CoW + Shadow EmbraceFollow

They should stack, but I don't see why you'd be using CoW. CoA is preferable in just about every case, unless your running an Instance with an undergeared tank, but even then your lowering your damage and the mobs don't get burned down as fast. Most 'lock, except 1 lock in a raid, only take 1/5 Shadow Embrace for the extra Affliction effect so Soul Siphon gives you another 5%. I could be totally wrong here and someone will come along and correct me if I am.

CoW comes in very handy for the longer boss fights in raids. If you do all the math, which i won't, you can see that the damage reduction over a period of time on say a HKM fight, would save the healers a lot of heals/mana. Might make the difference between a close victory and a painful defeat if your on the edge of getting it done. One lock should have Imp. CoW and 5/5 shadow emb in a 25 man raid. It might gimp their DPS, but not by much as I still live at the top of the Dmg meters myself. My lock is Lukene on Moonrunner, and I think locks should provide more than great DPS. They are a class that can use Debuffs to help in many ways.

Well, focusing on damage reduction would not make sense if using the VW. He already takes damage very well, and can heal himself. You'd be much better off focusing on boosting your damage than lowering the damage he takes. if you were Drain Hunting on the other hand, well, nvm, I already Drain more life than things can hit me for, so lowering the damage I take there isn't really worthwhile either. Maybe in a PvP Drain Tanking Build I could see that working ok, but then your still sacrificing damage somewhere to max Imp CoW and Shadow Embrace. Basically, as was stated in my first post, the only real use for it is one of the warlocks in a raiding situation, and only one, the others should focus on boosting other peoples DPS(CoE/CoS) or thier own(CoA).

EDIT: Also, after looking at your build, your missing Imp. Drain Soul, critical if you want you VW Tanking, the 10% Threat Reduction is a staple in any Drain Hunting type of build.

Edited, Oct 9th 2007 5:01pm by Lathais

Odd hearing that coming from someone whos knowledgable about warriors. Lets look at the breakdown on -AP abilities in relation to talents.


Demo Shout: Untalented= -300 AP / Talented(5 points)= -420 AP
Demo Roar: Untalented= -240 AP / Talented(5 points)= -336 AP
CoW: Untalented= -350 AP / Talented(2 points)= -420 AP


That being said.

CoW, untalented, is superior to an untalented Demo Shout, as well as being superior to both talented and untalented Demo Roar.

CoW, talented, is superior to untalented Demo Shout, and equal to talented Demo Shout, as well as being superior to both talented and untalented Demo Roar.

Now we have the deathblow, a full talented Demo Shout requires 5 talent points. A full talented Demo Roar requires 5 talent points. A full talented CoW requires 2 talent points. Meaning CoW is also better in the aspect of talent point allocation.

The only place where Demo Shout/Roar is superior to CoW is when dealing with mass quantities of mobs, where the AoE effect of Demo Shout/Roar outshines the single target effect of CoW.

Now, to my point. Im saying this because I plan on specing in to Imp. CoW soon. For an affliction lock, as you begin to get better and better gear, and your spell hit gets higher, you start to have less and less need for the talent Supression, allowing you to move those un-needed points to other talents. At this point, all I ever really do with my toon is raid, dailies, and farm consumables for when I raid. With my current build (42/1/18) and gear, I only need a max of 2 points in Supression(I have 3 atm, havent respeced since I upgraded my boots). So I now have 1 point to do with as I will(eventually, I'll have 2 more as I will no longer need Supression at all). My options for this point(and later the other 2) are either Fel Concentration, Imp. CoA, or Imp. CoW.

I decided to go with Imp. CoW for a couple of reasons. Lets say I have 2 free points(I only have 1 atm, but will have 2 soon and it makes this a bit easier to explain). So here are the talents I can put these points into and why I decided to go with Imp. CoW.

Fel Concentration: Having 2 points in this talent would help me while soloing and pvping slightly. They would do me no good whatsoever in a raid enviornment where is where alot of my playtime is spent. Since I already have no problems mass farming solo, I see no point.

Imp. CoA: Again, maxing this talent would help me while soloing and pvping. But do me no good in raids where im usually casting CoS/CoE. Since I have no issues soloing atm, I see no point.

Imp. CoW: I figure, maxing this talent, would do me some good in a raid enviornment. Now mind you. I have Malediction as well, but alot of raid trash, and even many encounters have you up against multiple mobs. Meaning I can cast CoS/CoE on the mob being DPSed down, while casting CoW on mobs being OTed. Admittedly, this would lower my overall DPS by about a GCD or two depending on how many mobs are being OTed, but I think the real value in this comes from the talent points involved. I spend 2 talent points picking up Imp. CoW, with my only real DPS loss coming from the GCD's of casting the spell on the mobs, but in return, this frees up 5 talent points for the warriors/druids who are tanking as well as DPSing.

I have yet to test this out, but if this go's as I assume it will, alot could be gained from this. In return for me losing a miniscule ammount of my own personal DPS(not even due to specing into it, but rather from the GCD's from casting it), all the warriors/druids who had 5/5 in their respective talents could relocate them somewhere else, possably upping there DPS, upping their tanking ability, adding more utility, etc. All with the same ammount of -AP of Imp. Demo Shout.


I know specing into Imp. CoA would probably be the more common choice, but im liking this idea, and by the time I get enough spell hit to remove all points from Supression, I can have either 2/2 Imp. CoW with 1/2 Imp. CoA.....or 2/2 Imp. CoA with 1/2 Imp. CoW.....and with next patches nerf to Shadow Embrace effecting Soul Siphon, it may give me another free point(no point in having only 1 point anymore) to go 2/2 both.





Edited, Oct 14th 2007 2:34pm by Primusjuggalo