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Paladin 2.3 ChangesFollow
Paladins
* Cleanse and Purify range increased to 40 yards.
* Crusader Strike (Retribution) cooldown reduced from 10 to 6 seconds.
* Exorcism mana cost reduced.
* Hammer of Wrath mana cost reduced.
* Holy Wrath mana cost reduced.
* Improved Seal of the Crusader (Retribution) benefits folded into the base spell. This talent now gives the benefits of the Sanctified Crusader talent instead.
* Pursuit of Justice (Retribution) is now 3 ranks and increases movement speed by 5/10/15% and also reduces the chance you'll be hit by spells by 1/2/3%.
* Sanctified Crusader (Retribution) renamed Sanctified Seals, which now increases your chance to critically hit with all spells and melee attacks by 1/2/3% and reduces the chance your Seals will be dispelled by 33/66/100%.
* Vengeance (Retribution) duration increased from 15 to 30 seconds.
* Vindication (Retribution) frequency and duration increased and now reduces all attributes by 5/10/15%, not just Strength and Agility.
* Weapon Expertise (Protection) renamed Combat Expertise, now increases expertise by 1/2/3/4/5 and total Stamina by 2/4/6/8/10%.
The last point is a godsend for tankadins. Though I don't know what "increases expertise by 5" means.
newfangle wrote:
P
The last point is a godsend for tankadins. Though I don't know what "increases expertise by 5" means.
I guess they mean "weapon skill"
EDIT: Ah no, read the rest of the patch notes:
Quote:
Expertise: We have added a new stat and associated rating called expertise and expertise rating. Expertise rating converts to expertise at the same rate that weapon skill rating formerly converted at. Each point of expertise reduces the chance for your attacks to be dodged or parried by 0.25%.
Edited, Oct 11th 2007 10:53pm by Alastaironsiren
Cleanse and Purify range increased to 40 yards = WIN. No more running in closer to dispel pain during Prince
I was wondering what to use my last 3 talent points onn. As a pure tankadin (no consessions to any other form of play), I will definatly be saving them for Weapon Expertise and the increase in stamina.
Also consider the new improved crusader, since by virtue of tanking a target you add 3% crit to the entire raid.
Argh, so many talents, too little talent points for us Tanks. Gonna have to reconsider what the "Core" tanking talents are, as some of these new ones are almost absolutely going to be necessary towards tanking, another 10% stamina boost, a 1.25% chance to not be dodged/parried when attacking which helps with the Reckoning problem. PoJ giving a 3% miss chance on spells...
This is madness!
There seemed to be 3 talent points floating around after getting the necessary tanking talents, but now 3 in Imp Crusader for raid dps, 3 in PoJ for -spell damage and 5 in Combat Expertise for 10% sta and 5 Expertise rating... This is going to require some thinking.
This is madness!
There seemed to be 3 talent points floating around after getting the necessary tanking talents, but now 3 in Imp Crusader for raid dps, 3 in PoJ for -spell damage and 5 in Combat Expertise for 10% sta and 5 Expertise rating... This is going to require some thinking.
Agreed. Im thinking that I may go 4/5 reckoning and 4/5 ardent Defender. That would let me toss 3 into what was Improved seal of the crusader, 5 into Combat Expertise, and the flexibility of swaping ISotC with Pursuit of Justice.
Yet more bloat to an already overbloated prot tree, though :(
The Honorable CapJack wrote:
This is madness!
QFT :)
Come to think of it, at 500 stamina, 5/5 Combat Expertise only adds 500 health. Still not exactly stellar.
Well I see Paladin tanks with 14k HP in my guild, about 10 of which is stamina based. 1k is a lot.
~sins
~sins
I'd get almost 900 more health with a 10% increase currently. That would be very nice indeed :)
Alastaironsiren wrote:
Come to think of it, at 500 stamina, 5/5 Combat Expertise only adds 500 health. Still not exactly stellar.
Yeah 500 is pretty low, im at a bit over 710 stamina and another 710 hp would be verrry nice.
Also the 5 points in Expertise will help as I bet tanks are going to want to start focusing some stats in there, no parries = no surprises from bosses.
General question, mainly for preparing:
is there a talent calculator preview version also? I want to play around!
is there a talent calculator preview version also? I want to play around!
I haven't seen one (I haven't looked either). In my other thread, I just put points in the talents i wanted keeping in mind the changes, nothing new is being added and nothing is being removed, only difference is PoJ is getting 3 points instead of 2, and to represent that I just threw one in SoC.
Yes, CapJack I noticed that and it works ok. But still I am not living on an imaginary plane (unless I am plugged in in the wow-world of course), so I like to play with real things (my girl being nr 1, all others a close second /smile) with real new talents, just for the sake of it.
But again, I myself search with google for a 2.3 talent calculator also, but did not find any. Was merely wondering if any of you did.
But again, I myself search with google for a 2.3 talent calculator also, but did not find any. Was merely wondering if any of you did.
Look like Ret will (finally) get threat reduction talents:
After further discussion and testing we’ve decided to add threat reduction deep in the paladin's retribution tree. Fanaticism will now reduce threat caused by all actions by 6/12/18/24/30%, in addition to its current effect.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2366553374&sid=1
Odd place to put it but w/e just nice to finally see them
do something about it.
Quote:
After further discussion and testing we’ve decided to add threat reduction deep in the paladin's retribution tree. Fanaticism will now reduce threat caused by all actions by 6/12/18/24/30%, in addition to its current effect.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2366553374&sid=1
Odd place to put it but w/e just nice to finally see them
do something about it.
Hmm, thats pretty neat
Damnit... the only thing preventing me from being ret was not being viable in raids... I leveled ret, I love swinging a big 2-hander, tho tanking was always a "next best thing" for me.
Once the expansion comes out I miiiight try it, I will at least feel a little more justified in spending >1k gold for my Thunder (and 6 more nethers from upgrading to Deep Thunder).
Once the expansion comes out I miiiight try it, I will at least feel a little more justified in spending >1k gold for my Thunder (and 6 more nethers from upgrading to Deep Thunder).
KTurner wrote:
Hmm, thats pretty neat
Indeed. With the other changes and this, ret paladins may actually be viable in raids. Though they'll still likely require a more skilled player for the same level of DPS than a rogue or warrior. But still, it's a change that many may love.
Wow. If that change goes through, I might respec for a while to test it out. You know, for old time's sake ;) Like Jack I leveled Ret, and before they fixed our Protection tree, tanked Ret (easy guys, just 5 mans and UBRS). Would be fun to go back and see how I'd do.
now the question is, will this actually help anything or were retadins just using this as an excuse as to why they suck so much.
Personally i dont see a ret pally being able to put out the numbers, threat or no threat.
When all is said and done you still got hybrid DPS (which is always ALWAYS lower than a full-on DPSer) and the same crappy utility. Why not bring a real DPS class, which are more than abundant.
I still like tommy's idea with judging up to 3 seals and keeping them up with CS... Or if raid bosses are effected by vindication >_>
Personally i dont see a ret pally being able to put out the numbers, threat or no threat.
When all is said and done you still got hybrid DPS (which is always ALWAYS lower than a full-on DPSer) and the same crappy utility. Why not bring a real DPS class, which are more than abundant.
I still like tommy's idea with judging up to 3 seals and keeping them up with CS... Or if raid bosses are effected by vindication >_>
I have a feeling Mr. Turner that even if Retadins were about to get the best buffs of their life, effectively dominating the DPS charts, you would still be skeptical about their viability.
It's like a wife that you caught cheating on you... repeatedly, for a couple years. Now she wants you back and claimed that she has changed for the better and she can be the woman you always wanted but there's still that doubt in your head and the painful history whenever you look at her, no matter what she has done to bring her life around.
It's like a wife that you caught cheating on you... repeatedly, for a couple years. Now she wants you back and claimed that she has changed for the better and she can be the woman you always wanted but there's still that doubt in your head and the painful history whenever you look at her, no matter what she has done to bring her life around.
Not the case at all.
I would love ret to be raid viable, but i dont think a DPS increase is the answer. I think they need to bring something good that nobody else can bring. I want people to say "We would like to get a ret pally in on this."
They will never dominate the DPS charts, that just will not happen. But you dont have to top the DPS charts to be raid viable.
This doesnt fix a whole lot imo.
I would love ret to be raid viable, but i dont think a DPS increase is the answer. I think they need to bring something good that nobody else can bring. I want people to say "We would like to get a ret pally in on this."
They will never dominate the DPS charts, that just will not happen. But you dont have to top the DPS charts to be raid viable.
This doesnt fix a whole lot imo.
It may (or may not) fix the issue, but at least it shows Blizzard is listening. Plus it should stop some of the whining from the ret brigade :P
how about the reneging(word?) on the whole support thing!!! WTF!
either Mr Blue Eyonix doesn't know wtf he's talkin about or Blizzard is just plain retarded when it comes to Ret pallies.
the way i see it in the next patch, Ret will be OP in pvp and displaced in pve. pallies can already mash any melee class. add more burst and run speed, now they can destroy any caster as well. in pve, more pallies will stray from the healer roll and go dps. with the added dmg and lesser threat ret pallies will push lesser geared dps classes off of the "wanted list" in exchange for more dmg and better buffs.
what happened to the "shadow priest-like" pve utility? Blizz took the me mash harded approach instead of stickin to the plan.
and you thought i'd rejoice at the good news :D maybe i'm just bitter cause i just respec'd.
either Mr Blue Eyonix doesn't know wtf he's talkin about or Blizzard is just plain retarded when it comes to Ret pallies.
the way i see it in the next patch, Ret will be OP in pvp and displaced in pve. pallies can already mash any melee class. add more burst and run speed, now they can destroy any caster as well. in pve, more pallies will stray from the healer roll and go dps. with the added dmg and lesser threat ret pallies will push lesser geared dps classes off of the "wanted list" in exchange for more dmg and better buffs.
what happened to the "shadow priest-like" pve utility? Blizz took the me mash harded approach instead of stickin to the plan.
and you thought i'd rejoice at the good news :D maybe i'm just bitter cause i just respec'd.
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