Everyone's been talking about the (unjustified) Elemental shaman nerfs in 2.3, but I don't think anyone has mentioned the nerf to Grounding Totem.
It used to be that when you pop the totem, any harmful spells that don't do direct damage immediately (i.e. some DoTs or curses) would be absorbed, but would not destroy the totem ("Immune" would flash across the enemy player's screen). But now, that's all changed...in the 2.3 patch notes, it says "Grounding Totem: This totem is now destroyed upon redirecting any spell to itself." (link)
What do you think? Is this a justified nerf to the sometimes-called-OP Grounding Totem, or is this completely unjustified and reduce our PvP viability even more?
P.S. Anyone know the origin of the terms "nerf" and "buff?" Because I have no clue whatsoever.
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2.3 Grounding Totem NerfFollow
Ever seen those little Nerf kids toys? The ones with foam swords/bats, or guns that shoot foam darts with little sticky things on them?
The exact origin of the term isn't clear (no direct quotes), but it was something on the lines of "The change was like the developers coming in to take away my nice shiny sword and giving me a Nerf bat, then telling me to go out and fight the monsters". After that, you get "to nerf", "being nerfed" or "being hit with a nerf bat" which is a somewhat mangled association with the original toys.
The exact origin of the term isn't clear (no direct quotes), but it was something on the lines of "The change was like the developers coming in to take away my nice shiny sword and giving me a Nerf bat, then telling me to go out and fight the monsters". After that, you get "to nerf", "being nerfed" or "being hit with a nerf bat" which is a somewhat mangled association with the original toys.
Ever hear of a Nerf gun? It hurts a lot less than a real gun. A Nerf football is the same idea. Buff, bodybuilders like Jay Cutler are examples of buff. Get the picture yet? As for the Nerf to the totem, check out the warrior nerfs and get back to me. lol
Heh...I was thinking that they had something to do with Nerf toys, and being "buff" like Arno (lol), but I couldn't make the connection w/ the toys. Thanks Zip.
Anyways...anyone have any thoughts on the changes to the totem?
EDIT: OK I don't have a warrior, so I don't get it...what nerfs?
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 5:15pm by GWynand
Anyways...anyone have any thoughts on the changes to the totem?
EDIT: OK I don't have a warrior, so I don't get it...what nerfs?
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 5:15pm by GWynand
This will hurt in PvP. Nothing good's comin' outta this one for Shamans.
Warrior nerfs? I think the bad one is they are no longer immune to disarm effects.
Warrior nerfs? I think the bad one is they are no longer immune to disarm effects.
Our PvE got nerfed, PvP got (ironically) buffed somewhat. Mace Spec nerfed a bit, but Death Wish got moved to the Arms Tree for some reason... which doesn't mean much to PvP Warriors since they get it anyway, but it does nerf Fury PvE.
I'm mystified.
I'm mystified.
Groudning Totem still works, however, in that a spell with travel time (shadowbolt), followed by an instant-cast, instant-landing spell (shadowburn, most DoT's) will eat both of them. It's a bug, but I doubt it will ever be fixed, since the totem is still "in existence" and can therefore redirect spells to it while the Sbolt is still traveling.
lsfreak wrote:
Groudning Totem still works, however, in that a spell with travel time (shadowbolt), followed by an instant-cast, instant-landing spell (shadowburn, most DoT's) will eat both of them. It's a bug, but I doubt it will ever be fixed, since the totem is still "in existence" and can therefore redirect spells to it while the Sbolt is still traveling.
If this is the case, the totem isn't totally nerfed...OK, I'm a bit more optimistic now =D Thanks.
Well, it's always done that, nothing's actually changed. I'm just glad I'm a priest and don't have travel-time spells :D
Edited, Oct 15th 2007 3:55pm by lsfreak
Edited, Oct 15th 2007 3:55pm by lsfreak
That's not possible to fix with the game mechanics - Warrior Spell Reflect works the same way, and it's only supposed to ever bounce one target back. What it does presumably mean though is that if you get Death Coiled (or SW:P or similar) the totem will expire, rather than surviving and reapplying the Grounding Totem buff every ~5s until it does eat something it's not immune to.
RPZip wrote:
That's not possible to fix with the game mechanics - Warrior Spell Reflect works the same way, and it's only supposed to ever bounce one target back. What it does presumably mean though is that if you get Death Coiled (or SW:P or similar) the totem will expire, rather than surviving and reapplying the Grounding Totem buff every ~5s until it does eat something it's not immune to.
Well, that's always been one of the great things about it -- it's immune to DoTs, and to fear. No longer, it seems.
Edited, Oct 15th 2007 7:25pm by GWynand
I think its kind of unfair.
It's not a huge issue but it is annoying given the limitations of our mana pool as it is and the fact that replacing the totem will trigger the GCD again. Not a huge issue though IMO.
Im wondering if i should respec enhancement or resto due to the nerf... =(
and nerfing me before an aff lock is completely retarded!!!! >=(
and nerfing me before an aff lock is completely retarded!!!! >=(
Ok, I'm not too sure about the grounding totem nerf but...
I would not call the 2.3 patch to be a nerf to elemental shamans. I believe the correct term should be "tweaking" or "rebalancing" or even "redesigning" the talents.
After reading the 2.3 patch notes for Shamans, it did not strike me as a nerf at all. Of course that is only my opinion...
GWynand wrote:
Everyone's been talking about the (unjustified) Elemental shaman nerfs in 2.3
I would not call the 2.3 patch to be a nerf to elemental shamans. I believe the correct term should be "tweaking" or "rebalancing" or even "redesigning" the talents.
After reading the 2.3 patch notes for Shamans, it did not strike me as a nerf at all. Of course that is only my opinion...
Quote:
I would not call the 2.3 patch to be a nerf to elemental shamans. I believe the correct term should be "tweaking" or "rebalancing" or even "redesigning" the talents.
After reading the 2.3 patch notes for Shamans, it did not strike me as a nerf at all. Of course that is only my opinion...
We'll have to see how it plays out in game but on paper the base damage of the elemental shaman has been hit pretty hard.
Dread Lord SunSoarer wrote:
Quote:
I would not call the 2.3 patch to be a nerf to elemental shamans. I believe the correct term should be "tweaking" or "rebalancing" or even "redesigning" the talents.
After reading the 2.3 patch notes for Shamans, it did not strike me as a nerf at all. Of course that is only my opinion...
We'll have to see how it plays out in game but on paper the base damage of the elemental shaman has been hit pretty hard.
You're right SunSoarer (ZOMG!1!111111oneoneone!!!! I am so surprised!).
This could be a buff, but we'll have to wait for the news from the PTR to come back for real...until then it's pure speculation (+theorycrafting/math).
EDIT: dis is teh suck!
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 5:25pm by GWynand
To be honest, after playing against Shaman teams on my Warlock, grounding totem *required* this nerf.
As an Affliction Warlock, instant DoTs are basically what I cast, along with Fear and Unstable Affliction. Grounding totem, while easily destroyed with a wand, cannot easily be seen in a hectic Arena battle and until 2.3, could not be spotted without a Mage casting Detect Magic (imagine that...).
One totem therefore renders the entire team *immune* to DoTs and direct Fear spells, and this effect is replenished every ~3secs or so *for every group member*. I also have a 65 Shaman and I know Grounding isnt up to much, but one little spell shouldnt make a whole team invincible to DoTs, that wasnt the purpose behind it.
I hate to sound like a Blizz fanboy, but its not a nerf, its a fix, and long overdue.
As an Affliction Warlock, instant DoTs are basically what I cast, along with Fear and Unstable Affliction. Grounding totem, while easily destroyed with a wand, cannot easily be seen in a hectic Arena battle and until 2.3, could not be spotted without a Mage casting Detect Magic (imagine that...).
One totem therefore renders the entire team *immune* to DoTs and direct Fear spells, and this effect is replenished every ~3secs or so *for every group member*. I also have a 65 Shaman and I know Grounding isnt up to much, but one little spell shouldnt make a whole team invincible to DoTs, that wasnt the purpose behind it.
I hate to sound like a Blizz fanboy, but its not a nerf, its a fix, and long overdue.
Sinstralis wrote:
To be honest, after playing against Shaman teams on my Warlock, grounding totem *required* this nerf.
As an Affliction Warlock, instant DoTs are basically what I cast, along with Fear and Unstable Affliction. Grounding totem, while easily destroyed with a wand, cannot easily be seen in a hectic Arena battle and until 2.3, could not be spotted without a Mage casting Detect Magic (imagine that...).
One totem therefore renders the entire team *immune* to DoTs and direct Fear spells, and this effect is replenished every ~3secs or so *for every group member*. I also have a 65 Shaman and I know Grounding isnt up to much, but one little spell shouldnt make a whole team invincible to DoTs, that wasnt the purpose behind it.
I hate to sound like a Blizz fanboy, but its not a nerf, its a fix, and long overdue.
As an Affliction Warlock, instant DoTs are basically what I cast, along with Fear and Unstable Affliction. Grounding totem, while easily destroyed with a wand, cannot easily be seen in a hectic Arena battle and until 2.3, could not be spotted without a Mage casting Detect Magic (imagine that...).
One totem therefore renders the entire team *immune* to DoTs and direct Fear spells, and this effect is replenished every ~3secs or so *for every group member*. I also have a 65 Shaman and I know Grounding isnt up to much, but one little spell shouldnt make a whole team invincible to DoTs, that wasnt the purpose behind it.
I hate to sound like a Blizz fanboy, but its not a nerf, its a fix, and long overdue.
Your argument is persuasive. I'm impressed.
Well, I think that a compromise is due; Blizzard did what it thought was the *best*. While I may not agree, they did something that (as Sinstralis pointed out) was needed. GJ Blizz (no sarcasm intended).
29 posts
Odd, the totem info said it pulses every 10 secs, not evey "few" secs, so it would swallow the first spell but the next spells would land until the 10 sec 'cooldown'. I've always seen this happen, second spell always hits.
No chance the tremor totem could be fixed so it does the job more often than now, the thing can't be trusted to do its job. Thought not ...
Edited, Oct 31st 2007 5:02am by ddickie
No chance the tremor totem could be fixed so it does the job more often than now, the thing can't be trusted to do its job. Thought not ...
Edited, Oct 31st 2007 5:02am by ddickie
I have to agree with Sinstalis on this one. I play both a Shaman and an Affliction Warlock, and one Totem should not render an entire spec obsolete. Granted an Affliction Lock is not entirely limited to DoT's and Fear, but really that's what you are there for and good at.
In the end, however, we'll see how the rebalance pans out in gameplay. It looks good on paper, but... we'll see.
In the end, however, we'll see how the rebalance pans out in gameplay. It looks good on paper, but... we'll see.
I wish they changed it to grounding totem worked kind of like stoneclaw totem for magic. Give it some health so it can "absorb x amount of magical damage" and then you have a grounding totem that could stay up awhile and continue to redirect magic until it hits a limit on the amount of damage it has taken.
That would make it so it isn't immune and would last a bit longer than it does now. Just sucks... one DoT goes off and it is gone. It is nearly useless in pvp unless you run into someone alone. PVE it isn't too bad because you can use it to alternate between earth shocks (and earth shock between grounding totems) so you don't even take damage.
That would make it so it isn't immune and would last a bit longer than it does now. Just sucks... one DoT goes off and it is gone. It is nearly useless in pvp unless you run into someone alone. PVE it isn't too bad because you can use it to alternate between earth shocks (and earth shock between grounding totems) so you don't even take damage.
Quote:
One totem therefore renders the entire team *immune* to DoTs and direct Fear spells, and this effect is replenished every ~3secs or so *for every group member*. I also have a 65 Shaman and I know Grounding isnt up to much, but one little spell shouldnt make a whole team invincible to DoTs, that wasnt the purpose behind it.
First of all the cooldown is 10 sec's not 3. Second of all the totem has a limited range and will only redirect one spell before either being destroyed or shutting down for 10 secs. So it will nullify the first fear/dot and have no effect whatsoever on the next 6 (assuming they are cast back to back). If the spell was direct damage it will have been destroyed and another totem cannot be dropped for 15 seconds (that's 10 spells). It has no effect on AoE spells including AoE fears (also note that the result of an AoE fear is usually that the whole party is now out of the totems range and without its protection).
On top of all that the totem only has 5 HP's and is easily destroyed by a pet or wand. As far as being hard to spot/target... Learn2Macro.
one note on the hard to spot totems. learn to tab. i seem to keep finding totems on my characters as I use tab to switch between targets and some if not most current spells don't work on it. stuff like dots consider it currently immune. and casting a direct damage or wand take a bit of extra tweaking from a warlock's point of view.
Edited, Nov 4th 2007 7:30pm by Addermine
Edited, Nov 4th 2007 7:30pm by Addermine
the problem with your argument sinistralis is that you can alleviate your problem with a simple macro. /target grounding plus a wand attack (or a normal swing if youre close enough) eliminates the totem easily. with the exception of stoneclaw totem, all totems can be killed by critters on account of their 5 hp.
blizzard is touting this change as a bug fix more than anything. for years shaman have considered grounding totem to be "broken as intended", so this may be blizzards way of finally fixing it to work as they want it to work. i cant say i like it, but blizzard is blizzard, and i trust theres a method to their madness, even if it seems like theyre all just crazy.
blizzard is touting this change as a bug fix more than anything. for years shaman have considered grounding totem to be "broken as intended", so this may be blizzards way of finally fixing it to work as they want it to work. i cant say i like it, but blizzard is blizzard, and i trust theres a method to their madness, even if it seems like theyre all just crazy.
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