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#1 Oct 11 2007 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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* Charge will work more often when targets are up against unpathable areas like walls and poles.
* Defiance (Protection) now also grants 2/4/6 weapon expertise.
* Devastate (Protection) now combines the effects of Sunder Armor into its effect. It is also now affected by all talents and items that affect Sunder Armor.
* Disarm is now subject to diminishing returns in PvP.
* Improved Berserker Stance (Fury) now also reduces all threat caused while in Berserker Stance by 2/4/6/8/10%
* Improved Intercept and Weapon Mastery have swapped locations in the talent trees.
* Intervene will no longer place you in combat.
* Hamstring now has a 10 second duration when used on PvP targets.
* Mace Specialization (Arms) now has a reduced chance to occur but generates 7 rage instead of 6.
* Pummel: Interrupting a channeled spell with this ability will now always properly prevent casting spells from the same spell school for 4 sec.
* Shield Bash: Interrupting a channeled spell with this ability will now always properly prevent casting spells from the same spell school for 6 sec.
* Shield Slam (Protection) now always tries to dispel one Magic effect on the target.
* Sweeping Strikes and Deathwish have swapped locations in the talent trees.
* Sweeping Strikes (Fury) now lasts 10 seconds and affects your next 10 swings.
* Tactical Mastery: This talent also now grants greatly increased threat from Mortal Strike and Bloodthirst when in Defensive Stance.
* Weapon Mastery (Arms) now reduces duration of Disarm effects against you by 25/50% rather than giving you a 50% chance to avoid or full immunity to Disarm effects.
* Whirlwind: This ability now strikes with both weapons when a Warrior is dual-wielding.


The Good:
* Defiance (Protection) now also grants 2/4/6 weapon expertise.
* Devastate (Protection) now combines the effects of Sunder Armor into its effect. It is also now affected by all talents and items that affect Sunder Armor.
* Tactical Mastery: This talent also now grants greatly increased threat from Mortal Strike and Bloodthirst when in Defensive Stance.
* Improved Intercept and Weapon Mastery have swapped locations in the talent trees.
* Whirlwind: This ability now strikes with both weapons when a Warrior is dual-wielding.


The Bad:
* Weapon Mastery (Arms) now reduces duration of Disarm effects against you by 25/50% rather than giving you a 50% chance to avoid or full immunity to Disarm effects.
* Disarm is now subject to diminishing returns in PvP.
* Mace Specialization (Arms) now has a reduced chance to occur but generates 7 rage instead of 6.

The WTF:

* Hamstring now has a 10 second duration when used on PvP targets.
* Sweeping Strikes and Deathwish have swapped locations in the talent trees.

WHAT THE FUCK?

It's nice to see Blizzard managing to **** up Fury and good. What in the hell were they thinking?
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#2 Oct 11 2007 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess the only good thing about sweeping strikes being in fury tree now is that we have a bit more dps output when fighting groups. Sucks about deathwish, but to be honest, the only time I really use it is when I'm either feared, or about to finish off a boss (deathwish + spam execute). Meh.
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#3 Oct 11 2007 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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so wait... are you telling me that i can no longer spec deathwish if i want to go 17/44 for bloodthirst, imp zerker stance and rampage?

and thank you blizz for nerfing hamstring, warriors have way too much cc as it is, we could stand to lose 5 seconds on our best slowing talent QQ (piercing howl kinda sucks)
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#4 Oct 11 2007 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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Sweeping Strikes and Death Wish swap. Wtf indeed. Hurts Fury bad, and doesn't change much for Arms really.

If there was any Talent tree changes I would have expected Dual-Wield Spec and Enrage to swap in an attempt to hurt MS/Flurry warriors.

The Disarm having diminishing returns in PvP won't effect us considering how long the cooldown on Disarm is. It will effect Rogues though.

Edited, Oct 11th 2007 6:26pm by Ikaridono
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#5 Oct 11 2007 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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and thank you blizz for nerfing hamstring, warriors have way too much cc as it is, we could stand to lose 5 seconds on our best slowing talent QQ


Yeah it sucks, but I think I remember reading that everyone's slowing talent has been reduced to 10 secs...
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#6 Oct 11 2007 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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I found this bout Sweeping Strikes.

Bornakk, a Blue wrote:
Update: With Sweeping Strikes moving position, it will also be usable in Berserker Stance as well as Battle Stance.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2288092512&sid=1

Edited, Oct 11th 2007 8:18pm by Ikaridono
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#7 Oct 11 2007 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Same thing happened to Hunter's earlier with a 10 sec pvp Freeze Trap.
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#8 Oct 11 2007 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Whirlwind....hitting with both weapons.....GLEEEEE!
It will finally be as useful to DW as it was to 2h
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#9 Oct 11 2007 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow, I can't believe the change to Sweeping Strikes and Deathwish. I'd really like to understand that rationale. Both have been core abilities to their respective trees for a long time.

It doesn't really affect MS/Fury for arenas, so I don't really see what the point is. IMO it's a nerf to both trees.
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#10 Oct 11 2007 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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warrior storm strike...

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Defiance (Protection) now also grants 2/4/6 weapon expertise.


I'm.. kinda confused by that one... OOOOkay...
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#11 Oct 11 2007 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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1 point of Weapon Expertise = -.25% chance to dodge/parry.

Pretty much any weapon or talent that gave weapon skill is goign to weapon expertise. It's a nerf for DPS, but a huge boost for tanking.
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#12 Oct 11 2007 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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Ikaridono wrote:
I found this bout Sweeping Strikes.

Bornakk, a Blue wrote:
With Sweeping Strikes moving position, it will only be usable in Berserker Stance too.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2288092512&sid=1


That was corrected, as seen in the link, and is both Battle and Berserker stance (which is a buff, since it was previously battle-only)

Also, check: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html because it has some others not listed here, like:

Quote:
Improved Intercept and Weapon Mastery have swapped locations in the talent trees.


(which I would call another WTF switch)

Now they take the Disarm-immunity, er, disarm-time-reducing talent and move it into fury, where a weapon isn't even required for your 31-point talent?
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#13 Oct 11 2007 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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Ah. He edited himself after I posted. I'll edit my post to match as not to spread misinformation.
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#14 Oct 11 2007 at 5:29 PM Rating: Decent
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so since this is test realm only so far when will it go to live servers? i like my ss in arms works nice with my ms seeing i'm only 46 cant have both and since at work on slow comps to have time to see if i can even have both when i finaly get to 70.
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#15 Oct 11 2007 at 6:13 PM Rating: Default
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Wow. Blizz really hates warriors, nerfing us again, and then throwing in 1 little buff for it. well a few, if your a tank. I guess they are just trying to tell us to stop pvping and start tanking more. This is very homosexual.
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#16 Oct 11 2007 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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WTF???

I am ****ing RAGING right now. Thanks a lot, Blizzard, you complete FRIGGERS.
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#17 Oct 11 2007 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
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GGGGGAAAAAAAAAAAHHH...

I'm so angry, I need to post again. I don't feel that first post expressed it properly. In WoW terms: my real-life rage bar reads 100/100.

#&%$@^...
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#18 Oct 11 2007 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Why not give us a +10 maximum rage ability? Lawl. Gear > Spec as always. As long as BT, MS, Flurry and SS are what they are, warriors will be what they are.
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#19 Oct 11 2007 at 7:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Its throwing me off... but I suppose Sweeping Strikes has been a talent I've envied Arms builds for having, so its nice to have it now. Should mean that whirlwind (both weapons? Sweet.) and cleave are gonna be so much more effective at destroying mutiple targets.

I'll miss deathwish for execute spam, but to be frank, I've always seen it as most valuable during pvp as a free anti-fear button no matter what stance. I think it belongs in the arms tree.


THIS bugs me though:

Quote:
Improved Intercept and Weapon Mastery have swapped locations in the talent trees.


Anti-disarm effects in the fury tree? gg. Its a stupid swap, but if you think about it, most 17/44 builds skip imp intercept anyways, so in the end it wont be that bad for PvE. And for PvP? Well, its in the same spot as imp intercept was before, so it will still be easily accessible for PvP builds.
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#20 Oct 11 2007 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Do they just want to ***** us up? I think Blizzard just wants to ***** with PVE DPS don't they? PvP isn't an issue. I really would like an explanation, but I seriously doubt I'll get one. I really don't know what to say except to express what everyone else has been saying. WHAT THE ****! ><
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#21 Oct 11 2007 at 11:57 PM Rating: Good
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Actually, I might be mad, but I think it's all actually ok.

I primarily play solo, so while I understand it's a problem when raid DPS (Deathwish / Execute spam), while soloing ... I must agree with Janeus ... I don't think I ever really used it (Deathwish) that much. The most use I ever got out of it was in PvP to break a fear, and then of course subsequently lay into the 'lock / priest with 20% extra damage (like "Now I'm REALLY pissed" ;->)

I'll give it to you from my perspective ... soloing as fury, I never really used it, and tbh, with the recent(ish) nerf to deathwish / enrage not stacking, I don't think it was a problem, cos a fair amount of time enrage is up, and that gives me +25% (not +20%) damage, and I don't take the extra damage either.

Having SS, however, while soloing is a HUGE boost. I can now take on more mobs at once. Think SS, cleave and WW (with BOTH weapons ftw). I'm actually quite cool with this change.

If you spec to the normal 35/23/3, you'll probably still pick up both of them for PvP, so no loss there.

Same goes for Weapon Mastery / Imp intercept. You'll prolly still get them with the same spec layout (assuming you still want both of them, but that question would have been there regardless of these changes).

Also, with Arms being the preferred PvP spec, imp Intercept makes more sense being there (not really being that important for Solo Play).

I feel sorry for my raiding DPS Fury brothers, I really do. This hits hard and will lessen the viability/advantage a warrior has for melee dps (or dps in general), over rogues / mages and the like. But for me, it's actually a plus. Not sure whether to laugh or cry :-/

Edit: soz ... Just read Greenroom's comments which are pretty much the same as I've said here ... Reading the entire thread ftw :-/

Edited, Oct 12th 2007 3:59am by robertlofthouse
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#22 Oct 12 2007 at 2:22 AM Rating: Good
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they had better change sweeping strikes to a flat duration instead of a charged ability. the reason why SS sucks for DW is because getting an SS'ed hit from your OH is essentially useless. 10 charges wont make a difference.

the hamstring change makes me lol. i dont know a single warrior who doesnt already re-apply hammy at the 7-8s mark anyway. whoop dee doo.

intercept and WM change is....odd. i guess this is their way (along with death wish) of making warriors spec deep arms. if mid-range fury is so much better than deep arms for pvp, then why not make mid-range fury into mid-range arms?

edit: im looking at some of the comments on the O-boards...and i dont see this doing jack for deep arms still. my pvp spec will be EXACTLY the same, only some talents have been swapped. ill still be 33/28 MS/flurry, only DW is now under the arms tab in my skillbook, while SS is now under the fury tab.

again, i say....whoop dee f*cking doo.

Edited, Oct 12th 2007 3:27am by Quor
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#23 Oct 12 2007 at 4:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I have a question about the reworking of the talent trees. Will warriors get a free respec because so many things are being moved?

Edited, Oct 12th 2007 8:54am by Evocables
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#24 Oct 12 2007 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Edit: soz ... Just read Greenroom's comments which are pretty much the same as I've said here ... Reading the entire thread ftw :-/


/flex :P

Quote:
they had better change sweeping strikes to a flat duration instead of a charged ability. the reason why SS sucks for DW is because getting an SS'ed hit from your OH is essentially useless. 10 charges wont make a difference.


That just occurred to me too. A fast OH means you're eating up those charges pretty fast and wasting them. Comon blizz... make it sorta like blade flurry, except without the speed increase so it stays on a 30 sec CD.
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#25 Oct 12 2007 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
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It seems that Bliz wants to make Arms the PvP tree and Fury the PvE tree and, as such, has swapped the talents that made the trees a little more well rounded.

I'm not sure what this change was intended to do. The most popular arena specs remain unaffected, but deep Fury really got screwed. Arms builds didn't get hit as hard because no one takes more than 35 points in arms, so you can still pick up the talents you want in the Fury tree.

Hybrid Arms/Prot builds (like myself) also get screwed. I relied a lot on SS for soloing, and I'm really going to miss it. Deathwish is nice for PvP, but the 3 min CD kinda blows for soloing.

I still really just don't know what to say.
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#26 Oct 12 2007 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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* Charge will work more often when targets are up against unpathable areas like walls and poles.


Buff. No explaination needed.

Quote:
* Defiance (Protection) now also grants 2/4/6 weapon expertise.


Tanking buff. Welcome change.

Quote:
* Devastate (Protection) now combines the effects of Sunder Armor into its effect. It is also now affected by all talents and items that affect Sunder Armor.


9 rage devastates. Oooraaaa, tank buff.

Quote:
* Disarm is now subject to diminishing returns in PvP.


Since our disarm is on a 1 minute cooldown this doesn't affect us. Mainly put into our notes because it affects all disarm effects and rogues can do it as often as they parry.

Quote:
* Improved Berserker Stance (Fury) now also reduces all threat caused while in Berserker Stance by 2/4/6/8/10%


I need a towel now. Mega buff.

Quote:
* Improved Intercept and Weapon Mastery have swapped locations in the talent trees.


Nothing really changes since PVP builds will stay the same as far as point distribution and PvE builds will stay the same since we have better choices anyways.

Quote:
* Intervene will no longer place you in combat.


Wooptidoo.

Quote:
* Hamstring now has a 10 second duration when used on PvP targets.


No effect, it gets reapplied well before then anyways.

Quote:
* Mace Specialization (Arms) now has a reduced chance to occur but generates 7 rage instead of 6.


Nerf but called for, if we got lucky we could stun lock someone damn near to death.

Quote:
* Pummel: Interrupting a channeled spell with this ability will now always properly prevent casting spells from the same spell school for 4 sec.


Bug fix.

Quote:
* Shield Bash: Interrupting a channeled spell with this ability will now always properly prevent casting spells from the same spell school for 6 sec.


Bug fix.

Quote:
* Shield Slam (Protection) now always tries to dispel one Magic effect on the target.


Buff.

Quote:
* Sweeping Strikes and Deathwish have swapped locations in the talent trees.


Seriously wtf is this shit. 10 charges of SS at least 5 of those will be consumed by my off hand. This changes nothing for PVP specs this is only a nerf to PVE dps. Perhaps this is how they are trying to steer us back to 2 handed fury since the windfury nerf?

[quote]* Sweeping Strikes (Fury) now lasts 10 seconds and affects your next 10 swings.[/quote]

See above.

[quote]* Tactical Mastery: This talent also now grants greatly increased threat from Mortal Strike and Bloodthirst when in Defensive Stance. [/quote]

Blizz - "You can spec what ever you want but we still want you to just tank, so here is a buff to your tanking threat in whatever tree you go down."

[quote]* Weapon Mastery (Arms) now reduces duration of Disarm effects against you by 25/50% rather than giving you a 50% chance to avoid or full immunity to Disarm effects. [/quote]

This has been covered in other threads.

[quote]* Whirlwind: This ability now strikes with both weapons when a Warrior is dual-wielding.[/quote]

Buff to PvE dps, though be it a small one.




All in all we got some really good buffs but then Blizz goes and turns our world on end with a talent swap that makes no sence what so ever. As said before if they were going to swap anything it should of been DW spec and enrage in the fury tree.


Edit: for some reason I can't get quotes to work halfway through my post, but you can tell what I'm doing.

Edited, Oct 12th 2007 2:39pm by Jimpadan
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