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AP and Bleed affectsFollow
How does AP alter Bleed affects (I.E. Rip/Rake)? Also why are some people saying that Rake is a waste of energy?
http://www.wowwiki.com/Rake <- all about Rake
http://www.wowwiki.com/Rip <- all about Rip
Both pages have exact formulas for AP <-> damage scaling of Rip and Rake.
Why Rake is believed to be a waste of energy?
- It deals less than Claw on almost any mob except really well armored ones.
- Costs 5 energy points less (b'cause it deals less), but unless you're planning to use it again (and waste it's DOT, which means... waste of energy) or use Ferocious Bite (which costs 35 but is usually a bad move, but answering "why" is for another thread unless you ask here...) you have nothing to do with the 5 points... which kinda suxx. Well that unless the fight is so long that you can use rake again, but then again - you are either a) dieing because you're wasting your time on the mob with Rakes or b) someone else is tanking that elite, in which case you should ask yourself "why the hell am I not using shred instead of thinking bout Rakes?".
Where Rake can be used to a good effect?
- Against Rogues so they don't stay in stealth should they try to get into it (but still it's kinda meh, because you have a 45 sec no-stealthing-u-****** debuff called Faerie Fire)
- For building up combo points on really well armored targets, where Claw just can't do anything near the definition of "serious damage". In such cases Rake allows you to bleed the target, with some initial damage (which can crit giving you extra CP <primal fury required> and which, like the skill's dot bleed damage, is buffed by Mangle). Second, it allows for a Faster 5CP Rip, because 4 Rakes = 4 times 5 duty-free Energy points = 20 Energy = 1 Energy tick = 2 seconds in Favor of that Rip. It isn't usually worth it though, unless you're at lvl 66 trying to punch that lvl 70 Warrior... from the front... for some reason... meh.
Edited, Oct 13th 2007 10:37pm by XanNerull
http://www.wowwiki.com/Rip <- all about Rip
Both pages have exact formulas for AP <-> damage scaling of Rip and Rake.
Why Rake is believed to be a waste of energy?
- It deals less than Claw on almost any mob except really well armored ones.
- Costs 5 energy points less (b'cause it deals less), but unless you're planning to use it again (and waste it's DOT, which means... waste of energy) or use Ferocious Bite (which costs 35 but is usually a bad move, but answering "why" is for another thread unless you ask here...) you have nothing to do with the 5 points... which kinda suxx. Well that unless the fight is so long that you can use rake again, but then again - you are either a) dieing because you're wasting your time on the mob with Rakes or b) someone else is tanking that elite, in which case you should ask yourself "why the hell am I not using shred instead of thinking bout Rakes?".
Where Rake can be used to a good effect?
- Against Rogues so they don't stay in stealth should they try to get into it (but still it's kinda meh, because you have a 45 sec no-stealthing-u-****** debuff called Faerie Fire)
- For building up combo points on really well armored targets, where Claw just can't do anything near the definition of "serious damage". In such cases Rake allows you to bleed the target, with some initial damage (which can crit giving you extra CP <primal fury required> and which, like the skill's dot bleed damage, is buffed by Mangle). Second, it allows for a Faster 5CP Rip, because 4 Rakes = 4 times 5 duty-free Energy points = 20 Energy = 1 Energy tick = 2 seconds in Favor of that Rip. It isn't usually worth it though, unless you're at lvl 66 trying to punch that lvl 70 Warrior... from the front... for some reason... meh.
Edited, Oct 13th 2007 10:37pm by XanNerull
Quote:
- Against Rogues so they don't stay in stealth should they try to get into it (but still it's kinda meh, because you have a 45 sec no-stealthing-u-****** debuff called Faerie Fire)
It's 40secs, actually, and usually if the Rogue is persistent on stealthing, activate Cloak of Shadows and this would be removed. Hence Rake (and Rip) is a much more reliable way of keeping that Rogue visible.
Thank you for the info X. I figured my damage before mangle for rack as about 210 so thats not that bad but again not that great when I'm looking at 1k+ shred crits.... but the infrequency of those crits is what bothers me. Even with a 25+ crit chance I can't bank on that crit coming out to make my DPS. ether way it has a place I just need to toy with it and find that place.
Now for another question: Claw and Mangle cost the same so why use claw?
EDIT: I looked up my talents and saw the cost reduction in the 1st teir -_-; but still 35 vs 40 isn't THAT much when you are shredding a mob, just wait an extra sec.
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 10:11am by Sloniah
Now for another question: Claw and Mangle cost the same so why use claw?
EDIT: I looked up my talents and saw the cost reduction in the 1st teir -_-; but still 35 vs 40 isn't THAT much when you are shredding a mob, just wait an extra sec.
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 10:11am by Sloniah
Why use Claw when you got mangle? There is no answer to that, because there is no reason to do so.
Mangle >>>> Claw, period.
Maybe that is why it is the 41st talent in Feral tree? ;]
For the new question: with the feral must-have talents it is:
- Rake = 35 En.
- Claw/Mangle = 40 En.
- Shred = 42 En.
As I said, using Rake is rarely sensible, so no need to refer to your 'just wait an extra sec'. If that extra sec (to be precise, 2 seconds) are important, you'll use Rake. Again, that's almost never.
When you're behind a mob or playing against a player, it's obvious you should use Shred. Kitty has +30% movement speed 'just like that', so you can always outmanoeuvre you target in a way to land a Shred, and since Shred deals twice the Claw/Mangle damage... it's a no-brainer. Of course you should have the Mangle debuff always on your target, but once it is on, Shred/Rip to death or Shred/Fero to finish off when he's low.
Mangle >>>> Claw, period.
Maybe that is why it is the 41st talent in Feral tree? ;]
For the new question: with the feral must-have talents it is:
- Rake = 35 En.
- Claw/Mangle = 40 En.
- Shred = 42 En.
As I said, using Rake is rarely sensible, so no need to refer to your 'just wait an extra sec'. If that extra sec (to be precise, 2 seconds) are important, you'll use Rake. Again, that's almost never.
When you're behind a mob or playing against a player, it's obvious you should use Shred. Kitty has +30% movement speed 'just like that', so you can always outmanoeuvre you target in a way to land a Shred, and since Shred deals twice the Claw/Mangle damage... it's a no-brainer. Of course you should have the Mangle debuff always on your target, but once it is on, Shred/Rip to death or Shred/Fero to finish off when he's low.
thank you again X.
Claw was yanked off my action bar the minute I respecced full feral at 50 and will never return as long as I stay feral.
Rip is excellent on mobs with high health as you are dependent upon crits for ferocious bite to do more damage than rip is capable of doing. Since rip ignores armor and presently for me at 68 a 5-charge ticks for about 440 (with mangle active), you get 6 ticks at 440 damage for a guaranteed total of 2640 damage (for me) after 12 seconds. A 5-charge ferocious bite crit using 40-45 energy averages 2300 (non-crits 900-1100), but an extra energy tick or omen proc can push that over 3k - but again the FB has to crit to surpass rip damage.
Rip is excellent on mobs with high health as you are dependent upon crits for ferocious bite to do more damage than rip is capable of doing. Since rip ignores armor and presently for me at 68 a 5-charge ticks for about 440 (with mangle active), you get 6 ticks at 440 damage for a guaranteed total of 2640 damage (for me) after 12 seconds. A 5-charge ferocious bite crit using 40-45 energy averages 2300 (non-crits 900-1100), but an extra energy tick or omen proc can push that over 3k - but again the FB has to crit to surpass rip damage.
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