED YOUR AVY!!!
Recent Visitors: 108
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (108)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Come on Blizz. A little consistancy would be nice!
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC