Weapon ExpertiseFollow

That just made my day. I haven't laughed that hard all week.

My hats off to you, Sir Knife.

But thats exactly my point, we are PLAGUED by itemization already, this is just making **** even harder.

RPZip, I'm still not seeing that. Consider the following scenarios:

Assumptions: You're not at the hit cap, but you don't miss your specials, and all other things are equal:

1a. You pick up +10 weapon skill to bring your weapon skill to 360. Against a level 73 mob, this gives you +3.5% to hit. This hit applies only to your white damage, which constitutes less than 60% of your damage. That's an increase in DPS of 2.1%


1b. You pick up +10 weapon expertise. Against a level 73 mob, this reduces that mob's chance to dodge/parry your attacks by 2.5%. That's an increase in DPS of 2.5% because mobs can dodge/parry specials.

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2a. You were at 355 weapon skill due to racials and pick up +10 weapon skill to bring your total to 365. Against a level 73 mob, this only gives you +1% to hit (This has been well tested that weapon skill doesn't scale linearly, in fact after the first 5 points becomes a mediocre stat). Again since this applies only to your white damage (assuming the same 60%), nets you a DPS increase of 0.6%.

2b. You pick up +10 weapon expertise (while still remaining under the expertise cap). Against a level 73 mob, this reduces that mob's chance to dodge/parry by another 2.5%, netting you a DPS increase of 2.5%


To me it seems that expertise is going to scale much better than skill currently does. You're not going to have to resocket to pick up more +hit to make up for the 3.5% that you're losing, because the reduction to mob dodge/parry (more than) makes up for it. It's true that if you have Surprise Attacks, you're increase on the 'b' scenarios will be less than 2.5% because your finishers can't be dodged, but as a whole I think it's still better than weapon skill.

Am I missing something?

Edit: Grammar

Edited, Oct 15th 2007 2:32pm by CamelToad

it doesn't change SA.

he is saying those with SA will get a tad bit less out of Weapon Expertise because they already can't have finishers dodged (thus only gaining -parry chance on a mob since -dodge is no use with SA).

One thing you also have to remember: when a mob/player dodges an instant attack, you get energy back. A dodged SS costs like 7 energy. If you eliminate dodges, than those attacks will hit (and not crit). This was the original problem with surprise attacks in Beta when it eliminated dodges (based on the single roll system). The eliminated dodges actually brought down out efficiency. IE: it was better to have an attack dodged and get the energy back than it was to have it hit.

That being said, it does kinda suck that they are doing this to us. I do hope they change WE to a slightly different talent. I won't be stacking anymore hit gear (currently 1 below cap at 307). I would be happy if they simply made precision 3/3 for 6% extra hit. I could live with that... :)

How does the reasoning go?
Do you mean that it is better to have the effective SS crit rate increased by 1% at the cost of 7 energy, than having the SS hit rate increased by 5% at cost of 40?

Theoretical

500 damage SS = 40 energy
1150 damage crit SS = 40 energy

With 25% crit and 5.6% dodge you have 69.4% normal hits

500 * 69.4 + 1150 * 25 = 63450 damage and 3776 total energy + 5.6 * 7 energy from misses = 3815.2 energy for a total of 16.63 damage per energy (DPE).

With 25% crit and 75% normal hits (with no dodges)

500 * 75 + 1150 * 25 = 66250 Damage from 4000 total energy (same 100 SS "presses) = 16.56 DPE

My point was, eliminating dodges from the table of possible outcomes isn't always a good thing (or at least as good as it may seem in theory). That being said, it's good for PvP and farming... this is just talking sustained raiding DPS. Remember, our attacks have no cool downs, so the only thing you lose by having an attack dodged is 7 energy (for SS). You are still going to be limited by the amount of energy you have due to the rate energy regenerates at. This change is awesome for tanks... but it does kinda suck for us. I wish they would just make that talent give us hit/crit to compensate for what we lost. As rogues we don't really benefit from the new system in PvE.

Dont forget the need to keep AP and Crit at a good lvl as well while essentially having to stack more hit, a new stat, getting gear with armor ignore and haste as well. We essentially have 6 things to stack...do we have to pick and choose(therefore making this patch a jumbo nerf) or will Blizz fix itemization and make this a very good thing? I am assuming the first based on the fact that we are rogues and they are blizz.