- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Ravage vs Pounce
Ravage vs PounceFollow
Scholar
40 posts
I'm a 70 feral with a simple question. What is better, Pounce or Ravage? I tried looking for the answer but to no avail.
For soloing or grouping?
Pounce 90% of the time, if not more. It allows for more flexible strategies.
The only time I'd use Ravage is against a sitting clothy, and then again I might just use Pounce anyway. Forces Mages to blow their Blink and stuff like that.
The only time I'd use Ravage is against a sitting clothy, and then again I might just use Pounce anyway. Forces Mages to blow their Blink and stuff like that.
Unless someone is tanking what you're sneakin up at, it's nearly always Pounce. Its stun lets you, for example, get behind your target and Shred - with Shredding Attacks that is 2 energy more than Claw and the effect is more crippling for your target.
This problem is unlike cheap shot / ambush one of a rogue, cause Pounce places a Dot on the target. This Dot deals roughly as much damage as the Ravage's bonus dmg. It gives you 4 seconds free at the start of the combat, which for example translates into 2 energy ticks ( = 40 Energy points bonus) and 4 extra hits with cat form, which give you back the 360% damage bonus of Ravage. More, Pounce costs 50 Energy, Ravage costs 60.
So, all in all, unless you really need/want to take the target down in one shot (for example while sneaking up on a wounded Mage in a group PvP Encounter, who would Blink out of your Pounce's stun), your choice would definately be Pounce.
This problem is unlike cheap shot / ambush one of a rogue, cause Pounce places a Dot on the target. This Dot deals roughly as much damage as the Ravage's bonus dmg. It gives you 4 seconds free at the start of the combat, which for example translates into 2 energy ticks ( = 40 Energy points bonus) and 4 extra hits with cat form, which give you back the 360% damage bonus of Ravage. More, Pounce costs 50 Energy, Ravage costs 60.
So, all in all, unless you really need/want to take the target down in one shot (for example while sneaking up on a wounded Mage in a group PvP Encounter, who would Blink out of your Pounce's stun), your choice would definately be Pounce.
Scholar
40 posts
Thanks for the replies.
I was hoping for a different answer because this basically means that Ravage is useless in solo and almost just as useless in group. Maybe if Blizzard tweaked Ravage a bit, like lower energy cost or be able to use it from the front of the target (Pounce can be used from the front and behind), it would be a more viable choice for an opener. Guess I'll write a letter.
I was hoping for a different answer because this basically means that Ravage is useless in solo and almost just as useless in group. Maybe if Blizzard tweaked Ravage a bit, like lower energy cost or be able to use it from the front of the target (Pounce can be used from the front and behind), it would be a more viable choice for an opener. Guess I'll write a letter.
I agree with Pounce. Just pretend you don't have ravage - why let it bother you that you could choose either?
Pounce works very well pve. Not only for the above reasons, but also because it's x seconds where the mob can't hurt you. If you're grinding, this extends the number of kills you can make w/out stopping to heal. You go faster. Gosh, on naga casters in Zang, I can sometimes kill them without them doing any damage to me (or very little).
And I hate those Nagas.
PvP pounce - and then the finishing move that stuns - these are both incredibly useful. We don't have the rogue's full toybox of nasty tricks, but we do have a few. Stunning is good.
Pounce works very well pve. Not only for the above reasons, but also because it's x seconds where the mob can't hurt you. If you're grinding, this extends the number of kills you can make w/out stopping to heal. You go faster. Gosh, on naga casters in Zang, I can sometimes kill them without them doing any damage to me (or very little).
And I hate those Nagas.
PvP pounce - and then the finishing move that stuns - these are both incredibly useful. We don't have the rogue's full toybox of nasty tricks, but we do have a few. Stunning is good.
ZerosMayhem wrote:
Thanks for the replies.
I was hoping for a different answer because this basically means that Ravage is useless in solo and almost just as useless in group. Maybe if Blizzard tweaked Ravage a bit, like lower energy cost or be able to use it from the front of the target (Pounce can be used from the front and behind), it would be a more viable choice for an opener. Guess I'll write a letter.
I was hoping for a different answer because this basically means that Ravage is useless in solo and almost just as useless in group. Maybe if Blizzard tweaked Ravage a bit, like lower energy cost or be able to use it from the front of the target (Pounce can be used from the front and behind), it would be a more viable choice for an opener. Guess I'll write a letter.
I don't understand your logic.
Not every skill has to be used every fight, or even useful all the time. Look at Rake for a perfect example; waste of energy for your average feral druid, but still useful if you need a dot up on something asap.
Scholar
40 posts
And thats it though, if I need to dot something for whatever reason, I can use rake. Rake has a purpose. Unlike ravage.
Doesn't it bother anyone (besides me) that a skill as powerful as ravage has no use at all?
Doesn't it bother anyone (besides me) that a skill as powerful as ravage has no use at all?
Well I know some feral like to try their luck by ravaging locks and priests. Because if that thing crits...
ZerosMayhem wrote:
And thats it though, if I need to dot something for whatever reason, I can use rake. Rake has a purpose. Unlike ravage.
Doesn't it bother anyone (besides me) that a skill as powerful as ravage has no use at all?
Doesn't it bother anyone (besides me) that a skill as powerful as ravage has no use at all?
Uh.
Who said it doesn't have a use?
Using Pounce on stun immune or bleed immune mobs is an incredible mistake, and if you catch a clothie sitting down I'd hope you'd think to Ravage them instead of just following your standard routine...the bleed effect on Pounce may do as much damage as Ravage, but it takes 12 seconds to do. Ravage is our Ambush, and if you get that kind of a drop on someone they're likely to panic, in many cases.
Even (non-Dire) Bear Form past lvl 40 would have its use. For example, if you had a good healer buddy in a moderately challenging fight, you could want to reduce your armor by some amount to increase your Rage gained and therefore increase your DPS to end the fight quicker.
But generally you wouldn't use Bear when you have its Dire twin, would you?
Everything has its uses. The basic difference that may outline the usability of Ravage is that (I believe I won't blast some bullshlt here) Ravage mitigates with armor, while Pounce, being bleed damage, does not.
This means that Ravage can blast the brains out of a Cloth wearer, while Pounce would deal a moderate amount of damage and in a slow rate. Also, bleeding can be stopped and stuns can be cleared (Blink etc.), while Ravage once it lands, leaves a shining hole in the enemy's HP bar.
Edited, Oct 11th 2007 3:01pm by XanNerull
But generally you wouldn't use Bear when you have its Dire twin, would you?
Everything has its uses. The basic difference that may outline the usability of Ravage is that (I believe I won't blast some bullshlt here) Ravage mitigates with armor, while Pounce, being bleed damage, does not.
This means that Ravage can blast the brains out of a Cloth wearer, while Pounce would deal a moderate amount of damage and in a slow rate. Also, bleeding can be stopped and stuns can be cleared (Blink etc.), while Ravage once it lands, leaves a shining hole in the enemy's HP bar.
Edited, Oct 11th 2007 3:01pm by XanNerull
Setai wrote:
Well I know some feral like to try their luck by ravaging locks and priests. Because if that thing crits...
It's also good to sometimes take out an imp before fighting a 'lock mob.
At least in PvE they are usually one-shot-dead even on a non-crit.
Norellicus wrote:
Using Pounce on stun immune or bleed immune mobs is an incredible mistake
As far as bleed-immune mobs, I prefer Pouncing them because I can get in faerie fire, mangle, and a shred (2 shreds with an ooc proc) before they turn around. I haven't done the math (I'm lazy like that) but that's gotta be almost as much damage as a Ravage (right?) with the bonus of giving me 4 combo-points instead of 1. (three chances for a crit + 33% crit rate = almost always gonna get one crit in a series of pounce, mangle, shred)
when/why did you retire selv? thats a bit of a surprise to me.
on topic, as said before, mostly pounce, sometimes ravage. remember that casting-types tend to have lower armor (as do ethereals) so sometimes gambling on a ravage can pay off with a real quick kill, but higher armor targets will be better served with a pounce. even lower armor targets will in some cases, since you can use pounce to generate more consistent combo point gain than ravage (if ravage crits, great, but with pounce your guaranteed at least three cp from the opener and the two following moves, and if one of those following crits, youre at four anyway).
on topic, as said before, mostly pounce, sometimes ravage. remember that casting-types tend to have lower armor (as do ethereals) so sometimes gambling on a ravage can pay off with a real quick kill, but higher armor targets will be better served with a pounce. even lower armor targets will in some cases, since you can use pounce to generate more consistent combo point gain than ravage (if ravage crits, great, but with pounce your guaranteed at least three cp from the opener and the two following moves, and if one of those following crits, youre at four anyway).
Quote:
Uh.
Who said it doesn't have a use?
Using Pounce on stun immune or bleed immune mobs is an incredible mistake, and if you catch a clothie sitting down I'd hope you'd think to Ravage them instead of just following your standard routine...the bleed effect on Pounce may do as much damage as Ravage, but it takes 12 seconds to do. Ravage is our Ambush, and if you get that kind of a drop on someone they're likely to panic, in many cases.
Who said it doesn't have a use?
Using Pounce on stun immune or bleed immune mobs is an incredible mistake, and if you catch a clothie sitting down I'd hope you'd think to Ravage them instead of just following your standard routine...the bleed effect on Pounce may do as much damage as Ravage, but it takes 12 seconds to do. Ravage is our Ambush, and if you get that kind of a drop on someone they're likely to panic, in many cases.
Thank you for saying this 1st.
28 posts
Personally, I love ravage, mostly cause 70-80% of the time, i crit and it does some nasty damage, I rarely use pounce unless its against a caster. But even still, ravage does 350% damage plus like 500 damage. Thats a ton of HP. I usually crit for up to 3k. Then I follow up with rip & manage giving them a dot, then i just sit back and react to whatever they try. I leave myself flexible to situations. But thats just me. Reading the previous posts, I guess it just depends on the player. Though consider 1 thing, in boss fights, pounce has no effect :) Where as ravage will definitely have an effect.
wRabbit wrote:
Personally, I love ravage, mostly cause 70-80% of the time, i crit and it does some nasty damage, I rarely use pounce unless its against a caster. But even still, ravage does 350% damage plus like 500 damage. Thats a ton of HP. I usually crit for up to 3k. Then I follow up with rip & manage giving them a dot, then i just sit back and react to whatever they try. I leave myself flexible to situations. But thats just me. Reading the previous posts, I guess it just depends on the player. Though consider 1 thing, in boss fights, pounce has no effect :) Where as ravage will definitely have an effect.
Congrat on your 70-80% crit rate. I thought I was doing well at 33%...I guess I have some work to do. ;)
Seems odd to save Pounce for casters, as they are low armor and therefore the better target for Ravage which you seem to like a lot (plus that Mages can blink out of a Pounce) while higher armor targets mitigate more of Ravages damage but would take the full bleed damage of a pounce.
I tried to do some actual math comparing the openers for us 70s. I'm not taking into account mitigation cuz that's over my head, and I'm not a math guy so this is probably totally FUBAR but I wanted to try.
Assuming a base hit of 200.
Assuming a bleed- or at least stun-susceptible mob.
Scenario One
- Ravage: 200x350%+514 = 1214 (crit 2418)
Scenario Two
- Pounce: Initiates 600 bleed damage over 18 seconds
- Faerie Fire
- Mangle: 200x160%+264 = 584 (crit 1168)
- Shred: 200x225%+405 = 855 (crit 1710)
- Shred 2 with OoC: 855
Assume no crit on a ravage, as that's the 68%ish probability.
Assume 1 out of 3 attacks in scenario two because most 70 druids have a crit rate around 32-33%. I'll assume a crit on the mangle since it's the lowest number, just to be conservative.
Ravage: 1214, 1 combopoint (best case scenario 2428 and 2)
Pounce/Mangle/Shred: 2023 worth of hits + 600 bleed damage, 3-4 combo points. With the second shred of an OoC proc, opening damage jumps to 2878.
Pounce = minimum 3, maximum 7 (crit on mangle, crit on shred, omen proc somewhere along the line, crit on clearcast shred) combo points on a stun-susceptible mob (while solo).
Ravage = minimum 1, maximum 2 combo points.
I RARELY use ravage; it's almost exclusively pounce -> mangle -> shred for openers.
Oh and with the theorycrafting of the pounce -> mangle -> shred damage, bleed damage scales with attack power, plus the 30% increase in bleed damage taken debuff thanks to mangle. You're looking at an EASY 3-4k damage just from openers if you get a lucky streak of crits in.
Edited, Oct 12th 2007 10:07pm by soggymaster
Ravage = minimum 1, maximum 2 combo points.
I RARELY use ravage; it's almost exclusively pounce -> mangle -> shred for openers.
Oh and with the theorycrafting of the pounce -> mangle -> shred damage, bleed damage scales with attack power, plus the 30% increase in bleed damage taken debuff thanks to mangle. You're looking at an EASY 3-4k damage just from openers if you get a lucky streak of crits in.
Edited, Oct 12th 2007 10:07pm by soggymaster
Quor wrote:
when/why did you retire selv? thats a bit of a surprise to me.
Sorry for the minor thread hijack here. Gonna try to keep it brief.
I stopped a month ago. I was tired of being a Holy Pally, unable to do anything by myself and people kept asking me to heal this and that. Wanted to level my Druid but they kept asking me to switch to Pally, etc.
Got bored because I didn't raid nor did I have time to. I have difficulty saying no to people and sometimes I ended up starting runs a bit too late, and it would end up with me going to bed past my time and I'd be tired at work the next day.
I'm sure you get the idea. :P
It still happens that I feel like leveling a Druid when I'm bored, but I know I can do better with my free time. I've started working out since I've stopped so it's good for my health and all. There's too little time in a single day. :(
Recent Visitors: 133
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (133)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Ravage vs Pounce
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC