That's right, mages can destroy locks.
Fire mages can destroy locks. Why? because PvP tricks, survivability etc doesn't help against them. You just need to utterly anihilate them before they anihilate you. You'll need one macro:
/stopcasting;
/cast Counterspell;
/say Where's your fear now, bish?
Use this when they try to fear you, just continue to burn fireballs, fireblasts, DB, anything. Your spell spam will overpower their DoTs. Frost nova their pet; 10 sec is all you need. Unless they have skill coil on cooldown, you'll win every time.
The mistakes mages make against locks is trying to use fancy tricks and strategy. Don't. Just blast them to kingdom come.
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Actually locks destroy mages.
-Counterspell, yes it is useful but it gives me 8 seconds of the lock not being able to shadow me (and for some mages 4 sec of silencing). During this time, its pet is hacking at me, and if not silenced, the lock is burning me. Certain warlock pets *cough* are unnaturally skilled at interrupting spells, so during the 8 seconds I will on average get off 2 fireballs and a fireblast. During this time the dots will still be ticking on me and the pet will still be hacking at me. All this is assuming the warlock doesnt pre emptively silence me before casting fear.
Frost nova their pet; 10 sec is all you need.
Frost nova only gives me 8s, also the pet normally has very very high all resists so i can by no means rely on frosting it in place. Even if this strategy works, it necessitates moving around, further reducing the damage i can do while the warlocks shadow is locked out. Also, not to mention avoidance on the felguard, a whopping 50% chance to avoid my nova.
Unless they have skill coil on cooldown, you'll win every time.
You mean i win IF they have coil on CD. So, basically what youre saying is that mages can destroy locks if the lock has at least one of its vital skills on cd . Not very helpful.
The mistakes mages make against locks is trying to use fancy tricks and strategy. Don't.
Im sorry, only warlocks can win without skill. We mages need all our abilities to tand a chance.
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 1:03pm by Damoloces
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 1:06pm by Damoloces
-Counterspell, yes it is useful but it gives me 8 seconds of the lock not being able to shadow me (and for some mages 4 sec of silencing). During this time, its pet is hacking at me, and if not silenced, the lock is burning me. Certain warlock pets *cough* are unnaturally skilled at interrupting spells, so during the 8 seconds I will on average get off 2 fireballs and a fireblast. During this time the dots will still be ticking on me and the pet will still be hacking at me. All this is assuming the warlock doesnt pre emptively silence me before casting fear.
Addramelech wrote:
Frost nova their pet; 10 sec is all you need.
Frost nova only gives me 8s, also the pet normally has very very high all resists so i can by no means rely on frosting it in place. Even if this strategy works, it necessitates moving around, further reducing the damage i can do while the warlocks shadow is locked out. Also, not to mention avoidance on the felguard, a whopping 50% chance to avoid my nova.
Addramelech wrote:
Unless they have skill coil on cooldown, you'll win every time.
You mean i win IF they have coil on CD. So, basically what youre saying is that mages can destroy locks if the lock has at least one of its vital skills on cd . Not very helpful.
Addramelech wrote:
The mistakes mages make against locks is trying to use fancy tricks and strategy. Don't.
Im sorry, only warlocks can win without skill. We mages need all our abilities to tand a chance.
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 1:03pm by Damoloces
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 1:06pm by Damoloces
#3REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 14 2007 at 10:17 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Bunch of crock. I destroy locks without the infernal pretty much every time.
#4REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 14 2007 at 11:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I begin to get the impression that you are being economical with the truth.
#5REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 14 2007 at 11:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) My PoM pyro's fully buffed crit for over 4k. Also, there was no such thing as poor itemization; Most were outland blues, and a few azeroth epics (I have a tier 3 piece that's about as good as the best outland stuff i can get for that slot)
assuming your critrate is below 50% you still won by luck
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 4:05pm by Damoloces
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 4:05pm by Damoloces
Damoloces is right, 70 pvp is MUCH different than pre 70. You'll have much better gear, much better skills, more resilience, better specs, etc. Believe it or not, warlocks DO take skills to win. /gasp! The common misconception about locks is FEAR dot dot FEAR shadowbolt DEATHCOIL shadowbolt WIN! Trust me, that's not how it happens. I'll admit 1v1 warlocks are OP, but if you make it so they're not OP in 1v1 they'll suck in anything more.
Note that ONLY demonology warlocks will have the high resist chance. If you're dueling someone, look for soul link. If they have that, they have the high resist chance. If they don't, pew pew. The trick for mages to beat me (yes, mages can beat me) is polymorph. In duels I usually have my imp out because I don't want to waste shards, but we'll assume I have my felhunter. Polymorph me right off the bat, if I have devour magic on auto (which I usually do against mages), I'll have to trinket out of it. This next part depends on if I know your spec, but if I don't, it's alot easier. Let's say you're fire. Start out casting polymorph. I'll try to silence it usually, but if I don't start casting frostbolt. I'll definately silence that if I'm still polyed. Then wait the three seconds, repoly if you need to, then cast fireball. From then on try to keep me stunned/disoriented as much as possible. Generally after fireball cast fireblast while running up to me, then blast wave (at 70 you'll have done around 2k-3k damage assuming no crits), dragon's breath, and whatever you can pull off before I deathcoil (or instant howl of terror since I'm affliction). After that I'll try to put dots on, so make sure you have that counterspell macro. Silence ONLY SHADOW! It doesn't matter what spec I am, silence shadow, so I can't fear you. Try to silence shadow early on so you can use it later. Personally I'll try to dot you and then drain life, this would be when you silence. Wait for the felhunter silence (every 24 seconds it becomes available), if you think enough time has gone by try to use only instant casts or off-spec spells. You'll do less damage but I'll be waiting for you to cast a fireball. If you think you're skilled enough start casting fireball and then move so I don't silence you.
Fighting a warlock depends on gear and starting strategy. If you can keep me disabled for the first half of the fight, you've got a good lead. Make sure you can trinket out of the fear (my casting fear, don't bother trinketing out of howl of terror or death coil). If you're undead do whatever the hell you want, you've got it good against warlocks. Obviouily you'll have different strategies against different pets, so plan ahead. Just going in there crazy won't work; you need to have a basic strategy (not the entire fight though, you need to be flexible).
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 4:34pm by Miscelaneous
Note that ONLY demonology warlocks will have the high resist chance. If you're dueling someone, look for soul link. If they have that, they have the high resist chance. If they don't, pew pew. The trick for mages to beat me (yes, mages can beat me) is polymorph. In duels I usually have my imp out because I don't want to waste shards, but we'll assume I have my felhunter. Polymorph me right off the bat, if I have devour magic on auto (which I usually do against mages), I'll have to trinket out of it. This next part depends on if I know your spec, but if I don't, it's alot easier. Let's say you're fire. Start out casting polymorph. I'll try to silence it usually, but if I don't start casting frostbolt. I'll definately silence that if I'm still polyed. Then wait the three seconds, repoly if you need to, then cast fireball. From then on try to keep me stunned/disoriented as much as possible. Generally after fireball cast fireblast while running up to me, then blast wave (at 70 you'll have done around 2k-3k damage assuming no crits), dragon's breath, and whatever you can pull off before I deathcoil (or instant howl of terror since I'm affliction). After that I'll try to put dots on, so make sure you have that counterspell macro. Silence ONLY SHADOW! It doesn't matter what spec I am, silence shadow, so I can't fear you. Try to silence shadow early on so you can use it later. Personally I'll try to dot you and then drain life, this would be when you silence. Wait for the felhunter silence (every 24 seconds it becomes available), if you think enough time has gone by try to use only instant casts or off-spec spells. You'll do less damage but I'll be waiting for you to cast a fireball. If you think you're skilled enough start casting fireball and then move so I don't silence you.
Fighting a warlock depends on gear and starting strategy. If you can keep me disabled for the first half of the fight, you've got a good lead. Make sure you can trinket out of the fear (my casting fear, don't bother trinketing out of howl of terror or death coil). If you're undead do whatever the hell you want, you've got it good against warlocks. Obviouily you'll have different strategies against different pets, so plan ahead. Just going in there crazy won't work; you need to have a basic strategy (not the entire fight though, you need to be flexible).
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 4:34pm by Miscelaneous
#8REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 14 2007 at 12:54 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What are you on about? mages cant chain poly, when you poly a target it gets healed massively as long as its sheeped. The main strategy is to poly/pyro/pom pyro but against a demon lock this doesnt work because the pet will silence your pyro when you try to cast it; your only option os pom pyro so you might as well have not sheeped the lock at all.
Warlocks without pets are unbeatable, let alone with pets. Lets use a felgaurd for example: They charge, its a 3 second stun, a warlocks fear cast time is 1.5 seconds. There you are, your feared, cant do anything about, and now you have all the warlocks dots on you. One the warlock can run and let his pet finish you off, or two the warlock can deathcoil you, and fear you again, and drain life. Oh did I mention most warlocks have a pretty damn good chance of shadow trance proccing so theres another 2.5 instant damage. Oh and if by chance you mana to get a warlock down to low health, in any serious pvp they will use a health stone for 2.4k instant heal.
So dont say you can beat warlocks easily.
Now I am not coming in here and saying nerf locks. I am coming in here and saying to say mages can beat warlocks, BECAUSE THEY CANT in almost every situation.
So dont say you can beat warlocks easily.
Now I am not coming in here and saying nerf locks. I am coming in here and saying to say mages can beat warlocks, BECAUSE THEY CANT in almost every situation.
This is if you're dueling. When you start the duel, both of you are at full health, so who cares about the health regen of poly? I'm not benefitting from it. I also never said to chain poly. Poly in the beginning, and if I silence you poly again so you have time to cast a fireball.
By casting frostbolt you're taking the chance that I silence it instead of fire, since you're spec is fire. Only one pet can silence; the felhunter. If they don't have the felhunter out, go crazy will fire spells! If you cast polymorph at the beginning of the fight I can only get one spell off; if this is a curse, remove it and you have no dots. If it's another spell, just use your shield. You should also have the 70% chance of not being interrupted, so that helps majorly (especially against imps since they only attack every two seconds). I never avoiding mentioning fear as OP in 1v1, but it DOES break on damage. Especially for affliction warlocks.
By casting frostbolt you're taking the chance that I silence it instead of fire, since you're spec is fire. Only one pet can silence; the felhunter. If they don't have the felhunter out, go crazy will fire spells! If you cast polymorph at the beginning of the fight I can only get one spell off; if this is a curse, remove it and you have no dots. If it's another spell, just use your shield. You should also have the 70% chance of not being interrupted, so that helps majorly (especially against imps since they only attack every two seconds). I never avoiding mentioning fear as OP in 1v1, but it DOES break on damage. Especially for affliction warlocks.
#11REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 14 2007 at 1:29 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It CAN break on damage but as i said above, reliably does not and in fact does so even less for affliction warlocks since theyre not going to nuke, and it very very rarely breaks as a result of dot or pet damage.
This is the ignorance I was waiting for (in response to zxcy). One, not everyone has a felguard. Two, locks ARE NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT! Most people think 'OMG FEAR they can damage me for 10 seconds and I can't do anything so I might as well lose!' If you break down what a warlock can do, they're just as vulnerable. Let's say they do have a felguard, and they do charge/fear. One, you have an even better chance of breaking fear early with a feguard and a warlock beating on you. Two, they only have three dots, one of which you can remove. About shadow trance, that's IF you go into the affliction tree, and it has a FOUR% chance of proccing off of every corruption and drain life. Demonology locks aren't using drain life, and if they do it's extremely rare. So it's basically a 4 percent chance every three seconds, assuming corruption is kept up.
Of course warlocks aren't easy to beat, they're OP in 1v1. But don't say you can't beat them, because then we would never die.
About not being able to do anything about fear... Ever heard of a trinket?
We don't always have a healthstone. Most of us (or me at least) are too lazy to create one. Besides, when dueling, why would we waste a shard?
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 5:44pm by Miscelaneous
Of course warlocks aren't easy to beat, they're OP in 1v1. But don't say you can't beat them, because then we would never die.
About not being able to do anything about fear... Ever heard of a trinket?
We don't always have a healthstone. Most of us (or me at least) are too lazy to create one. Besides, when dueling, why would we waste a shard?
Edited, Oct 14th 2007 5:44pm by Miscelaneous
It has just as much chance of breaking from a dot or pet damage than it does direct damage.
#14REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 14 2007 at 1:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The chance of breaking depends on the ammount of damage done. Since dots do lots of small ammouns of damage, each tick has a very low chance to break the fear, the same with a pet hitting lots of low ammounts of damage, each hit has only a very small chance to break fear.
Considering the small damage hits much more often than the big damage, the percent adds up. during the 2.5 second cast of shadowbolt, if I have all 5 dots up, I'll get at least 5 ticks, plus the pet damage. The point is it's not JUST direct damage that can break it.
#16REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 14 2007 at 1:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No, it isnt and i never said it was what i said was the chance of it breaking from dots is so low that it can be relied upon not to break, hence i said that alone out of all CCs, it reliably did not break from damage. And i was right.
One a fear doesn't have to last 10 seconds to work, it only needs to last 1-2 seconds to ***** you over. I used felguard as example because of this quote "Lock has fel intercept me. Tries to fear, stun wears before fear goes off" right there I know you faced a crappy warlock, a warlock will get a fear off before the stun wears off.
Want me to use another pet how about there felpuppy, they will eat your pom buff, so there goes you buff, they will silence you. And then you will die.
And if the warlock doesn't have a healthstone in serious pvp, then they are a crappy warlock.
So you got lucky and faced a crappy warlock.
A mage will never beat a good warlock.
Want me to use another pet how about there felpuppy, they will eat your pom buff, so there goes you buff, they will silence you. And then you will die.
And if the warlock doesn't have a healthstone in serious pvp, then they are a crappy warlock.
So you got lucky and faced a crappy warlock.
A mage will never beat a good warlock.
Most classes have at least one way out of fear, not including trinket. With fire mages that's not the case, so use a trinket if you can. That will get rid of the 10 second fear, so the second fear lasts about 6 seconds if it doesn't break. Most likely that's not the case. If I even try to fear again, it won't last longer than 3 seconds, which means I have about one second of you not casting, i.e. not worth it since it's not interrupting a heal.
Quote:
it only needs to last 1-2 seconds to ***** you over.
That amount of time is enough to get one instant cast off. Of course that screws you over.
Quote:
Want me to use another pet how about there felpuppy, they will eat your pom buff, so there goes you buff, they will silence you. And then you will die.
Out of the 4 buffs you have, there's a 25% chance of it taking the POM buff. And only noob warlocks will have silence on auto-cast. It's much more efficient to silence your main spec tree than it is to have a 3 second silence every twenty-four seconds. And how does a 3 second silence and no POM buff make you die?
Quote:
And if the warlock doesn't have a healthstone in serious pvp, then they are a crappy warlock
By serious pvp do you mean battlegrounds or arena? Because arena will change everything.
And if you think a mage can never beat a warlock, l2play.
#20REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 14 2007 at 2:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The warlock has its sources of damage established at the beginning of the fight (namely its DOTs and pet attack) therefore, throughout the fight, all the warlock has to do is survive. It is given many excellent tools to do this; fear (the best CC in the game, and the only CC to reliably not break on damage), Deathcoil (a completely unremovable CC, also causing damage), high stamina, a healthstone (essentialy a stronger hp pot that does not put healthpot on cooldown), a fast attacking pet to delay its enemies casts. A pvp lock is probably demonology with a few points in affliction so it will also have; roughly the equivalent of a mage's talented up counterspell, a stun available from its pet, high resistances (normally by far the highest of any class in pvp).
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