I ran WC with my 17 priest and 4 others including a 21 priest. We never defined roles for the party and the other priest was healing right off the bat and shielding everyone and so I took the 2ndary healing position and did mostly dps (smite and shadow word:pain mostly) and would heal if/when the other priest ran out of mana or was slumbered.
I thought that was fine, but right after we finished the run, she started ragging on how what kind of priest was I just doing dps and such (there was more, but that was the gist of it). And it kinda made me mad because
1) Was I supposed to stand around and wait for someone to need healing? Why not dps while I wait. It's not like I grabbed aggro or anything.
2) I was tied for lowest level in the party. Having me main heal would be suicide. Actually, I was surprised by how ineffectual my heals were before I looked at everyone's levels - one was 28.
3) No one died. What's there to complain about?
I guess I wanna know if
1) I did anything wrong. I haven't played a priest for long, and this was my first attempt at playing with a group, so it's entirely possible
2)if it's customary for healers to nat on each other or if this was an isolated incident and
3) How are the relations between shadow and holy priests?
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1) I did anything wrong. I haven't played a priest for long, and this was my first attempt at playing with a group, so it's entirely possible
Other than not explicitly agreeing on a main healer nope, you didn't do anything wrong
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2)if it's customary for healers to nat on each other or if this was an isolated incident and
At that level its hard to say, but it sounds like the other guy was just being an ***
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3) How are the relations between shadow and holy priests?
Fine as far as I'm concerned, when you're leveling people generally expect you to assume the healer role regardless of spec, but at 70 the roles are so totally different that shadow priests are almost treated as a seperate class entirely.
To be honest, sounds like you just got a bit of a headcase.
In the group you've hinted at being in I would say that you did the best thing. You'd probably have had a much harder time with you healing.
The only lesson I'd take away from here is always try to make sure roles are clear from the outset.
Don't take it personally tho.
1)You didn't do anything wrong imho.
2) Not isolated, but not standard for sure. When leveling my druid, I had a similar experience with a priest who had healed thro the trash in SM:Cath. The priest went mental just before the Cathedral doors.
3) In my experience, fine. Each person tends to spec how they want to spec (Unless they're in a guild that says otherwise). If you're holy and ******** about shadow, pay for the respec and stop moaning ;)
In the group you've hinted at being in I would say that you did the best thing. You'd probably have had a much harder time with you healing.
The only lesson I'd take away from here is always try to make sure roles are clear from the outset.
Don't take it personally tho.
1)You didn't do anything wrong imho.
2) Not isolated, but not standard for sure. When leveling my druid, I had a similar experience with a priest who had healed thro the trash in SM:Cath. The priest went mental just before the Cathedral doors.
3) In my experience, fine. Each person tends to spec how they want to spec (Unless they're in a guild that says otherwise). If you're holy and ******** about shadow, pay for the respec and stop moaning ;)
You did absolutely nothing wrong.
Unless the other priest was 1. OOM, 2. Having a hard time keeping up with healing or 3. Was letting people die, I don't see a problem. Were you supposed to be healing at the same time and waste your mana for no reason?
Everyone else is right... when there is more than one priest in a group, the roles have to be clearly defined before you start.
I would suggest (this has always worked for me) if there are 2 holy priests (although I know you're too low a level to REALLY be holy or shadow) that you split the healing. Divide the group as evenly as possible, and each of you concentrate on healing your part of the group. This will save you both mana, and it's alot easier to keep track of one or two health bars than 4. You may find this especially helpful at the lower levels if you've never played a healer before. It'll help you get your timing down without having to panic. Note: Just don't ignore the players that weren't assigned to you.... you never know when the other priest will go oom, get killed or be asleep at the switch!
When I'm in a group and no one needs healing, I start wanding whatever the tank is on.... you just have to watch the universal cooldown from wanding. Don't let health get too low, or you may run into problems when you want to start winding up your heal spell.
Edited, Oct 16th 2007 3:02pm by Wizarrdress
Unless the other priest was 1. OOM, 2. Having a hard time keeping up with healing or 3. Was letting people die, I don't see a problem. Were you supposed to be healing at the same time and waste your mana for no reason?
Everyone else is right... when there is more than one priest in a group, the roles have to be clearly defined before you start.
I would suggest (this has always worked for me) if there are 2 holy priests (although I know you're too low a level to REALLY be holy or shadow) that you split the healing. Divide the group as evenly as possible, and each of you concentrate on healing your part of the group. This will save you both mana, and it's alot easier to keep track of one or two health bars than 4. You may find this especially helpful at the lower levels if you've never played a healer before. It'll help you get your timing down without having to panic. Note: Just don't ignore the players that weren't assigned to you.... you never know when the other priest will go oom, get killed or be asleep at the switch!
When I'm in a group and no one needs healing, I start wanding whatever the tank is on.... you just have to watch the universal cooldown from wanding. Don't let health get too low, or you may run into problems when you want to start winding up your heal spell.
Edited, Oct 16th 2007 3:02pm by Wizarrdress
Wizarrdress wrote:
You did absolutely nothing wrong.
Unless the other priest was 1. OOM, 2. Having a hard time keeping up with healing or 3. Was letting people die, I don't see a problem. Were you supposed to be healing at the same time and waste your mana for no reason?
Everyone else is right... when there is more than one priest in a group, the roles have to be clearly defined before you start.
I would suggest (this has always worked for me) if there are 2 holy priests (although I know you're too low a level to REALLY be holy or shadow) that you split the healing. Divide the group as evenly as possible, and each of you concentrate on healing your part of the group. This will save you both mana, and it's alot easier to keep track of one or two health bars than 4. You may find this especially helpful at the lower levels if you've never played a healer before. It'll help you get your timing down without having to panic. Note: Just don't ignore the players that weren't assigned to you.... you never know when the other priest will go oom, get killed or be asleep at the switch!
When I'm in a group and no one needs healing, I start wanding whatever the tank is on.... you just have to watch the universal cooldown from wanding. Don't let health get too low, or you may run into problems when you want to start winding up your heal spell.
Edited, Oct 16th 2007 3:02pm by Wizarrdress
Unless the other priest was 1. OOM, 2. Having a hard time keeping up with healing or 3. Was letting people die, I don't see a problem. Were you supposed to be healing at the same time and waste your mana for no reason?
Everyone else is right... when there is more than one priest in a group, the roles have to be clearly defined before you start.
I would suggest (this has always worked for me) if there are 2 holy priests (although I know you're too low a level to REALLY be holy or shadow) that you split the healing. Divide the group as evenly as possible, and each of you concentrate on healing your part of the group. This will save you both mana, and it's alot easier to keep track of one or two health bars than 4. You may find this especially helpful at the lower levels if you've never played a healer before. It'll help you get your timing down without having to panic. Note: Just don't ignore the players that weren't assigned to you.... you never know when the other priest will go oom, get killed or be asleep at the switch!
When I'm in a group and no one needs healing, I start wanding whatever the tank is on.... you just have to watch the universal cooldown from wanding. Don't let health get too low, or you may run into problems when you want to start winding up your heal spell.
Edited, Oct 16th 2007 3:02pm by Wizarrdress
There's no reason to split the group for heals. Tanking doesn't usually stack. Healing doesn't usually stack. DPS always stacks. If someone can main heal then a secondary healer should off heal when needed and dps the rest of the time. If you add to the dps you decrease the amount of healing needed.
You did nothing wrong. If the other priest was using shield allot, then they probably aren't a very good priest.
That said, be aware that renew from two priests stack. Next time, define the main healer. After agro is firmly established, you could throw on renews where needed, then dps a bit.
In my experience, shadow and holy priests make a great team. I love teaming with a shadow priest. They can give me and the party back some mana and health as they do dps. They can also drop out of shadow and do extra healing if needed.
Edited, Oct 25th 2007 10:48pm by dadanox
That said, be aware that renew from two priests stack. Next time, define the main healer. After agro is firmly established, you could throw on renews where needed, then dps a bit.
In my experience, shadow and holy priests make a great team. I love teaming with a shadow priest. They can give me and the party back some mana and health as they do dps. They can also drop out of shadow and do extra healing if needed.
Edited, Oct 25th 2007 10:48pm by dadanox
"Some" ?
On last gruul the healing meter was hilarious;
-1. Our best equipped paladin
-2. Another pala I think
-3. Me being a shadowpriest dpsing
-4.-6. or 7. the rest of the <specced~!> healers.
3. on healing meters, first on dmg meter and even returning a very good bit of mana to my group... shadowpriests are so awesome xD
On last gruul the healing meter was hilarious;
-1. Our best equipped paladin
-2. Another pala I think
-3. Me being a shadowpriest dpsing
-4.-6. or 7. the rest of the <specced~!> healers.
3. on healing meters, first on dmg meter and even returning a very good bit of mana to my group... shadowpriests are so awesome xD
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There's no reason to split the group for heals. Tanking doesn't usually stack. Healing doesn't usually stack. DPS always stacks. If someone can main heal then a secondary healer should off heal when needed and dps the rest of the time. If you add to the dps you decrease the amount of healing needed.
Makes sense - she had a better grasp on what she had already healed so any time I tried to help, one of us would just end up overhealing the guy and pulling aggro.
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If the other priest was using shield allot, then they probably aren't a very good priest.
Actually, I was curious about that. She pretty much kept everyone shielded all the time (including the tank until he told her to knock it off LOL). In my (admittedly short) experience, shield is pretty useless vs hard melee damage. I couldn't figure out how to use it until a guildy said it's good for right before a heal. Aha!
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That said, be aware that renew stacks. Next time, define the main healer. After agro is firmly established, you could throw on some renews where needed, then dps a bit.
Awesome! That's pretty much what I did. Casting renew and topping them up a bit. Then recasting when it ran out. Lesser heal when it was really needed (The PuG was spur of the moment and I kinda hadn't visited my trainer for a level or two so I didn't actually have the 'heal' spell. my bad)
We kinda defined the main healer when she asked at the beginning of the instance "Is anyone else healing?" And I replied with how she seemed to have it under control but I'd keep my eye on things. But I guess one of us didn't take the hint :P
Anyways, other than that incident, playing a priest is proving to be much more fun than I had actually expected :D I love learning how to play a more supportive role in parties and I suspect the experience'll help me to play my druid better too.
Beetlecat wrote:
Quote:
There's no reason to split the group for heals. Tanking doesn't usually stack. Healing doesn't usually stack. DPS always stacks. If someone can main heal then a secondary healer should off heal when needed and dps the rest of the time. If you add to the dps you decrease the amount of healing needed.
Makes sense - she had a better grasp on what she had already healed so any time I tried to help, one of us would just end up overhealing the guy and pulling aggro.
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If the other priest was using shield allot, then they probably aren't a very good priest.
Actually, I was curious about that. She pretty much kept everyone shielded all the time (including the tank until he told her to knock it off LOL). In my (admittedly short) experience, shield is pretty useless vs hard melee damage. I couldn't figure out how to use it until a guildy said it's good for right before a heal. Aha!
Shield is more of an OHSH*T! ability. It's a mana intensive spell and really doesn't need to be on everyone all the time and in most cases a quick heal or renew will have the same result but less mana usage.
And yes do not shield warriors. Sometimes you'll need to but try not to because it rapes their rage regen especially at the first of a fight when agro is suppose be building up. A pally tank would be okay because their agro is increased differently. But ask yourself if a shield is really needed and most times it's not necessary. Even soloing I take hits and pop a renew and heal after the fight instead of using shield.
MentalFrog wrote:
Shield is more of an OHSH*T! ability.
Exactly. The shield can buy you the time you need in order to save a player. Use it when you think you don't have time to heal before they will be dead.
I also keep watch on cloth wearers like a mages. If they grab agro while doing AOE and are taking damage, I'll throw them a shield and renew. They are both instant cast, and you can turn your attention back to the tank.
Edited, Oct 16th 2007 11:14pm by dadanox
Schweizi, that's not EFFECTIVE healing though. As in, 80% of what you listed as healing was overhealing, maybe more. Get a meter that separates overhealing from healing.
the current meters do seperate overhealing from healing however you need to look for the specific report rather than take the general healing done key. with a feral druid in raid, I'm pretty sure the rogues, warriors& hunters also have something in the healing meter even if they have never popped a bandage or used a pot.
Addermine wrote:
the current meters do seperate overhealing from healing however you need to look for the specific report rather than take the general healing done key. with a feral druid in raid, I'm pretty sure the rogues, warriors& hunters also have something in the healing meter even if they have never popped a bandage or used a pot.
I'm pretty sure SWS seperates overhealing.
Scholar
34 posts
In Kara today (ok technically it was yesterday) I was third on the heal 'o meter, and well behind the other holy/disc priest and the healadin. Even accounting for prayer of mending, the shields I threw out at the pally off-tank (reflective shield, and I had the mana to spare) and my much lower +healing score, I was using less heals than the others. Basically, I didn't really need to heal. Even when I tried most of the time someone got either a holy light, a flash of light or a flash heal in the moment before my big heal hit, wasting it.
Aside from keeping up renews and mendings, I was mainly holy firing, mind blasting, putting shadow word: pain on the primary target, and so forth. This was with trash mobs, not the bosses of course. The other healers kept everyone up on their own in most of the fights, and I kept my eye out in case things started going bad.
At the end, no one criticised my healing at all, in fact usually i'm complimented, even on runs like the last one. And when it had me doing 4-5% of the total damage all the way through, I know at least I'm doing something.
I guess my point is that most fights where you're healing, it is not incredibly hectic, having to spam big heals on the main tank and praying that no one else draws aggro. No, most fights you'll probably end up with several second gaps between when you have to heal, and a mana bar with mana still in it at the end. In such cases it's alright to throw out a few damage spells. If someone else is doing the majority of the healing even better, you have basically free reign, just remain alert, and make sure you have enough mana to save everyone if needed. As you get more levels though the convention of 1 tank 1 healer 3 dps becomes more and more important, and having 2 healers will often mean an absence of damage, so this situation will become rarer. Make the most of it!
So: you did nothing wrong; in my experience only the most immature of healers would rag on you in this situation (maybe I'm just in a good guild though); and I personally love shadow priests, they give me mana, and I have even seen a couple drop out of shadow form just to cast a heal when someone runs out of mana. A good shadow priest becomes a healer's best friend very quickly.
Aside from keeping up renews and mendings, I was mainly holy firing, mind blasting, putting shadow word: pain on the primary target, and so forth. This was with trash mobs, not the bosses of course. The other healers kept everyone up on their own in most of the fights, and I kept my eye out in case things started going bad.
At the end, no one criticised my healing at all, in fact usually i'm complimented, even on runs like the last one. And when it had me doing 4-5% of the total damage all the way through, I know at least I'm doing something.
I guess my point is that most fights where you're healing, it is not incredibly hectic, having to spam big heals on the main tank and praying that no one else draws aggro. No, most fights you'll probably end up with several second gaps between when you have to heal, and a mana bar with mana still in it at the end. In such cases it's alright to throw out a few damage spells. If someone else is doing the majority of the healing even better, you have basically free reign, just remain alert, and make sure you have enough mana to save everyone if needed. As you get more levels though the convention of 1 tank 1 healer 3 dps becomes more and more important, and having 2 healers will often mean an absence of damage, so this situation will become rarer. Make the most of it!
So: you did nothing wrong; in my experience only the most immature of healers would rag on you in this situation (maybe I'm just in a good guild though); and I personally love shadow priests, they give me mana, and I have even seen a couple drop out of shadow form just to cast a heal when someone runs out of mana. A good shadow priest becomes a healer's best friend very quickly.
schweizi wrote:
"Some" ?
On last gruul the healing meter was hilarious;
-1. Our best equipped paladin
-2. Another pala I think
-3. Me being a shadowpriest dpsing
-4.-6. or 7. the rest of the <specced~!> healers.
3. on healing meters, first on dmg meter and even returning a very good bit of mana to my group... shadowpriests are so awesome xD
On last gruul the healing meter was hilarious;
-1. Our best equipped paladin
-2. Another pala I think
-3. Me being a shadowpriest dpsing
-4.-6. or 7. the rest of the <specced~!> healers.
3. on healing meters, first on dmg meter and even returning a very good bit of mana to my group... shadowpriests are so awesome xD
If you are ahead of the healing spec'd people as a shadow priest, tell them to stop sucking. No other way to put it :D
Hmm... just because a shadow priest has a higher healing than the Holy priests doesn't necessarily mean that the shadow priest was a better healer. I'd rather tank bosses with periodic 3K heals than a steady stream of 32 health per second. It doesn't seem necessarily crazy that the shadow priest healed for more than two other healers, as shadow priests also heal the other guys hit with AoE or such, whereas most other healers have their attention on the tank and few others.
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Hmm... just because a shadow priest has a higher healing than the Holy priests doesn't necessarily mean that the shadow priest was a better healer. I'd rather tank bosses with periodic 3K heals than a steady stream of 32 health per second. It doesn't seem necessarily crazy that the shadow priest healed for more than two other healers, as shadow priests also heal the other guys hit with AoE or such, whereas most other healers have their attention on the tank and few others.
Exactly, In a good situation you might actually out-heal or at least compete with the healers in the raid. I remember one time in a new guild we did netherspite, the healers only have to concentrate on the person in the red beam, meaning that my ve healed 9 other people while they healed 1. Once he was down I ended up first by about 20k healing or so and was 2nd on damage.
Edited, Oct 19th 2007 12:40am by electricwizard
Netherspite isn't really a good example. First of all, VE only hits your own group. Secondly, if you stay in the blue beam the whole time, you deal INSANE amounts of damage. I regularly break 2600dps portal phases. Your VE keeps an entire group up from the 2000 damage every 2 or 3 seconds, and there's no threat problems. In addition, the person in the red beam doesn't need healed half the time, because each new tick of the portal heals them to full, rather it's the person in the blue beam who needs lots of healing.
As to the person who was down on the healing meter: tell your nonpallies to stop being idiots and using flash heal -_- Also, be sure you're not reactively healing - you should always have a heal being cast, cancel it about .5-1 second before it lands if it's not needed, and start another one. Doesn't work so well on Shade or Curator group healing, but other than that, it's great.
Oh, and Raglu, it's not 32 health per second, it's more like... 225 :D making it actually better than Renew in many cases, except for aggro problems. BM is a really spriest-friendly instance, I'm usually not only the only one who has to drink but I usually top the effective healing meter just because of the mechanics :D
Edited, Oct 19th 2007 11:26am by lsfreak
As to the person who was down on the healing meter: tell your nonpallies to stop being idiots and using flash heal -_- Also, be sure you're not reactively healing - you should always have a heal being cast, cancel it about .5-1 second before it lands if it's not needed, and start another one. Doesn't work so well on Shade or Curator group healing, but other than that, it's great.
Oh, and Raglu, it's not 32 health per second, it's more like... 225 :D making it actually better than Renew in many cases, except for aggro problems. BM is a really spriest-friendly instance, I'm usually not only the only one who has to drink but I usually top the effective healing meter just because of the mechanics :D
Edited, Oct 19th 2007 11:26am by lsfreak
As far as PW:S is concerned, I view it more as a primary ability to use on non-tank classes (i.e. any class but druid (bear form), pally, warrior) because the shield gimps their rage generation (or damage taken, thus mana regained for paladins).
However, when I had to tank VC on my rogue (warrior was afk and we were impatient) shield was invaluable, and it also was nice when doing runs on my hunter the priest would throw a shield on me about 10 seconds after I trapped a mob, so when the trap broke I could take a hit without getting too much damage.
I don't really have a priest yet (well, level 10 atm) but just from what I've done on other classes, that's my impression of it.
However, when I had to tank VC on my rogue (warrior was afk and we were impatient) shield was invaluable, and it also was nice when doing runs on my hunter the priest would throw a shield on me about 10 seconds after I trapped a mob, so when the trap broke I could take a hit without getting too much damage.
I don't really have a priest yet (well, level 10 atm) but just from what I've done on other classes, that's my impression of it.
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