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Question for the mathletesFollow

#1 Oct 09 2007 at 5:33 AM Rating: Decent
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How much will something with +15 weapon skill affect your hit rating and overall DPS?

Would a Claw of the Netherwing Flight be better than a Ced's Carver?
#2 Oct 09 2007 at 8:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Unless it takes you from 350 skill to 355, not much. +Weapon Skill is pretty useless except to get you to 355, which is basically +3% hit. Any more is pretty useless, and any less is similarly useless.
#3 Oct 09 2007 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
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the claw would put me at 365 dagger skill. So, with precision that adds 8% chance to hit plus some change. Stack some hit on top of that and it seems like it would be a substantial boost to dps. The dagger itself has low top-end damage, but it seems the extra 3% would make up for it. To my understanding, though, this is better suited to pve than pvp.
#4 Oct 09 2007 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Just a few quick things.

1. The claw has +15 weapon skill rating. That's not gonna get you to 365. I believe it's more along the lines 3.8 weapon skill.

2. It's true that the +hit is better for PvE than PvP, but you're gonna want some for PvP as well. It certainly helps when stacking poisons. Make sure you stay above +5% to hit. As I said in your other post, you'll probably lose some of your (already low) +hit as there really is none on the PvP gear. Consider switching to a 41/20/0 build to pick up precision to make sure you don't miss your specials.

3. The claw is a good dagger, and it's free. You just have to do the quest line. It actually has higher top end (but lower bottom end) damage than Ced's carver. The rogue dps spreadsheet told me I had higher DPS output using the Claw as opposed to a second Ced's Carver. However, the Stam on Ced's makes it more attractive for PvP purposes.
#5 Oct 09 2007 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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And this is why I'm waiting for nooble's game mechanics guide.

I see +15 weapon skill, so I think, "hmm. 350 + 15 = 365. Yay."

So there must be two different things going on. What gives?
#6 Oct 09 2007 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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I believe the Wpn Skill mechanic is much like Hit and Crit Rating in that a certain amount of rating, in this case weapon skill, equates to a certain weapon skill.

So dagger skill rating will give a certain amount of dagger skill and so on.
#7 Oct 09 2007 at 9:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Latro's has +14 weapon skill, which raises my effective Sword Skill by 3 (353/350).

So the converstion is something around 1/4.
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#8 Oct 09 2007 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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shadowgryph wrote:
a certain amount of rating, in this case weapon skill, equates to a certain weapon skill.

Uh...

So Weapon skill equates to weapon skill, but weapon skill doesnt exactly translate into the same amount of weapon skill.

So you can see how this is confusing.
#9 Oct 09 2007 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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It's written poorly because I'm tired...

+15 Weapon Skill Rating = a certain amount of weapon skill

analagous to:

+10 Hit Rating = a certain amount of +hit

So for an example (with imagined non-factual numbers):

+15 Wpn Skill equals 3.5 weapon skill

CotNF will take your wpn skill from 350 to 353.5, not 365.

Hope that is easier to understand.
#10 Oct 09 2007 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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EonSprinter wrote:
shadowgryph wrote:
a certain amount of rating, in this case weapon skill, equates to a certain weapon skill.

Uh...

So Weapon skill equates to weapon skill, but weapon skill doesnt exactly translate into the same amount of weapon skill.

So you can see how this is confusing.

No, Weapon Skill Rating equates into Weapon Skill.

By about a 1/4 multiplier.
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#11 Oct 09 2007 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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You're just being dumb, Eon. Skill rating != skill.

You read it wrong. Smiley: wink
#12 Oct 09 2007 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I see. The symantics of it just don't make a lot of sense. Why would blizzard differentiate between a weapon skill rating and a weapon skill ___ (level? value?)

So with a weapon skill value of 350 you have a weapon skill rating of, roughly, 1400. Why is that figure important? Why not just have the tooltip say "increases your dagger skill by three." ?

Or even "Increases your dagger skill by 3.8 but we'll round that down to 3."

The reasoning behind this escapes me, and normally Blizzard's logic is unassailable (whoo 50% threat decrease on shadowstep!).
#13 Oct 09 2007 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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EonSprinter wrote:
I see. The symantics of it just don't make a lot of sense. Why would blizzard differentiate between a weapon skill rating and a weapon skill ___ (level? value?)

So with a weapon skill value of 350 you have a weapon skill rating of, roughly, 1400. Why is that figure important? Why not just have the tooltip say "increases your dagger skill by three." ?

Or even "Increases your dagger skill by 3.8 but we'll round that down to 3."

The reasoning behind this escapes me, and normally Blizzard's logic is unassailable (whoo 50% threat decrease on shadowstep!).

Because weapon skill rating scales differently than just static skill rating.

Otherwise my Maladath would have been the pimp **** for an OH even at 70 with 15 sword skill.

But they nerfed it to 9 skill rating, thus it was great for an OH at 60, decent at 65, and bad at 70.
#14 Oct 09 2007 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
It should also be noted, that if you have a decimal in the conversion from rating > skill, it is dropped completely. So 3.8 would = 3.
#15 Oct 09 2007 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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The least Blizz could do was round it up. They remind me of my Biochemistry professor...creating rounded numbers in the calculations and ignoring the .5=round up rule. That's just wrong!
#16 Oct 09 2007 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Okay I get it now. Sort of.

<casts a worried look at his Scholar status>
#17 Oct 09 2007 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
My thought is they differentiate between weapon skill rating and weapon skill so that they can change the formulas as you level. This causes the weapon to get weaker as you move away from its target range. For example, if at 70 it takes 4 weapon skill rating and 8 at 80 to equal one weapon skill, a plus 16 weapon skill rating dagger is worth more to the person at 70 than the person at 80. It forces the player to get equipment around his level and not hold on to outdated equipment. Kinda like how you get less crit/dodge/hit per agility point as you level. Just my 2 cents.
#18 Oct 09 2007 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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STill in the works, haven't forgotten about it. I'm trying to strike a balance between information and readability. I want everyone to be able to glean something from it, but to dumb it down so the people who don't care about the specifics will learn from it will remove a lot of information. I'm probably going to end up just having a TLDR section for each topic for those who just want the hard and fast rules, rather than the answer to "Why?"
#19 Oct 09 2007 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Hey Nooble, if you want graphics for it I can help. I've been designing signs since I was sixteen. Plus, I think it would help me understand things more if I was involved in something like that.
#20 Oct 09 2007 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent
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TheNazghul wrote:
My thought is they differentiate between weapon skill rating and weapon skill so that they can change the formulas as you level. This causes the weapon to get weaker as you move away from its target range. For example, if at 70 it takes 4 weapon skill rating and 8 at 80 to equal one weapon skill, a plus 16 weapon skill rating dagger is worth more to the person at 70 than the person at 80. It forces the player to get equipment around his level and not hold on to outdated equipment. Kinda like how you get less crit/dodge/hit per agility point as you level. Just my 2 cents.


That's exactly right. If they used the same formulas at 70 as they did at 60, we'd all be at max crit/hit/etc in greens, so there wouldn't be much point in trying to get better gear. By scaling rating with level, your gear becomes less effective as you level and forces you to get better stuff just to maintain your current level of effectiveness.
#21 Oct 11 2007 at 5:25 AM Rating: Decent
EonSprinter wrote:
How much will something with +15 weapon skill affect your hit rating and overall DPS?

Would a Claw of the Netherwing Flight be better than a Ced's Carver?


I am waiting for Nooble's (or somebody else's) full guide on that as well.
The short version is that increasing weapon skill is really doing you good when your weapon skill is less than enemy defense skill by more than 10 (i.e. when you fight lvl73 mobs). It adds much less if the difference is less than 10, and (if I remember right) almost nothing if there in no difference (i.e. against your level mobs).
So for farming the 2 daggers would probably be very similar...

Btw, talking about weapon skills - I noticed recently I was getting glancing blows at lvl 65 mobs when my weapon skill was very low. So it would seem glancing blows are still somehow tied to weapon skill.
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