I was thinking about a PvP build i never saw people use, but i figure it may work decently.. Wondered about opinions about it.
1) Spellfire Overload:
Revolves around blasting as much DPS in a short time as possible. Most likely a bad raiding build. Arcane missles against casters in PvP, with PoM pyro and arcane blast spam.
A lot of arcane. PvP build, for those who don't play frost. Totally mana-inefficient, but will burn down people very fast. Fire blast has a chance to stun, which is a bonus.
Forgive me, i forgot the link.
http://wowhead.com/?talent=oqxVc0bzgIuioVxhz
The basic idea is to slow the target, AP + PoM Pyro (like 3 minute mage), fire blast, then bombard with AM if it's a caster, or spam arcane blast against melee. Improved CS will ruin a casters day, Clearcasting + Arcane potency will help a lot with DPS (Critting and some mana conservation) due to AB's extremely fast casting.
Arcane missles will ruin any casters day (on top of hitting like a truck). Fire blast crits will do high damage with spell power and ignite, while having a small chance to stun. Arcane blasts DPS can go into thousands.
This build is utterly useless in PvE (due to the extreme mana inefficiency and the threat would end with a dead mage), but in PvP it provides burst potential like nothing else. Have a discipline priest using his damage reduction on you in arena? Start chainABing him for still over 1 k dps with ease. Crits with spell power will only further the targets ruin.
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 10:54am by Addramelech
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 4:47pm by Addramelech
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A controversial PvP build..Follow
Perhaps you'd care to provide a link to such a build so we can see your talent point allocation?
Forgive me, i forgot the link.
http://wowhead.com/?talent=oqxVc0fzghuioVxhz
The basic idea is to slow the target, AP + PoM Pyro (like 3 minute mage), fire blast, then bombard with AM if it's a caster, or spam arcane blast against melee. Improved CS will ruin a casters day, Clearcasting + Arcane potency will help a lot with DPS (Critting and some mana conservation) due to AB's extremely fast casting.
Arcane missles will ruin any casters day (on top of hitting like a truck). Fire blast crits will do high damage with spell power and ignite, while having a small chance to stun. Arcane blasts DPS can go into thousands.
This build is utterly useless in PvE (due to the extreme mana inefficiency and the threat would end with a dead mage), but in PvP it provides burst potential like nothing else. Have a discipline priest using his damage reduction on you in arena? Start chainABing him for still over 1 k dps with ease. Crits with spell power will only further the targets ruin.
TL;DR: Do not knock Arcane Blast. It may be a mana hog, but it has the highest burst potential of ANY spell in WoW of any class except for PoM AP Pyro, and that's every 3 minutes.
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 2:43pm by Addramelech
http://wowhead.com/?talent=oqxVc0fzghuioVxhz
The basic idea is to slow the target, AP + PoM Pyro (like 3 minute mage), fire blast, then bombard with AM if it's a caster, or spam arcane blast against melee. Improved CS will ruin a casters day, Clearcasting + Arcane potency will help a lot with DPS (Critting and some mana conservation) due to AB's extremely fast casting.
Arcane missles will ruin any casters day (on top of hitting like a truck). Fire blast crits will do high damage with spell power and ignite, while having a small chance to stun. Arcane blasts DPS can go into thousands.
This build is utterly useless in PvE (due to the extreme mana inefficiency and the threat would end with a dead mage), but in PvP it provides burst potential like nothing else. Have a discipline priest using his damage reduction on you in arena? Start chainABing him for still over 1 k dps with ease. Crits with spell power will only further the targets ruin.
TL;DR: Do not knock Arcane Blast. It may be a mana hog, but it has the highest burst potential of ANY spell in WoW of any class except for PoM AP Pyro, and that's every 3 minutes.
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 2:43pm by Addramelech
Now all you have to worry about is not getting hit at all.
The huge downside of this spec is that you'll be hard casting spells for most of your damage, which is never a good thing in pvp. Deadly throw, CS, spell lock, any interrupt basically negates this spec. In theory of course.
But I'd be even more worried about the mana cost. I could see this working in 2v2 situations, or 1v1 even if you're dueling/bging, but I really don't think this has the mana pool to survive more then that.
And now, with the incoming MSD nerf, arcane missiles look even less viable.
Anyway, I'll probably try this spec once, just cause it sounds cool, but I don't expect it to be anywhere near as solid as frost specs are.
The huge downside of this spec is that you'll be hard casting spells for most of your damage, which is never a good thing in pvp. Deadly throw, CS, spell lock, any interrupt basically negates this spec. In theory of course.
But I'd be even more worried about the mana cost. I could see this working in 2v2 situations, or 1v1 even if you're dueling/bging, but I really don't think this has the mana pool to survive more then that.
And now, with the incoming MSD nerf, arcane missiles look even less viable.
Anyway, I'll probably try this spec once, just cause it sounds cool, but I don't expect it to be anywhere near as solid as frost specs are.
Quote:
MSD nerf
???
As for interrupts, as long as it isn't silence, you can still use fire blast > Frost nova. Then, just keep bombarding with AB when it wears of. I tried this build on my lv 70's friends mage (He has kara/heroic equipment with the arena staff and spellfire equips.)
It was an arena of Mage(my spellfire overload build) / Shaman(enhancement) / lock (Affli/destro i think)
We were against a mage (Classic frost), warrior, discipline priest. I sheeped the mage (Of course, i CSed him first to avoid a CS myself), then used 3 minute mage talents and did a pyro + FB + AB on the disc priest. He had his -damage skill active but even with that and shield, that got him to around 60%(No crits =D) . He was a bit surprised i wasn't frost i think. Then, i started to AB. First he didn't think much of it, but when it started to rack up and crit, he freaked, and was dead 3 seconds after. At this time, warlock skillcoiled(I think) the warrior and feared + DOTed, while shamy beat the **** out of him.
Now, it was between the mage and me. Here's how it went. He summons elemental. I sheeped again, them AMed the elemental. He died before mage unsheeped. I put another frost ward up, and started to AM him; He tried to frostbolt me, it failed utterly (went off after 7 seconds or so), then CSed me, blinked to me, CoCed, gift of the naaru'd and ice blocked.
And there, i had him right where i wanted him. I buffed up my AB on his ice block, even doing no damage reduced the casting time. When he de-ABed, i CSed him, and just blasted away. He was dead 3 seconds later, with his shield and all.
Wow, that's rather impressive to me. On your earlier post, I was reading to ask you if you had tried it out, but this is some nice evidence.
A massive-damage pulling-out-all-the-stops mage with no survivability seems a little more viable now.
Would you do some more fights with the spec, in Arena Skirmishes, in chaotic BGs, with all different class types so that we can all get a better idea of what this beats, what beats this, what makes a complete shut-out against this spec, what this spec seems to own every time?
Lastly, since the whole concept of this spec is a suicide-bomb, would Arcane Meditation really be better than Arcane Potency? By the sound of it, the mana regen wouldn't be helpful enough for such short fights, whereas a 30% more chance to crit when Clearcasting sounds excellect for Arcane Blast, or even moreso, Fire Blast and Pyroblast, because of Ignites.
A massive-damage pulling-out-all-the-stops mage with no survivability seems a little more viable now.
Would you do some more fights with the spec, in Arena Skirmishes, in chaotic BGs, with all different class types so that we can all get a better idea of what this beats, what beats this, what makes a complete shut-out against this spec, what this spec seems to own every time?
Lastly, since the whole concept of this spec is a suicide-bomb, would Arcane Meditation really be better than Arcane Potency? By the sound of it, the mana regen wouldn't be helpful enough for such short fights, whereas a 30% more chance to crit when Clearcasting sounds excellect for Arcane Blast, or even moreso, Fire Blast and Pyroblast, because of Ignites.
Quote:
Lastly, since the whole concept of this spec is a suicide-bomb, would Arcane Meditation really be better than Arcane Potency?
You're completly right. Stupid mistake on my part. Forgive me please.
1) I did some more arenas with it. It seems to destroy frost mages every time (Ice block basically means you win, for when they come out you can CS them and AB them with minimum cooldown, burning them to a crisp in 3-4 seconds even with all their survivability stuff on. Even if you don't crit.
2) Warriors with intercept can mess your casting up. Make sure to slow them before they charge you, when they intercept, FN, blink away, and continue the raep.
3) Burning down healers with this build is a miracle basically. It destroys them, they don't get a single heal off.
4) With feral druids, you may have a few problems due to the fact they ruin your snare. However, slow is your friend here, as is blink. Try to take them down first with AP POM Pyro + Fire blast + AM when you see them, don't give them a chance to "Get into it".
5) Warlocks get destroyed by this if you can CS them before they skill coil (Even better when they try to cast fear). If they have their felhunter, Frost nova it, jump aside, CS them, and bombard them with AB + FB. It should outdps their DoTs by a lot.
6) When paladins bubble to avoid this, use this to build AB on them, then just kite them until bubble wears. Blink out of their hammer of justice, and slow. Once slowed, they're done. AB them, and CS when they try to heal (If they even get a heal off)
More testing to be done, but until now, it works better then frostie for me at least.
this built might get torn apart by a warlock/druid/(insert something else here)
warlock is SL/SL. the kind that like to keep their targets at arm's length, they might get a few nasty surprises but once they know you are very mana intensive they might go ahead and drain ur mana instead. The effectiveness of this tactic will depend on your team mates. Seems that your team mates are pretty decent.
performance should be good, but given your build is not going to last the distance it will be a problem when you face teams which use out lasting tactics.
warlock is SL/SL. the kind that like to keep their targets at arm's length, they might get a few nasty surprises but once they know you are very mana intensive they might go ahead and drain ur mana instead. The effectiveness of this tactic will depend on your team mates. Seems that your team mates are pretty decent.
performance should be good, but given your build is not going to last the distance it will be a problem when you face teams which use out lasting tactics.
This is my favourite build for fun factor, I've spent many weeks using it.
Rogues are a real challenge... in fact an excellent rogue (1900 arena rating+) I cannot beat without using PoM Polymorph at some point. Then arcane power/burst combo. Even then it's iffy.
Locks are rediculous in all circumstances for a mage, but if you get a few nice MSD procs you can burn one down quite nicely. Also they hate slow.
This build is great for arena!
My best score with this spec has been 1850 in 3v3 and 1800 in 2v2. I always played with another arcane mage who has +1000 dam (Captnnemo barthilas server). The burst damage is stunning.. often wiping out resto druids in seconds which can take care of a lot of the top tier teams.
Also it's a nice feeling to get a good arena score using a spec different from the usual cookie-cutter arena frost 17/0/44 zzz kill me now spec (which I sold out and am using now for 5v5s)
Arcane all the way, it's mad fun.
P.S. YES You can use this spec for raiding - my teammate, Captnnemo, Barthilas server, raids with deep arcane (has downed Illidan), and tops damage. Don't underestimate it for mana efficiency either. Remember you can ice lance or rank 1 scorch until clearcasting procs then AM if you're running low on mana. Also the clearcasting pom pyros with 70% chance to crit are a nice 11k or so damage every 3 minutes.
Edited, Oct 19th 2007 3:02am by Iyunzusto
Rogues are a real challenge... in fact an excellent rogue (1900 arena rating+) I cannot beat without using PoM Polymorph at some point. Then arcane power/burst combo. Even then it's iffy.
Locks are rediculous in all circumstances for a mage, but if you get a few nice MSD procs you can burn one down quite nicely. Also they hate slow.
This build is great for arena!
My best score with this spec has been 1850 in 3v3 and 1800 in 2v2. I always played with another arcane mage who has +1000 dam (Captnnemo barthilas server). The burst damage is stunning.. often wiping out resto druids in seconds which can take care of a lot of the top tier teams.
Also it's a nice feeling to get a good arena score using a spec different from the usual cookie-cutter arena frost 17/0/44 zzz kill me now spec (which I sold out and am using now for 5v5s)
Arcane all the way, it's mad fun.
P.S. YES You can use this spec for raiding - my teammate, Captnnemo, Barthilas server, raids with deep arcane (has downed Illidan), and tops damage. Don't underestimate it for mana efficiency either. Remember you can ice lance or rank 1 scorch until clearcasting procs then AM if you're running low on mana. Also the clearcasting pom pyros with 70% chance to crit are a nice 11k or so damage every 3 minutes.
Edited, Oct 19th 2007 3:02am by Iyunzusto
Well, at the beginning I was totally dubious about this spec. And I still think that once the enemy Mage learns what you're using, Frost could prawn that deep arcane thingy here. Simply CS the first arcane spell you cast. If the Mage is silenced (because you CSed him first) then he would wait and CS your first Arcane spell after the 4 seconds go away. Also CS the Arcane dude's Poly if possible, and if not, then after 12 sec Poly the Arcane dude's CS is still on cooldown. Then you spawn elemental and bomb to death with Freeze/Frost Nova->Shatter & Ice Lance if Slowed.
Also, getting CSed or somehow 'prevented from using the school of the spell that got interrupted' will hurt you a bit, because it won't let you use Blink or Slow... and that shall bring doom upon you if a Rogue jumps on you and kicks you, for example, or you get CSed in an arena. You're a sitting duck then...
Sure, it isn't an obvious encounter for an Frost Mage to fight an Arcane dude, but I still believe Frost can hold its own once he knows what to expect.
Anyway as I read your posts I come to think that this build may eventually be cool. Will try it out one day.
Edited, Oct 19th 2007 4:48am by XanNerull
Also, getting CSed or somehow 'prevented from using the school of the spell that got interrupted' will hurt you a bit, because it won't let you use Blink or Slow... and that shall bring doom upon you if a Rogue jumps on you and kicks you, for example, or you get CSed in an arena. You're a sitting duck then...
Sure, it isn't an obvious encounter for an Frost Mage to fight an Arcane dude, but I still believe Frost can hold its own once he knows what to expect.
Anyway as I read your posts I come to think that this build may eventually be cool. Will try it out one day.
Edited, Oct 19th 2007 4:48am by XanNerull
The thing is, in general, they won't start with CS first, but with frostbolt/elemental/nova. Fire off an arcane blast first, then CS their first FB. Once this happens, they'll expect you to either cast a fireball or frostbolt. Do another AB, and another, by the time they're un-silenced, they'll be very heavily damaged (Especially with a PoM pyro on them).
If they Ice block your PoM pyro, you got them where you want them; Just build your AB on the block, once they de-iceblock CS and keep ABing; They'll be dead in 6-7 seconds even if they have max stam build + resiliance + Barrier, since a very well geared mage's AB can hit for extreme damage, and the crits with spell power (And it's going to be some crits, since clearcasting WILL proc decently often on such short cast spells) can be excessive.
If they Ice block your PoM pyro, you got them where you want them; Just build your AB on the block, once they de-iceblock CS and keep ABing; They'll be dead in 6-7 seconds even if they have max stam build + resiliance + Barrier, since a very well geared mage's AB can hit for extreme damage, and the crits with spell power (And it's going to be some crits, since clearcasting WILL proc decently often on such short cast spells) can be excessive.
Quote:
Good for raiding
I can't see how. AB will suck you dry of mana at a rate of ~500-700 mana per second. Even with great gear, that's still OOM in 15 seconds. Also, the aggro it will cause will pull aggro off a BT geared tank.
Addramelech wrote:
Quote:
Good for raiding
I can't see how. AB will suck you dry of mana at a rate of ~500-700 mana per second. Even with great gear, that's still OOM in 15 seconds. Also, the aggro it will cause will pull aggro off a BT geared tank.
not really, there is a reason why most spellfire tailor mages are now arcane once they head into Hyjal and BT. Arcane subtlety is needed of course. Then its AB*3, scorch and AM when ever clearcast is up. With 2 piece T5, this build works well. Granted its not as deep arcane as yours the idea behind the arcane spec is almost the same.
also raid situation mostly means spriest and shaman present.
I did another arena with this. This time, it was against a hunter. First off, i polied his pet, and then i 3-minute-maged him, crit, one shot kill. My warrior team mate was fighting another warrior, but was horribly outgeared. My warrior had blues/greens from quests, 1 heroic drop, and the other warrior had tier 5/6, A warglaive of azzinoth coupled with some huge *** sword.
My warrior used last stand and "tanked" him. I did 3 arcane blasts, then used trinket, arcane power. He intercepted me, i FNed again and jumped aside, then started the AB spam while my warrior intercepted him back for the stun. I kept ABing him, he died in 8 seconds. However, he did finish my warrior friend and i stayed alive at ~800 hp and almost no mana.
If i were frost or 10/48/3 i'd get massacred. Seriously, no kiting or block or barrier would help against this guy, 1-2 hits and i'm gone.. he hit like a f*cking truck.
Edited, Oct 21st 2007 10:14am by Addramelech
My warrior used last stand and "tanked" him. I did 3 arcane blasts, then used trinket, arcane power. He intercepted me, i FNed again and jumped aside, then started the AB spam while my warrior intercepted him back for the stun. I kept ABing him, he died in 8 seconds. However, he did finish my warrior friend and i stayed alive at ~800 hp and almost no mana.
If i were frost or 10/48/3 i'd get massacred. Seriously, no kiting or block or barrier would help against this guy, 1-2 hits and i'm gone.. he hit like a f*cking truck.
Edited, Oct 21st 2007 10:14am by Addramelech
Scholar
20 posts
I'm trying this one at the moment, with a slicht change to improve some things:
http://www.example.com/http://wowhead.com/?talent=oixVz0fzxIuioVxRz
Tested it out in BG yesterday and with the daily quests in Shadowmoon (the mine)
In BG is was great dps and surprisingly mana eff. My first encouter was a priest, i acrane blasted him, then silence and arc missiles. he had 3% left and ran away :) good thing bout the arc missiles is they crit a lot, i had one that did: 1400, 1200, 1000, 1200, 1300 dead (that was a lucky one, they were all crits)
It definately has great burst potential, i even killed a lot of locks yesterday (still died of the dots after, but still ^^ )
In PVE it ain't so bad either, my rotation was scorch, slow, scorch (AM when clearcasting procs) and so on. Worked pretty well, downtime was less then i expected. But if u spam AM however downtime will be a lil more. Most mobs (70-72) die after 2x AM, and AM costs about 7-800 mana.
All in all think i'm going to keep this spec for i while, going to try it out on a raid tonight. Scorch untill clearcasting procs and then AM. Think it'll work out.
http://www.example.com/http://wowhead.com/?talent=oixVz0fzxIuioVxRz
Tested it out in BG yesterday and with the daily quests in Shadowmoon (the mine)
In BG is was great dps and surprisingly mana eff. My first encouter was a priest, i acrane blasted him, then silence and arc missiles. he had 3% left and ran away :) good thing bout the arc missiles is they crit a lot, i had one that did: 1400, 1200, 1000, 1200, 1300 dead (that was a lucky one, they were all crits)
It definately has great burst potential, i even killed a lot of locks yesterday (still died of the dots after, but still ^^ )
In PVE it ain't so bad either, my rotation was scorch, slow, scorch (AM when clearcasting procs) and so on. Worked pretty well, downtime was less then i expected. But if u spam AM however downtime will be a lil more. Most mobs (70-72) die after 2x AM, and AM costs about 7-800 mana.
All in all think i'm going to keep this spec for i while, going to try it out on a raid tonight. Scorch untill clearcasting procs and then AM. Think it'll work out.
You should really max arcane impact. The PVP part is very reliant on AB.
Scholar
20 posts
For me that wouldn't work, because i swapped some points to make a spec viable for both PVE and PVP. Since i never use AE in raids/instances it would be a waste of points. That's why i put those in mana regeneration. And since my survivability is very bad now, i'd rather stay at a distance then close in to AE. And this seems to work very well, high dmg and pretty mana eff. And the PVP part as described above works very well too.
I can even raid now with this spec, and don't have to respec to pvp. That was the whole idea
Edited, Oct 24th 2007 3:29am by DukeDB
Edited, Oct 24th 2007 7:07am by DukeDB
I can even raid now with this spec, and don't have to respec to pvp. That was the whole idea
Edited, Oct 24th 2007 3:29am by DukeDB
Edited, Oct 24th 2007 7:07am by DukeDB
DukeDB: The talent works on arcane blast as well as arcane explosion, you might want to reconsider.
Addramelech: How come you're level 65 in another topic, and winning from t6 warriors in this one? Without using blink on intercept even?
This sounds more like theorycraft and makebelief then actual experience to me.
Addramelech: How come you're level 65 in another topic, and winning from t6 warriors in this one? Without using blink on intercept even?
This sounds more like theorycraft and makebelief then actual experience to me.
deleted
Edited, Oct 25th 2007 2:56am by Iyunzusto
Edited, Oct 25th 2007 2:56am by Iyunzusto
Quote:
Addramelech: How come you're level 65 in another topic, and winning from t6 warriors in this one? Without using blink on intercept even?
This sounds more like theorycraft and makebelief then actual experience to me.
This sounds more like theorycraft and makebelief then actual experience to me.
You are permitted to posess more then one character.
Dont know where to ask this. And dont want to start a topic for
such a stupid question.
When talking about MSD procs....whats MSD???
Sry for my nobbishness:-(
such a stupid question.
When talking about MSD procs....whats MSD???
Sry for my nobbishness:-(
MSD = Mystical Skyfire Diamond
Using arcane as the main PvP nuke in PvP ? Risky to the extreme.
(The harder they hit the more important kiting is, btw. The idea is to not be hit)
(The harder they hit the more important kiting is, btw. The idea is to not be hit)
Speaking of controversial builds…
I never have tried it, but I know we’ve all looked at it in a talent calculator. It’s down right laughable, but you still look at it, & you still analyze it….wishing it would work, but knowing it just won’t make the cut.
The hybrid of all hybrid builds for a mage…..ha-ha
Here we have all core abilities from each tree with none of the high talent extras, no “real†survivability, and no big DPS. However, it does have POM-Pyro, Iceblock-cold snap, & shatter. Sprinkle on a little improved CoC, & you got yourself a healthy (& impressive) **** burger.
21/13/27
Could it be fun….hell yeah. Would it be viable….I doubt it, but then again I haven’t tested it.
For a silver lining….In theory, I can see this owning some warlocks.
In closing, a deep arcane build is nice & not at all controversial(in my opinion), but the above build……….. Well, you can decide for yourself.
I never have tried it, but I know we’ve all looked at it in a talent calculator. It’s down right laughable, but you still look at it, & you still analyze it….wishing it would work, but knowing it just won’t make the cut.
The hybrid of all hybrid builds for a mage…..ha-ha
Here we have all core abilities from each tree with none of the high talent extras, no “real†survivability, and no big DPS. However, it does have POM-Pyro, Iceblock-cold snap, & shatter. Sprinkle on a little improved CoC, & you got yourself a healthy (& impressive) **** burger.
21/13/27
Could it be fun….hell yeah. Would it be viable….I doubt it, but then again I haven’t tested it.
For a silver lining….In theory, I can see this owning some warlocks.
In closing, a deep arcane build is nice & not at all controversial(in my opinion), but the above build……….. Well, you can decide for yourself.
Quote:
For a silver lining….In theory, I can see this owning some warlocks.
Yeah.... warlocks don't beat mages because of their spec. Frost mages have it a little easier as they can block out of the dots/fear, but the tactic that kills us is the felhunter's special abilities and the fear from the lock. All they have to do is keep you at range running around stupidly, dot dot dot, deathcoil and you're done. When you think you want to cast, then you get spell locked by the fel puppy. End of story. That build might be fun in PvP, but I don't think you have enough of the truly good talents that lie in the deep part of the tree(s). Tier 1 talents <> tier 5 talents...
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