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+ Healing or +Int ? Blonde Needs Help!Follow

#1 Oct 09 2007 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Hello, Everyone -

I've been reading these forums for several months, and I'd like to say thank you to all of you who post here for helping the rest of us!

I KNOW this question has probably been asked a million times before, but in all the discussions I've read, I can't find a clear answer. Maybe there just isn't one.

I'm a level 61 Holy Priest, and now that we have made it to the Outlands, I'm starting to get alot of +healing gear. I'm also getting alot of drops or quest rewards with some serious +int/spirit.

My question is this. Is it better to take all the +healing gear so that my heals are more powerful and use less total mana, should I take all the +int/spririt to enlarge my mana pool, or is a combination of both the best option?

If anyone knows of a formula or ratio that's used to calculate this kind of thing, I'd be grateful for any help or advice you could give me.


Right now my mana is right around 6000 with about +275 healing. We don't usually do instances, so I haven't gotten a lot of the good gear...... yet. Please let me know if those numbers sound like I've missed the bus somewhere.

My spec is all Holy... right down the dreaded CoH, which I find handy for the instant, if not great heals.


I should probably mention that I very rarely solo anything. I'm always grouped with a Shaman and Hunter. Correction. Melee hunter....so healing does play a pretty big part! lol.

Thanks very much for your help!
#2 Oct 09 2007 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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19,369 posts
I don't know for sure because my priest is only lvl 51 and I play shadow.

However I would think it's a good balance between them all.

If you find yourself going OOM or LOM get more int/spr. If you find your heals can't keep up with the dmg get +healing.

I actually keep sets between int/spr +healing and +shadow/spell dmg gear. When I run instances I'll switch between 2-3 sets depending on what is needed. If my mana is a problem I'll switch to the int/spr. If I need the heals the +heal and if I need the dps the +shadow/spell dmg set.

I also use Outfitter to set a seperate button for each set. You can switch between sets quickly and easily. This does take up more inventory space though. Also you can't switch out armor during combat, but you can switch out weapons. IIRC
#3 Oct 09 2007 at 12:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,073 posts
General rules: +healing and regen from spirit and/or mana per five are superior to all. Intellect, spell crit, and stamina are strictly secondary concerns.

Reasoning: +healing allows you to use less mana overall and directly improves your healing-per-second, allowing you to keep up with more punishing enemies or weaker tanks. Regeneration is almost as important to ensure the survivability of everyone involved long-term. I prefer spirit but that's because of my system; a mix of spirit and mana-per-five is sound.

Intellect, stamina, and spell crit are secondary concerns. Why? In many fights, you will find yourself using far more mana than exists in your primary pool, due to regen. Buffing your intellect gives you extra mana you only use once. Buffing your regen gives you extra mana to use time and time again. In certain short, intense fights, straight intellect can be superior, but these are not common. Stamina is less important for healing duties because you yourself will not typically come under direct attack. You can't totally neglect it due to the proliferation of AoE attacks, but it is _not_ a primary concern. Finally, spell crit should be last on your list. Yes, it procs Inspiration more. It's still not a healing stat. Spell crit is inherently unreliable. You cannot count on it to be there when you need it, and many times the extra healing is entirely wasted.

Circle of Healing is not terribly good until you get to high-end (25-man) raiding. You'll be better off getting Divine Spirit / IDS. At your level, most of CoH's functionality is duplicated by Prayer of Healing... not insta-cast, but that shouldn't really be a problem.

EDIT: Fixed grammar.

Edited, Oct 9th 2007 4:13pm by ChahDresh
#4 Oct 09 2007 at 6:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Go for the the highest plus healing gear with intel and spirit (or mana regen). Allot of it comes with all 3 stats. You will find as you level that you need powerful heals.

When keeping renew (and PoM) up on the tank, you are going to want it ticking off at the highest heal per tick possible, as well as having bigger main heals.

Right now I've passed +1600 healing, and have my sights set on raising that another 100. We have a little friendly competition among our guild's holy priests. The're nipping at my heals.

Edited, Oct 9th 2007 11:07pm by dadanox
#5 Oct 09 2007 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
If you go for full +healing you'll end up overhealing each heal and go OOM fast.

Go for about 2/3 +healing and 1/3 Int gear.

gives you plenty of +heal and enough mana to get thru each fight with ease.
#6 Oct 10 2007 at 4:39 AM Rating: Good
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194 posts
Wow... thank you all for the fast replies!

We had our little group out again last night and I tried using a combination of the +healing and +int/spi gear. I gave up +35 healing w/+12 int/+8 spi in favor of +27int/+27 spi. This left my mana pool at 5960 or so, and still getting about 325 per tick on my renew. My +healing is now at 345.

In order not to overheal like crazy, I've started letting the tanks health get a little lower. I usually pop a renew on him to "stablize" the situation once he's at about 75%. I see what that does and if he hits 50% I start winding up G heal. By the time it hits, he's at about 35-40% and it shoots him up above 90%. Our melee hunter (who was actually SHOOTING at things last night!! lol) can get by with an occasional renew on him and his pet depending on adds.

If anyone has an opinion on where my mana pool/+healing should be at level 61, I'd appreciate the input.

I'm going to try to get all the +healing I can get, it just seems that when the gear also has int/spi stats, they're minimal (+10 or so) where if there's no + healing on it, it has close to +30. THATS what makes me nuts. Give up 200 mana for +35 healing.....

I can't link to my armory page from work, but my toon is Alexxys on Azjol-Nerub if anyone would like to take a look and see if you could point me in a better direction. I'm sure I've wasted some talent points in the Holy tree.

Again, I appreciate all the help!



#7 Oct 10 2007 at 7:34 AM Rating: Decent
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1,574 posts
Bargain shop on the AH for "xxx of the Prophet" and "xxx of the Heirophant" green/blue gear. Those items give you a three-way split between intellect/spirit/healing and stamina/intellect/healing. Because of the way item design budgets work, you'll end up with more intellect, spirit, and healing overall by wearing three "of the Prophet" items than wearing one "of Intellect", one "of Spirit", and one "of Healing Power" items. Remember that stamina is important too.

I've got a priest in the low 60s, and I choose my gear by a simple formula: 1 point of +heal = 1 point of int = 1 point of MP5 = 12 points of spirit. I'll probably reweight MP5 once boss fights begin to take longer...until they take longer than two minutes, having a large enough initial mana pool due to int is quite possible.

You should be aware of two good methods a priest can use to become more mana-efficient. One is downranking greater heal. Instead of casting your highest rank every time, you should mostly be casting rank one and rank three. Your +heal will make these much cheaper spells powerful enough to keep your tank topped off with less overhealing. Secondly, you should practice interrupting your own heals. When your tank is at, say, 90% health or above, start casting your GH1, and if his health doesn't dip during the first two seconds of the cast, move slightly to the side to interrupt the heal. Doing this repeatedly will get you out of the five-second rule, allowing your mana to regenerate at the much higher spirit-boosted rate until you eventually need to actually finish the cast. Then follow up with a top-ranked renew if it's expired, and any spot healing the rest of your crew needs. Works great!

#8 Oct 10 2007 at 8:08 AM Rating: Decent
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194 posts
Awesome!!! Thank you so much! I've been wondering about all the "downgrading" I've been reading about! So basically GH1 = Heal rank 5 (or so??)with the +healing but costs less mana to cast.

Ugh...I'm gonna need more action bars!!! lol.

Thanks again! And I'll try the interrupt thing tonight too!
#9 Oct 10 2007 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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476 posts
GEAR
for gear wish-lists, i would check out http://www.wow-loot.com/priest.htm
the page has a nice section that shows you what worthwhile drops come out of Ramps, BF, Underbog, SP, etc. (and you'll be wearing the Raiments of Divine Authority from Blood Furnace for a long time, so definately try to pick that up)

DOWNRANKING
a few patches ago downranking started receiving a reduced percentage of your +heal, so i don't think downranking is worthwhile. pre-BC raiders used to use this to seriously extend their mana pool. with BC gear and downranking, players would theoretically be able to heal indefinetely (hence the change to downranking)

HEALING ADVICE
i recommend renew at the start of the fight
wait until tank is low enough for a greater heal
cast greater heal, immediately followed by a renew
then take advantage of the longest regen time you can get

boss fights, of course, will require spamming heals. this mostly applies to trash pulls.
#10 Oct 10 2007 at 8:55 AM Rating: Good
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2,029 posts
Firstly: ********* the hunter for melee'ing -_-

I'd say get your +healing up a bit more. More +heal means less heals casted means more mana saved, means intellect doesn't need to be as high. At your level, ignoring intellect wouldn't be wise either; fortunately, most blue gear has both.

I wouldn't downrank that much, personally. I'd rather keep Renew (and PoM, once you get it) ticking, and wait for a full-rank Gheal. That'll get more regen in than spamming a lower-level heal, because you'll need multiple heals and therefore more time inside the five-second rule without getting spirit ticks if you downrank.
EDIT: Downranking, post-BC< is mostly to reduce overhealing on bosses with multiple healers. This in itself is a bit counterproductive, since instead of you overhealing and "losing" mana, it's merely someone else. If you don't have multiple healers, and aren't overhealing with your normal gheal, there's no reason to downrank.

Once you get to high levels, regen and +healing is much more important than mana pool. My guild's main healer only has ~8500 mana iirc, but 195mp/5 while casting and +2100 healing - with no gear beyond Kara. He *never* runs out of mana. That level of +healing allows him to wait an extraordinarily long amount of time between heals, allowing for more ticks of spirit regen, and as a result, base mana pool is of absolutely no importance (to the point where he completely ignored weighting items for intellect some time ago).

A well-geared base point for 70 would be 120mp/5 while casting, +1200healing, and a mana pool above 8000, but I can't really give points before that. Blizz does have fairly horrible itemization for healing, however, and you won't be replacing gear anywhere near as quickly as others.

Here's/ a list of all the +healing gear available up until level 70 (though the ilvl112 items all require level 70 instances, ignore those for pre-70 stuff). I'd highly suggest running some instances for the items.

Edited, Oct 10th 2007 12:02pm by lsfreak
#11 Oct 10 2007 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Firstly: ********* the hunter for melee'ing -_-


LOL... oh we've ***** slaped him a few times. It works temporarily, but next thing you know he's in the middle of the fray wing clipping away. We've given up. We've played with him for almost a year now, and well, he's a hell of a lot of fun. I've told him several times that he's enough to give a healer a complex. I also figure it this way. If I can manage to keep a melee hunter, his poorly trained pet, myself AND the shammy tank alive during some pretty bad pulls, I should be in fairly decent shape to try healing some of the OL instances. I just hope we get a couple of decent dps'ers.

Seriously though, thank you so much for all the help and GREAT links. We're going to try to do more instances at this point so I can get the better gear. Hopefully all will go well.





#12 Oct 10 2007 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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1 MP5 = 1 INT = 12 Spirit, you feel? Blizzard compares in item budgeting 1 MP5 to 2.5 Spirit. I suppose I probably feel a bit shocked because my priest is a Discipline priest, and I loaded up on Spirit.

As far as melee hunters go: http://meleehunter.blogspot.com/
#13 Oct 10 2007 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Blizzard compares in item budgeting 1 MP5 to 2.5 Spirit.

You can't really use that formula for crap. Until you get to 25-man raids, mana regen is incredibly more useful than spirit, simply because you won't have time for spirit regen during a fight.

On melee hunters:
Hunter with Axe of the Gronn Lords. Averages 148dps naked. Hunter with Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix averages 222dps, even while ignoring 4 of his main DPS abilities, has higher crit rates, higher crit damage, and scales significantly better. Melee hunters and huntards, there is no way to justify otherwise.
#14 Oct 11 2007 at 4:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Melee hunters and huntards, there is no way to justify otherwise.


QFT.

When we started playing with our melee hunter friend, we were 3 hunters. There's a reason why my hubby and I re-rolled a shammy and a priest. Healing/Ressurrect. Saves MUCH time on the graveyard runs.

We know melee huntards are ridiculous, and we try to keep him out of the way of others.
#15 Oct 11 2007 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
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Raglu wrote:
1 MP5 = 1 INT = 12 Spirit, you feel? Blizzard compares in item budgeting 1 MP5 to 2.5 Spirit. I suppose I probably feel a bit shocked because my priest is a Discipline priest, and I loaded up on Spirit.


That's how Bliz budgets them on items, yes. I'm trying to describe my model for deciding which of two items is more useful to me.

Outside the five second rule, you need 1.6 spirit to give you 1MP5. If you have max Meditation, about 10.6 spirit gives you 1MP5 inside the 5 second rule--this will change in th next patch to about 5.3 spirit to 1MP5 inside the 5 second rule. So rating spirit at 2.5=1mp5 would be overvaluing it, in my opinion, if you're casting constantly during the long fights, as I often am at my level. But of course, if you have max Spiritual Healing, 4 spirit = 1 heal at the least, maybe 3 spirit = 1 heal to account for the regen bonus.

I'm sure your heavy spirit priest works well, especially if human.

Edit: my numbers for mana regen were off. Sorry!

Edited, Oct 18th 2007 3:40pm by emmitsvenson
#16 Oct 11 2007 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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1,574 posts
ixidoria wrote:
a few patches ago downranking started receiving a reduced percentage of your +heal, so i don't think downranking is worthwhile.


Downranking is not as efficient as it once was, but it's still worthwhile. It is still insanely efficient compared to big overheals or to flash heal, and much safer than waiting for low healthbars to prevent overhealing. Your +heal gear will not affect your GH1 as much as your max GH, but it will still greatly increase its power.

Don't take my word for it. Put GH1 and GH3 back on the toolbar, and see how your efficiency improves.
#17 Oct 17 2007 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
I was asking the same question as the OP some time ago, and after some discussion I got links to a few sites that actually calculated things (as opposed to guessing)
The most balanced opinion I found was this relationship:
1mp5 = 3 int = 8 +heal

That int vs mp5 is equal for fights that take about 3.5min. If the fights are shorter, int is more useful. For longer fights you profit more from mp5.
It's easy to calculate, as 1mp5 gives you 12mana per minute, and 1 int gives 15 mana (or some more if buffed with kings).

Spirit I really tend to count pretty low, definitely lower than int.
#18 Oct 17 2007 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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With the change to Meditation next patch, ~5.5spirit gives the same regen INSIDE the 5SR as 1mp5, and 3.5 times more outside, and even more if you have 3-piece PMC, plus unlike regen it scales with IDS, Spiritual Guidance, Kings, and Innervate. That's a huge change for main healing in heroics/raids.
#19 Oct 17 2007 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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1,073 posts
Yes, Isfreak, the change to Meditation is most welcome. I'm spirit-heavy on my priest; my effective raiding spirit score is about 900. That means the Meditation change will add *90* to my mana regen I5SR. This means that I get 180 mana/5 from _spirit_.

It gets better. Enter the Bangle of Endless Blessings. This thing scales infinitely. The more spirit you have, the more its proc is worth. I was already a big fan of it; this patch encourages still weightier stacking of spirit, increasing its value proportionately. With my 900 spirit, a proc gives me an additional 90 regen I5SR, pushing the mana/5 from spirit (I5SR) to 270. No other trinket even comes close.

The lovely thing about Spirit is that item budgeting does not accurately represent how much spirit you actually get. Between talents, my human racial, and BoK, spirit on gear is worth 1.3 times the listed amount for me. Mana/5 doesn't scale at all.

I'm an extreme example. But the point is: this patch makes spirit even more useful than it was before, and it was quite already.

The unfortunate thing is that the spec that allows you to maximize your spirit (40/21) does NOT allow you either of the talents that make spirit truly rock. No Spiritual Guidance, no Holy Concentration. It's tragic. Still, the standard 23/38 spec makes a spirit build potent indeed.
#20 Oct 17 2007 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
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194 posts
Thank you ALL for that great update....

I was considering a respec, into DS & IDS, but now I'm SURE I'm going home to find a trainer! After playing around with the talent calculators, of course! With all of that regen even INSIDE this FSR, it sounds like my total mana pool won't need to be quite as big at the start and I can feel less guilty about forsaking +int for + healing.

Thanks so much.... rate ups for everyone!
#21 Oct 17 2007 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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2,029 posts
~ChanDresh - and you dont' even need 23/38 in 25-man raiding :P We've got other priests to throw around DS, and our main healer will be at 250mp5 while casting and 2100 healing, with nothing outside of Kara.
/boggle
#22 Oct 18 2007 at 6:09 AM Rating: Decent
Wow, I missed the change to Meditation in the patch notes. That is really going to put spirit back into consideration for me. Because I still think it is not worth the item points right now.
I wonder if they will change the mooncloth set bonus at the same time. Because 5% becomes pretty insignificant compared to 30%.

Btw, please link the armory for a priest with 900 spirit. It sounds incredible. Right now I am not sure if ALL my combined stats sum up to 900.
#23 Oct 18 2007 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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1,073 posts
Quote:
Btw, please link the armory for a priest with 900 spirit. It sounds incredible. Right now I am not sure if ALL my combined stats sum up to 900.


Here's the link to my priest. However, current scores are not representative; I logged out with my stamina gear on. It'll change, naturally, as I log in/out with various stuff.

Say hi.

Also note that the 900 number I gave is fully raid buffed-- DS, BoK, MotW, and an Elixir of Draenic Wisdom (which I pair with an Elixir of Healing Power).

It's not really that hard. I just put Purified Shadow Pearls in any red or blue socket and, if given a choice between a piece of gear with mana/5 and a similar piece with spirit, favor spirit. Incidentally, this leads to you getting loot more frequently. Everyone likes mana/5, but paladins and shaman get almost nothing out of spirit. By favoring spirit gear you tend to reduce your competition.

Edited, Oct 18th 2007 1:39pm by ChahDresh
#24 Oct 19 2007 at 1:44 AM Rating: Decent
Thanks for the link. Very interesting - you really have high stats there, and not with some outrageous epics. Of course healers change their armor often (which is really bad for the armory), so the link will change constantly, but still good to look at it.
#25 Oct 20 2007 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
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245 posts
I will throw in two other wrenches into the conversation. Remember that priests have two ways to regenerate mana while fighting.

About halfway through a long fight, I pop inner focus after I get the tank to full health. Inner Focus helps in a free heal, but also does not put you back into the 5 second rule after casting that heal. That will give you full mana regeneration for a few seconds. I tend to use this on fights like the charged fist guys in Heroic Mech. I will heal the tank all the way (after a charged fist instance), throw on a renew, pop inner focus, and wait a while to cast it. It gives me a free heal, but also keeps me out of the 5 second rule longer.

Also remember that once you hit 66 you get your shadow fiend, basically a free pot every 5 minutes. This makes Intellect less important. I can heal almost all heroic bosses without using a pot with these two things. They help minimize the amount of mana I need.

And here is my armory, btw. I pug a lot, but my guild doesn't do Kara a lot, as you can tell by my gear. I try to get the highest + healing I can, and have extra gear in my pack for a little more + mana regen or a little more stats.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shadowsong&n=Holst
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