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Damn Feral DruidsFollow

#1 Oct 13 2007 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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Okay, so i have a serious problem in PvP. All feral druids (particularly in kitty form) rip me to shreds with little I can do in retaliation. This is mostly a problem in 1v1, 2v2 or the occasional BG encounter.

-They shapeshift out of my traps (or trinket out) making escape very, very difficult.
-Wing clip and scatter shot are usually trinketed or they use their kitty sprint (with wing clip anyway).
-Even with popping things like deterrence I'm having little luck staying alive long enough to hurt them or escape by any means.
-In the rare cases I do get away they pop into bear-form and charge me (or whatever it may be called)
-And in the even rarer cases in which I get them nearly dead they pop into humanoid form and heal themselves up (this isn't quite as big an issue since I have silencing shot but still)

I guess this may be a whine sort of. I'm not trying to suggest or ask for druid nerfs (like that'll ever happen)

More than anything I'm looking for you're anti-druid strategies. Hearing strategies from all specs' point-of-view and if the problem is mine alone then I guess I should L2Play.

My thanks go out to you all in advance.
#2 Oct 13 2007 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
Coming from someone who have both a druid and a hunter, there are a lot to say but first of all your not the right specc (not that the other speccs will do much better but still )to beat a feral druid.

If you ever beat a feral druid is because of his lack of skill, not because you have many tools against him, they simply don't let you kite them, and they have many skills to keep you close, ER, Nature Grasp for pet, Feral Charge, And dash.

If you used deterrence it means that you stayed too much in their range, try to avoid that as much as possible (yes i know is hard), and for all means don't let him get your back, shred hurts like hell, sometimes aspect of the cheetah can help until his closing in, kitty with talent have the same speed with a hunter in aspect of the cheetah.

If he using dash from start, concussive shot him, try to outlast his dash, if the dash is over, freezing trap he will trinket, and after that you should wingclip. He have nothing else to come to you except feral charge but feral charge means switching to caster and then to kitty a lot of mana used and 1 sec at least to act, the weekness of FG is the dead zone of 8 yards and max 25, try to be in one of those ranges when he goes in teddy form.

No, a nerf don't bring nothing more then whines and nerves, think about the poor droods, is not enough that they are forced to heal in end game raids ?




#3 Oct 13 2007 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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Have you tried scare beast?
#4 Oct 13 2007 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Have you tried scare beast?


I've yet to meet any druid silly enough to stay in their form long enough for me to pull that off (or let me last long enough to pull it off)
#5 Oct 13 2007 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
The cast time on Scare Beast is really too long to be used in Arena. Assuming you have nobody on you disrupting your cast, it can help get that Frenzied ravager off of your healer before something goes very wrong, but those situations are exceptionally rare.

I went up against a couple of different feral druids tonight in Arena, and neither one of them were very good. The first one unstealthed behind me and found himself in a frost trap...where he stayed for the duration of the trap effect. The second one stayed in bear form the entire fight and after we downed his Shammy healer, we pounded the everloving snot out of him. He never once popped out to heal or try to do anything else (probably because he figured it was hopeless given that he was down to a 1 v 3 scenario, but he also did nothing to bail out his Shammy friend while our warrior and shammy healer flattened him).
#6 Oct 13 2007 at 10:38 PM Rating: Good
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Personally I have so many tools at my hands to prevent people from getting to me I don't have much of a problem with it. Between my traps, concussive shot, wing clip, intimidation, the trinkets I have and the massive damage I do they never really get close enough to kill me if I spot them first.

That said, if they get the jump on you try your best to get distance and at the very least throw down a trap or a wing clip. Slipping in and out of forms might slow them down just enough to save the flag carrier in wsg or prevent that particular druid from getting towards a base.

I'm curious, what spec are you? As a BM my pet is usually doing enough damage in the background for me to only need to get a few shots off to kill them and doing his part in stunning them via Intimidation.
#7 Oct 14 2007 at 2:39 AM Rating: Decent
Too bad that our OP is MM and he lacks intimidation.
#8 Oct 14 2007 at 5:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Theory on beating feral druids:
1: feral druids can get rid of a lot of things through shapeshifting.
Good druids do that, if (s)he doesnt its a free kill.
2: Shapeshifting costs mana. (40% of base mana cost, and feral druids arent known for their huge mana pools ;) )
no mana = no shapeshifitng, no shifting = dead druid.
No mana also means no healing.


Simply said, try to force the druid to shapeshift as much as you can.
Because an oom druid is a dead druid (especially in casterform).

Exactly how to do all that ask more experienced PvOers ;)
#9 Oct 14 2007 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
I can't really answer as an experienced PvOer (hehe) with my Hunter, since my Hunter haven't really played too much against a Druid. I don't know why, but it so rarely happens. But as a Druid, I can say Aethien hit it right on the head. Two words: Crowd Control. A Druid can escape most Crowd Controls by Shapeshifting. Any Druid who is CC'd will shapeshift out of it, or they will be dead anyway. Secondly, keep your Mana Drain up. A Druid can remove it, but that will for a Feral mostly require a shapeshift and manacost anyway.

Ferals can't shapeshift forever. Anywhere between Four and Six shapeshifts and almost any Feral with a strictly Feral set on it, will be out of Mana after that. Watch for when he is either stuck in Caster Form, or going into Travelform. That's your cue to unleash hell on him, because he can't retaliate.

I personally think it's fun to PvP on my Druid, since so few Hunters bother CCing me. I honestly don't understand it, since it is the one way to beat us.
#10 Oct 14 2007 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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I had an interesting go with a feral druid the other night and learned some dos (and don'ts). The problem was, it was druid/druid versus hunter/spriest... and my spriest friend died quickly at the hands of both druids.

While he was being pummeled, I was pummeling their resto healer. Problem being, the spriest died and Mr. Resto shifted to bear so he could take more of a beating.

I got him down, but by the time I did I was oom and nearly oom.

Every time the druid would feral charge, I'd wing-clip and run the other way. A lot of people use freezing traps, but I've also found that snake-traps are INCREDIBLY useful against druids. The cool thing is, even when they trinket out the snakes continue to attack, which interrupts them. Mind-numbing poison + all the dots also help to keep them at bay because if they cleanse one, they may not get the one they want.

This one was not the smartest of them all; he went kitty to try to reach me. Failing that, he went back to bear and tried to charge me. It was a good 5 minute fight which, sadly, ended with a dead hunter and a druid at around 10%. The problem was, I didn't switch to AoTV. If I had done that, I probably could have thrown in an occasional other shot. As it was, I was trappign him and/or dazing him, stopping, firing an auto shot (!!) and kiting again. It was a big, bloody mess.

As said, keep your viper sting on them---it'll hurt. I noticed that Mr. Druid was also OOM, because he stopped shifting after a while. Keep out of range of feral charge if you can (hawkeye helps this). Just keep patient, it won't be a quick kill like you're fighting a squishy.
#11 Oct 14 2007 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
ZulFrieze wrote:
The cool thing is, even when they trinket out the snakes continue to attack, which interrupts them. Mind-numbing poison + all the dots also help to keep them at bay because if they cleanse one, they may not get the one they want.


I just wanted to emphasize that part. I noticed last night the both Druids and Rogues have a very hard time with Snake Traps. I'm very, very new to arena but it was quite fun last night to have a Rogue attack me from behind only to get narfed by a dozen snakes, disappear, and reappear a few yards away...his toon green from the poison as he tried to crawl off towards our healer. Emphasis on the word "tried" >:D

I've found Freeze Traps to be not all that useful in most Arena battles, as they're usually the first thing someone expects from a Hunter and they have their trinket ready. Snake Traps, on the other hand, often achieve better results with less recourse available to the victim.

Edited, Oct 14th 2007 8:21am by AureliusSir
#12 Oct 18 2007 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
Having both a hunter and druid i think i can answer your question. I rently fought a Sv hunter friend of mine. We both are equally geared and skilled. He was actually the first hunter to ever beat me lol he was a smart 1. He kept viper sting on me and layed frost traps to slow my speed. and since i can teinket or shapeshift ot of those he just kept kiting me around and when i did a feral charge we would deterrance/readiness/snake trap. Usually he se his frost trap first but he used readiness once for the snake trap to ***** me over. Basically keep a feral druid in a frost trap and kite away. Remember that your pet in gonna be doin the most damage and your only gonna be able to do a arcane or auto shot. and he was at 75% hp while i was at 0 mp and 1 hp lol first hunter to ever beat me and beat me badly he did. Excuse spelling mistakes if I made any, at work and boss is being an *** -_-
#13 Oct 18 2007 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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there are a lot to say but first of all your not the right specc (not that the other speccs will do much better but still )to beat a feral druid.


Ethereal I wanna hurt you soooo bad right now :)


I am MM and I have trouble with druids yes, but I win at east 80% of the time, and whenever I loose it's due to this person really knowing what they are doing and waaaay outgearing me.

Feral Charge has a shorter range than your shots do, you can kite them same as a warrior, Freeze Trap em down, run way out, run back into range, Aimed/Multi/Arcane Shot their asses, and then keep kiting them around in circles, it can be done, it's a helluva lot more difficult than kiting a Warrior, but it just takes practice :)
#14 Oct 18 2007 at 7:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Agreed Caldone. It's a tough fight, but by no means impossible. Everyone panicks when they see a druid... but all you have to do is just keep a cool head and be proactive, not reactive.

A druid can do many things well... but not as well as the classes who specialize in them. So, for example, a kitty isn't as powerful as a rogue; a bear isn't as powerful as a warrior, and if they try to pewpew? You've got 'em beat. You have to be an experienced fighter and know how to combat each of these classes (in close time frames, often interchanging)... and if you can do that, you're golden. :)
#15 Oct 19 2007 at 2:08 AM Rating: Good
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Does Viper Sting work through forms now? Nref!1!

Most Druids will use Barkskin when they shift out to heal in PvP. Barkskin lowers the damage taken as well as makes the Druid immune to pushbacks (not to be confused with knockbacks). Basically makes Snake Trap useless unless the snakes do more than just hit the target.

I do love Snake Trap, though. I can't help but laugh whenever a Hunter runs into a group of casters and drops one of those suckers on the ground. Snakes everywhere!

This is how I react towards a Hunter in a 1v1 scenario:

Cat form and open up with Pounce (bleed and stun).
Mangle and Shred, then Maim (disorient).
(Mangle and) Shred, then Ferocious Bite.
Shift to Bear form and use Demoralizing Roar.
Mangle and Maul until the Hunter is at around 20% health.
Bash and shift to Cat form.
(Mangle and) Shred, Shred and finish off with Ferocious Bite.

Usually kills the Hunter good. If it's a tough fight I'll stay in Bear form. It's a slow fighter, but the Mangles and Mauls still crit for around 1,000 damage.
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#16 Oct 19 2007 at 2:20 AM Rating: Good
*reads Mazra's sig and falls over laughin'*
Come back permanently to the Hunter forums, and you can have my position. Intarwebz Infamy isn't always as fun as it's cracked up to be.
#17 Oct 19 2007 at 3:04 AM Rating: Excellent


Caldone the Shady wrote:
Quote:
there are a lot to say but first of all your not the right specc (not that the other speccs will do much better but still )to beat a feral druid.


Ethereal I wanna hurt you soooo bad right now :)


I am MM and I have trouble with druids yes, but I win at east 80% of the time, and whenever I loose it's due to this person really knowing what they are doing and waaaay outgearing me.

Feral Charge has a shorter range than your shots do, you can kite them same as a warrior, Freeze Trap em down, run way out, run back into range, Aimed/Multi/Arcane Shot their asses, and then keep kiting them around in circles, it can be done, it's a helluva lot more difficult than kiting a Warrior, but it just takes practice :)


Pl0x don't hurt me :D.
Still remember they will always start the fight from prowl with an pounce, so time to trinket.They are kiteable in bear but damn they are noobs if they stay in bear and let you kite them.IF they are noobs they will walk in your frost trap, but they can get get out of it easily.
If they put some dots on you, how the hell would you pull that aimed ?

For Mazra: Viper Sting didn't worked in form last time i remembered.
#18 Oct 19 2007 at 3:36 AM Rating: Excellent
EtherealSin wrote:
For Mazra: Viper Sting didn't worked in form last time i remembered.

I am too lazy to dig up the quote I used last time, but I dug up some confirmation from WoWwiki that Viper Sting does indeed work in all forms now. That information was correct up until the last patch, and I didn't see anything in the patchnotes that indicated changing it.

I haven't done any real testing, but from World PvP with my Druid I have the distinct impression that it does indeed work. I can't truly confirm it since there might be other circumstances in World PvP that made me just think it worked, but combined with the information on WoWwiki I am 99.9% certain it does.
#19 Oct 19 2007 at 3:43 AM Rating: Good
Oh ****, and they didn't had the guts to let us know, they are slowly nerfing droods in pvp...:D
#20 Oct 19 2007 at 5:53 AM Rating: Good
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LOL @ Mazra also... glad to see someone else has played portal :)
#21 Oct 19 2007 at 6:02 AM Rating: Good
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ZulFrieze wrote:
LOL @ Mazra also... glad to see someone else has played portal :)


"Please note that we have added a consequence for failure. Any contact with the chamber floor will result in an unsatisfactory mark on your official testing record. Followed by death. Good luck!"

Edited, Oct 19th 2007 4:03pm by Mazra
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#22 Oct 19 2007 at 8:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Still remember they will always start the fight from prowl with an pounce, so time to trinket.They are kiteable in bear but damn they are noobs if they stay in bear and let you kite them.IF they are noobs they will walk in your frost trap, but they can get get out of it easily.
If they put some dots on you, how the hell would you pull that aimed ?


Druid dots? You mean the Bleed effects? Might I remind you I am a Dwarf ;) Stoneform FTW! That and the ever so handy Luffa!

So, If they are noobs for staying in bear.. What, they come out of bear, try to do something, see oh **** Im OOM, and do what? Silencing shot is always used as soon as they morph into nelf form :)

There is alot of techiniques and tricks for druids, it just takes practice :)
#23 Oct 19 2007 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
Luffa is nerfed past 60. Also, Druids have the Moonfire DoT, and if specced for it another DoT with a debuff.

But how a DoT should affect an Aimed Shot, I don't know. DoT's don't give cast interrupts.
#24 Oct 19 2007 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
like others have said, play on their low mana pool. hit em with a viper early on and keep it up. do anything you can to slow them and force them to shape shift, traps, wing clip, concussive shot, whaterver. if you are lucky enough to get stuck in caster form they'll either blow a pot or die or both.

viper is your friend with druids. soon the ability to take off a dot with an arcane shot will be great too.
#25 Oct 19 2007 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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In my experience, Druids are extremely "weak" (yes I said weak) against me when I am Survival spec.

My basic recipe is:

Wing Clip for distance + Drop Snake Trap
Rapid Shots+Wyvern Sting, and prays he/she trinkets out. (send in pet to wake him/her up)
Trinket +Aimed Shot+Concussive Shot

Note: They "will" run toward you. Hitting the snake trap, and have a total of at least 7 debuffs (Wyvern Sting poison, Scorpid poison x5, and poison from snakes) on em "always". This is when Druids argue that they can cure poison (which is true), but thier spell will clear only 1 debuff at a time, and leave them vulnerable to your debuffs. So most will try to rush you while in bear form for the extra defense, which is when you wing clip "again" and squeeze in Scare Beast (if you can).

Pop Readiness, and repeat if needed, but most likely...they'll be dead by then.

Note: After Wyvern Sting's poison wears off, Serpent Sting is an awesome replacement to keep them ticking down toward death. Main thing is to get them to drain thier mana (curing the poisons), and leaving them exposed for some of those big shots. People lose to Druids because they panic, but most Druids are not as good as they seem. Most get too comfortable with the stealth crutch in cat-form, but will run away when you hook em up with some poison.

Also: The way I kill Druids will not work for everyone, cause it requires systematic steps, and knowing when to alter those steps for acceptional Druids, so please don't flip out due to my specific tactics.

#26 Oct 19 2007 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent
Jaquio wrote:
Main thing is to get them to drain thier mana (curing the poisons), and leaving them exposed for some of those big shots. People lose to Druids because they panic, but most Druids are not as good as they seem. Most get too comfortable with the stealth crutch in cat-form, but will run away when you hook em up with some poison.
Actually, for most Druids, cleansing away the Serpent Sting is more mana efficient than it is to cast Serpent Sting for us. Viper Sting is the best way now that it works through all forms. Serpent Sting simply costs us too much mana compared to both the damage it does, and the mana it costs them to remove it.
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