I cannot seem to beat any classes, whether I have my raid gear on or my pvp gear on. I have 9k hp and 261 resilience, with 717 spell damage.
One match in arena there was a BM hunter, I was dead before I could even move. Warriors are a problem for me, with them trinketing out of frost nova and 3 shotting me.
And here is the kicker I lost to a holy priest. We were both at full health and mana. The priest 10k health and 8k mana, me 9k health 8k mana. I started by sheeping him, and hit him with a fireball and fireblast. Then CS his flash heal, the priest then ran and feared me, before I could break it with wotf he ran away from me and waited for CS to wear off. So we were going like this for like 3 minutes, I also used dragons breath to stop his heals temporarily. I never manage to get him below half health. And all that time he kept that damage dot on me. So it ended up he was at full health with 800mana left and I was at 1k and 1k mana. So I sheeped him ran away and used invisibility. While I was invisible he saw me and put a that dot on me and I ended up dieing with the lack of being able to heal myself. I even used bandages and the healing trinket.
Is fire spec really this bad for pvp, or do I just suck. Because everytime it is one on one I end up losing.
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Sheeping will cause his health to regenerate quickly. I'm a frost mage so I can't speak to much else. Post your armory and the fire mages among us will be better able to help you.
You will probably hear a lot us say that frost is much better for PVP.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Quel%27dorei&n=Varilhigh
You will probably hear a lot us say that frost is much better for PVP.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Quel%27dorei&n=Varilhigh
Wow... The more I read about mage's PvP the more it looks like mages need some serious work from Blizzards side or some exceptional skills from the Player's side to perform well in Arenas/BGs. So far (lvl 18, lvl 28) BGs I have done were very good to me - I was able to take some people down, I was taken down myself, there has been times when I dominated someone, there has been times when I was dominated (pallys and shamans I am looking at you), but overall it was not that bad at all. And lately all I read on forums is how mages are being chopped in pieces by ANY class. Healers outlast us, melee kill us, we can't get to ranged w/o dying, locks kill us. Is everything REALLY that bad in end-game PvP for mages?
I am sorry for OT, but I just can not believe it. There has to be a reason for people performing poorly as a mage.
I am sorry for OT, but I just can not believe it. There has to be a reason for people performing poorly as a mage.
lol. At lower levels, mages don't really have the skills to survive, and twink rogues can spam sinister strike and destroy you. Mages are great ranged damage dealers, so later on, kiting is fun/important.
I tell you what, I am a heavy arcane build right now (taking advantage of the MSD + LC before it gets nerfed) and I have been destroying people in the battlegrounds. I have been close to the top in damage in AV before as frost or fire spec, but now I'm getting the top spot in killing blows, which is new for me. It is flat out fun and exciting (doesn't hurt that my AM can crit for 1.3K per tic and they come at you frequently every 1/2 second).
Ah, well, thus the nerf. I'm going to continue playing it after the patch to see how much of a nerf it really is (the MSD nerf) because the mana regen buff might be enough for me to keep arcane while raiding.
FYI, I'm at 8K health, 1K spell damage and 13 resilience. ;-)
For Arenas, I tend to lag behind so I don't get focus fired in the first 2 seconds of the fight, but then, my arena rating sucks bad, so I may not be the best person to listen to about arenas. ;-)
I tell you what, I am a heavy arcane build right now (taking advantage of the MSD + LC before it gets nerfed) and I have been destroying people in the battlegrounds. I have been close to the top in damage in AV before as frost or fire spec, but now I'm getting the top spot in killing blows, which is new for me. It is flat out fun and exciting (doesn't hurt that my AM can crit for 1.3K per tic and they come at you frequently every 1/2 second).
Ah, well, thus the nerf. I'm going to continue playing it after the patch to see how much of a nerf it really is (the MSD nerf) because the mana regen buff might be enough for me to keep arcane while raiding.
FYI, I'm at 8K health, 1K spell damage and 13 resilience. ;-)
For Arenas, I tend to lag behind so I don't get focus fired in the first 2 seconds of the fight, but then, my arena rating sucks bad, so I may not be the best person to listen to about arenas. ;-)
XodoK wrote:
Wow... The more I read about mage's PvP the more it looks like mages need some serious work from Blizzards side or some exceptional skills from the Player's side to perform well in Arenas/BGs.
It would be a mistake to put both in the same category. Arenas don't favour mages in the small formats, BGs however provide both the space and often the player density required for mages to play to their strengths, in this case snaring, AoE and ranged damage. While you may see other classes rating higher in their personal scores in damage and KB dealt than mages, applying their strengths at the right times can and will do a lot more to advance team progress than 1v1 kills.
The major BG weakness stems from the fact that you need to stand still to use most of these strengths, leaving you at the mercy of a smart hunter or rogues (who thrive on casters).
ktangent wrote:
I have been close to the top in damage in AV before as frost or fire spec, but now I'm getting the top spot in killing blows
Get better healers in your battlegroup. Seriously. Just by being a tad smart, I have zero issues outliving anyone and ending up top of KB and Healing Done meters with my relatively sucky gear (+1k healing with talents) in AV. Not scoffing at your achievements, but I absolutely don't have to even think about it while simply doing my job and keeping my team alive, whereas you have to work your **** off for it.
So basically for PvP purposes mages are better off with maximizing the efficiency of their instant cast spells (CoC, Ica lance, Fire Blast)? I meen if we can not afford standing still and getting these frost/fire bolts off we have to work around it, correct?
Which PvP? That is the key question.
Unless you are 41 fire, or POM/Pyro, you will experience a lot of difficulty in PVP. POM/Pyro gets worse as your opponents gear/health/resil get better.
Deep fire is nice. It has a good amount of control, relatively short instant cooldowns, etc.
But it still lacks survivability. Fire is a kill them before they can think. And if you are in a tight space or just cannot seem to get distance, you can get in trouble.
Sadly, deep frost is really the only way to go nowadays to pack a punch and still have a great amount of survival.
Deep fire is nice. It has a good amount of control, relatively short instant cooldowns, etc.
But it still lacks survivability. Fire is a kill them before they can think. And if you are in a tight space or just cannot seem to get distance, you can get in trouble.
Sadly, deep frost is really the only way to go nowadays to pack a punch and still have a great amount of survival.
Thats exactly my problem i am deep fire spec 10/48/3 and these guys with 10k hp in arena (which is all I see) I can't seem to burn them down.
One if they have a lot of resilience I dont have enough mana to kill them. Two if they are able to heal themselves I can't kill them. If they try to heal themselves I CS spell them and all the good players just run away, and wait for their CS to where off.
The only time we win is if were able to burn someone down together. Which rarely happens, because of all the fears and CC and we just get separated.
Im on a 2v2 team with a 1464 rating.
This happens in all my pvp, I just can't seem to be able to kill any class 1v1, whether I get a jump on them or not. And I know I really suck at pvp but I would like to get my rating up.
One if they have a lot of resilience I dont have enough mana to kill them. Two if they are able to heal themselves I can't kill them. If they try to heal themselves I CS spell them and all the good players just run away, and wait for their CS to where off.
The only time we win is if were able to burn someone down together. Which rarely happens, because of all the fears and CC and we just get separated.
Im on a 2v2 team with a 1464 rating.
This happens in all my pvp, I just can't seem to be able to kill any class 1v1, whether I get a jump on them or not. And I know I really suck at pvp but I would like to get my rating up.
My best advice, is to read your classes forums on worldofwarcraft.com
Also, read your teammates forums. It's just as important to know your partners tricks as yours.
Lastly, read up everyones class forums. If you can predict when and where your enemy will use a move, you will be able to counter it, or react to it faster.
arenajunkies.com is a valuable forum where 2000+ ranked players discuss all aspects of arena. Give that place a try and read up.
Next, all I can advise, is it sounds like you have a raid spec. 10/48/3 is a cookie cutter top dps build. Not a pvp build. It will require much more skill to utilize the fire tree in safety. Give Frost a try and you should see your pvp performance go up (it has nice burst too. Frostbolt> pet nova> ice lance> your nova> fireblast> ice lance is a lot of burst).
Also, read your teammates forums. It's just as important to know your partners tricks as yours.
Lastly, read up everyones class forums. If you can predict when and where your enemy will use a move, you will be able to counter it, or react to it faster.
arenajunkies.com is a valuable forum where 2000+ ranked players discuss all aspects of arena. Give that place a try and read up.
Next, all I can advise, is it sounds like you have a raid spec. 10/48/3 is a cookie cutter top dps build. Not a pvp build. It will require much more skill to utilize the fire tree in safety. Give Frost a try and you should see your pvp performance go up (it has nice burst too. Frostbolt> pet nova> ice lance> your nova> fireblast> ice lance is a lot of burst).
10/48/3 is a "raid" build and isn't exactly optimal for dueling or any kind of arena except maybe 5v5. If ur hard pressed to win duels you need to change your spec to atleast contain ICS 17/41/3 ( if u want to stay fire ), but as everyone knows an ice spec is optimal for PvP due to your increased chance of survival. Basicly to answer the thread topic of "what your doing wrong" you need a spec better suited PvP combat.
There are some really good threads even one thats stickied that have a tremendous amount of build info. I would suggest taking some time read and find one suited for your needs or even PTR for awhile to play around with builds if u cant afford all the respec's.
good luck
There are some really good threads even one thats stickied that have a tremendous amount of build info. I would suggest taking some time read and find one suited for your needs or even PTR for awhile to play around with builds if u cant afford all the respec's.
good luck
the spec is a big issue. If you wanna be fire and still PvP often PoM is a must. One thing that alot of fire mages forget about in PvP is that you STILL have frost spells and those will STILL slow them down. Feel free to hit cone of cold whenever you can hit 1 or 2 people. But without PoM that still leaves the fact that scorch and fireblast are your only 2 main weapons. But you do still have blastwave, arc explo, and icelance for when you nova them. Don't forget about the other schools of magic just because you don't have the points there.
BTW.. my new favorite thing to do in arena is to hit invis right at start and follow a melee class out. Once you see him attacking somone stand right by him and hit nova.. Comming out of nowhere really throws the other team off. Usually 1 or 2 of the other guys is off looking for you and you can take someone on 2 on 1... it's really fun :)
BTW.. my new favorite thing to do in arena is to hit invis right at start and follow a melee class out. Once you see him attacking somone stand right by him and hit nova.. Comming out of nowhere really throws the other team off. Usually 1 or 2 of the other guys is off looking for you and you can take someone on 2 on 1... it's really fun :)
So basically if I am spec 10/48/3 I have no chance in pvp. And if I go spec frost there would be a better chance of succeeding.
One of my favorite tricks, is when you see a mage cast pom, i love to use spell steal and hit him with an instant cast. Maybe I need to play my alts more, because the class that I have the greatest chance of killing is another mage.
Oh well time to spend 100g on respecs every week.
One of my favorite tricks, is when you see a mage cast pom, i love to use spell steal and hit him with an instant cast. Maybe I need to play my alts more, because the class that I have the greatest chance of killing is another mage.
Oh well time to spend 100g on respecs every week.
I only really read the OP, but I think there's a few tricks you're not using.
As a fire spec, always open with sheep, always.
Against casters you need to stay as close as possible, as you will be using DB to interrupt->scorch->fireblast as a large portion of your damage/interruption.
Don't forget combustion, any time will do.
You did mention two of the harder classes to kill though, you're basically defenseless against bm hunters, but just stick really close to them and use instants, that's all you can do.
Priests are all about having enough burst to force them to heal instead of mana burn. You can't outlast a holy priest (or any healer for that matter). So if you do 3-5k right on top of a sheeped priest, he'll start healing, you can cs or db, and it's over.
Good luck, hope my early morning post helps.
As a fire spec, always open with sheep, always.
Against casters you need to stay as close as possible, as you will be using DB to interrupt->scorch->fireblast as a large portion of your damage/interruption.
Don't forget combustion, any time will do.
You did mention two of the harder classes to kill though, you're basically defenseless against bm hunters, but just stick really close to them and use instants, that's all you can do.
Priests are all about having enough burst to force them to heal instead of mana burn. You can't outlast a holy priest (or any healer for that matter). So if you do 3-5k right on top of a sheeped priest, he'll start healing, you can cs or db, and it's over.
Good luck, hope my early morning post helps.
Mages are awesome in pvp, but generally only in 17/0/44 and 45/16/0 specs.
If you are deep fire however, you are most deadly with this combo:
Sheep or nova a melee (or if a mage, priest or lock, cs)
Fireball
Run towards target
Dragon's breath
Scorch
Fireblast
Blastwave
Nova and icelance
When I was frost mage, I've duelled a few fire mages who knew how to do this well, and it HURTS. If you pull it off, they're most likely dead if you have at least a few epics.
Good luck
If you are deep fire however, you are most deadly with this combo:
Sheep or nova a melee (or if a mage, priest or lock, cs)
Fireball
Run towards target
Dragon's breath
Scorch
Fireblast
Blastwave
Nova and icelance
When I was frost mage, I've duelled a few fire mages who knew how to do this well, and it HURTS. If you pull it off, they're most likely dead if you have at least a few epics.
Good luck
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