What The Frack?Follow

well jimp, changing enrage -> SS would make too much sense. It is blizzard after all... ******** idiots]

im sure at 80 they're probably going to add better talents like they did at 70 that will still be more desirable than losing those in favor of DW

Just off the wall ... how about this for a new PvP spec (bear in mind that where it shows SS and WM, those are actually gonna be DW and Imp Intercept)

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xbAbqMbzbZVZf0tchhz

It gives you extra Damage mitigation, Last stand (lol if you think you've got me almost dead), and concussion blow (5 second stun ftw)

Just a thought ... now that we don't need to go into the Fury tree for DW and Imp Intercept, there are a few other options available

:-( ... No, you're not forgiven ;-)

Didn't know that ... kinda spoils the fun of the idea. Oh well, I'll stick with the standard.

Question, what would a 5/5 PvP Flurry build look like. I would assume TM is out the window at the very least. Perhaps with the news structure, there's more scope for that now.

yeah, you'd just have to sacrifice second wind really. thats something i personally cant do, just because with the amount of aoe and possibility for stuns flying around, 10% health back and 20 rage is a godsend. ill place 4th in healing on the 5v5 charts a lot of the time; the main healers on each side will be first/second with a secondary healer third or fourth and me fourth or fifth. out of 10 that isnt too bad.

sadly, ill also top the healing charts in AV sometimes, which is equal parts depressing and funny.

Dear Blizzard,

Please stop raping me.

Love, Fury Tree.

I totally agree. In fact I started a thread over in the Rogue forums about this very topic.



Totally agree, except about the 2h fury. Unless you've just got a ton of rage to dump in an idea situation, I can't imagine being able to use up 10 charges with a slow two hander in under 10 seconds.

From what I understand, Weapon Mastery gives Weapon Expertise (since it formerly gave Weapon Skill), which makes it OK to have over in Fury (better than Imp Intercept for PvE DPS anyway). 2 points out of Precision and into Weapon Mastery should give a net increase in hit (I think).

The Deathwish dealio is a straight nerf to Fury DPS though (as long as you're not threat capped). Maybe the WW change will compensate, or maybe the standard build will become 21/40/0. Something like this, though I'm not sure it's worth giving up Imp Execute and Imp WW (esp. post-WW buff) for Deathwish.

Raw deal for Furies, the change doesn't even affect Arms wars cause they'll have all the exact same talents as before, just coming from different trees, and it'll stay this way til 35-40 point Arms talents worth having (or WotLK 45-50 point talents) are introduced.

Definitely true.

Regarding Weapon Mastery switching trees (along with the change from skill to expertise), this change definitely screws Arms Warriors more than Fury. It hurts a 2h Arms warrior much more when a mob dodges/parries an attack than it does a Fury warrior. In fact, regardless of how good weapon expertise ends up being, it'll still increase a Fury warrior's PvE DPS more than Improved Intercept.

With the exception of the inexplicable DW, SS swap, this could be a pretty good patch for Fury DPS warriors.

It is not that big nerf if any.
Protection tree gets a nice buff with devastate and TM and defiance.
PvP arms warriors might have to respec but they were not hit hard.
PvE 31/30 33/28 builds will stay the same only SS got a nice buff with being avialable in Berserk Stance. Whatever you say SS in that stance is a buff.

As for Fury DW DPS - I saw math on US WoW forums that change to WW will cover DPS loss of DW if you use slow OH. Maybe someone could check it....
Threat generation will be lower - I wish I had it.
And we got charge fixed I hope.
One long expected nerf was mace specc nerf - but noone even coments on it - it was OP...

Edited, Oct 16th 2007 3:20am by Krisss

Edited, Oct 16th 2007 3:22am by Krisss

well... the whirlwind d/w both weapons hitting is amazing. both attacks can crit separately, which means fishing for flurry crits becomes easier. it also makes d/w spec slightly more important. as well as imp whirlwind.

i'm playing on the PTR atm, and find that the expertise from fury is nice as well. 4 expertise = 1% dodge and 1% parry reduction. which is ... well, very very nice. as for it's place in the tree, and the disarm duration reduction... i'm a little dissatisfied.

So we get basically get 5% to hit from fury now. and whirlwind does more damage and fishing for crits is easier AND we get a passive threat reduction. I think overall a buff, even though we don't get DW anymore.

For grinding purposes, and 2h fury slam builds, SS in fury is also kinda nice. We never really got a good (whirlwind is NOT good aoe damage with d/w) aoe. With 10 attacks and 30 seconds even with a slow 2h you usually eat up all those charges. SS got a serious buff.

But overall I gotta say, the whirlwind change is amazing.

::EDIT::

Also look at it this way, we will probably get a free respec out of this update.

Edited, Oct 17th 2007 10:57pm by devioususer

I'd think something like this would be alright.

if you switched weapon mastery and imp intercept, DW and SS on the talent tree. you could probably swap a point out from d/w spec to put into imp execute, if you where so inclined.

I did think switching to a slow offhand would be useful for "warrior stormstrike". Since your dealing only 50-62.5% offhand damage anyhow... switching from a 100 dps OH at 1.5 speed (150 average) to a 100 dps OH at 2.5 speed (250 average)... ok, lemme do this right;


Examples;

With 2800 AP (200 DPS), For OH.

100 DPS 1.5 Speed vs 100 DPS 2.5 Speed. Example with d/w spec 5/5.

The 1.5 speed equates to 187.5 DPS or an average of 281.25 damage.
The 2.5 speed equates to 187.5 DPS or an average of 468.75 damage.

A difference of 187.5 damage per hit.

This is the same argument related to Devastate; Fast or Slow. But this time, it's your offhand.

This means also your OH will not be consuming your flurry charges as often as well, if you switch to a slow OH.

Yes, spikier rage generation. Yes less time between Flurry procs from white damage (which is not a big deal really, skills like WW and BT will have higher related intervals to flurry consumption).

::EDIT::

realized you meant to max out imp ww. I don't recommend that. As pointed by Rrzip earlier, it makes you trip over your cooldown with BT at max 2/2. 1/2 means you should feasibly never trip over each other cooldown... or much less often.

Edited, Oct 18th 2007 2:48am by devioususer

You know WW is normalized, right? Unless you're using a dagger the AP contribution is set as if it were a 2.4 speed weapon... which means the absolute damage difference between any two weapons is determined solely by the damage range, with AP playing no part (although it's helpful to know that to determine the % change, of course).

Going from a 2.6 speed offhand to a 1.5 speed offhand at 100 DPS means you go from an average damage range of 260 to 150, or 110 more damage. With 5/5 DW spec include this drops to 68.75 damage difference, and if you're using WW every 9 seconds you'll end up with a 7.63 DPS difference between a slow offhand and a fast offhand... before armor. With standard boss armor values the difference will shrink even smaller, so in actual performance you're looking at something around 4-5 DPS gained from switching a slow offhand in place of a fast offhand... with 100 DPS weapons.

Of course, the situation changes somewhat over shorter fights (i.e. soloing or PvP), but in terms of sustained damage output using either a slow or a fast offhand is going to result in negligible changes.