So, in my new guild there are 2 other hunters.
Last night we did Moroes and since I was the only hunter there I was told I would be "kiting" the DPS warrior.
So I asked them "Why Kite when you can chain trap?"
Response- "We have other hunters in the guild that have tried it before and it hasn't worked, so you kite instead of chain trap"
My response- "Ok, so you want the guy out of the way, just let me do my thing and don't worry about him"
Response- "If we wipe because of you, you pay all our repair bills."
...
So, I chain trapped the DPS warrior throughout the entire encounter- but we wipe. Somebody tried to blame it on my chain trapping and I kindly pointed out it was the Shackle and not the trap, other raid members verified and the accuser closed his mouht and kept silent.
So, after we down Moroes I get whispers "Dude that was awesome! I was watching the whole fight", "Omg dude you sure you want to switch to your shammy for raiding?"
Score 1 for the Hunter community :)
I tried to explain that it is really a simple thing to do, just takes practice, they keep treating me like a god now though, I'm not complaining, it's a nice change ;)
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Chain Trap... OMG!!!Follow
Very nice Caldone. I have a similar story myself.
Way back in our beginning days of Kara, our guild had 3 groups for Kara. We had 3 main groups due to different time schedules. So we had 2 groups for 7pm, and one group for 10pm (for us late night people). I was part of the late night group and we weren't nearly as far along in progression as the other 2 groups. So for the most part we were learning Kara for the first time.
Everything started out as normal. I asked if I could trap mobs, and our guild leader suggested that I shouldn't in case of resists, or dispels, or wiping, or whatever excuse he could come up with. So for the most part I played DPS.
Then Moroes came along. Our group was a normal set up, we had two tanks, 3 healers, and the rest was just DPS. Our 2 priests were to keep 2 of the adds shackled, while we killed 2 of the other adds. As expected, one of them got loose while a priest was healing. Unfortunately his efforts to reshackle didn't work so well, and he ended up dying. Moroes had about 70% health left, and we still had the two adds up. So I took it upon myself to chain trap the add that just killed our priest. This was back in the day when I was still MM spec'd and not survival.
I lead the mob all over the place, moving him in a giant square formation around the room, constantly keeping him trapped the whole time.
After everything was said and done, my guild leader called me the master of CC, and said we couldn't have killed moroes without me. Ever since I have always been assigned as main CC, unless it's something I just can't Trap of course.
Oh but it gets better, much better.
In a later instance of Kara, we had Moroes down pact. I would CC one mob, and one of our shadow priests would CC the other. We have a system where I pull both mobs toward us so he can easily shackle one away from the other 2 adds, and I can trap mine close to us.
Well everything was going fine until his mob got loose. The mob just ran him over with a series of crits and our shadow priest went down. Knowing what would come next, I took it upon myself to Chain Trap 2 mobs. I did nothing but kite and lay down traps for the remainder of the fight. I kept them off the healers, and almost did no DPS to moroes at all. In the end though we survived. I was given the title of "God of CC" in our guild.
Granted we could have reset the fight at any time, but our guild leader trusted me to just chain trap 1 of the mobs, and it wasn't until Moroes was dead that he noticed I had 2 constantly trapped. The whole time the shadow priest kept cheering at me in tells. It was definately the most fun I've ever had CCing, and I was Survival Spec at that time, with my CC gear (2 piece beastlord) on.
Our biggest problem is trust with not only our guild mates but other people. Getting the reputation is difficult because people have grouped with so many bad hunters that just want to DPS and don't know what CC is other then having their pet off-tank something.
It's not difficult to do what we do, but for those that just refuse to use all of their abilities as hunters it makes us look bad =P
Edited, Oct 8th 2007 10:23am by Joobishwun
Way back in our beginning days of Kara, our guild had 3 groups for Kara. We had 3 main groups due to different time schedules. So we had 2 groups for 7pm, and one group for 10pm (for us late night people). I was part of the late night group and we weren't nearly as far along in progression as the other 2 groups. So for the most part we were learning Kara for the first time.
Everything started out as normal. I asked if I could trap mobs, and our guild leader suggested that I shouldn't in case of resists, or dispels, or wiping, or whatever excuse he could come up with. So for the most part I played DPS.
Then Moroes came along. Our group was a normal set up, we had two tanks, 3 healers, and the rest was just DPS. Our 2 priests were to keep 2 of the adds shackled, while we killed 2 of the other adds. As expected, one of them got loose while a priest was healing. Unfortunately his efforts to reshackle didn't work so well, and he ended up dying. Moroes had about 70% health left, and we still had the two adds up. So I took it upon myself to chain trap the add that just killed our priest. This was back in the day when I was still MM spec'd and not survival.
I lead the mob all over the place, moving him in a giant square formation around the room, constantly keeping him trapped the whole time.
After everything was said and done, my guild leader called me the master of CC, and said we couldn't have killed moroes without me. Ever since I have always been assigned as main CC, unless it's something I just can't Trap of course.
Oh but it gets better, much better.
In a later instance of Kara, we had Moroes down pact. I would CC one mob, and one of our shadow priests would CC the other. We have a system where I pull both mobs toward us so he can easily shackle one away from the other 2 adds, and I can trap mine close to us.
Well everything was going fine until his mob got loose. The mob just ran him over with a series of crits and our shadow priest went down. Knowing what would come next, I took it upon myself to Chain Trap 2 mobs. I did nothing but kite and lay down traps for the remainder of the fight. I kept them off the healers, and almost did no DPS to moroes at all. In the end though we survived. I was given the title of "God of CC" in our guild.
Granted we could have reset the fight at any time, but our guild leader trusted me to just chain trap 1 of the mobs, and it wasn't until Moroes was dead that he noticed I had 2 constantly trapped. The whole time the shadow priest kept cheering at me in tells. It was definately the most fun I've ever had CCing, and I was Survival Spec at that time, with my CC gear (2 piece beastlord) on.
Our biggest problem is trust with not only our guild mates but other people. Getting the reputation is difficult because people have grouped with so many bad hunters that just want to DPS and don't know what CC is other then having their pet off-tank something.
It's not difficult to do what we do, but for those that just refuse to use all of their abilities as hunters it makes us look bad =P
Edited, Oct 8th 2007 10:23am by Joobishwun
Quote:
Our biggest problem is trust with not only our guild mates but other people. Getting the reputation is difficult because people have grouped with so many bad hunters that just want to DPS and don't know what CC is other then having their pet off-tank something.
Yeah no kidding.
The other Hunters are BM specced and do good, but the BM hunter "was" on top of the DPS charts until last night :) They were pretty amazed I could chain trap (they were watching me run around like an idiot) and tops the DPS charts for the fight. The other hunter was even whispering me and saying "Nice DPS there". That made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside :)
However, last night one of the priests died and the other hunter picked up the loose shackle (we had 2 shackles and 1 chain trap (we never kill 2 adds, just the Shadow Priest)), and was watching me and learned from it :)
Not anywhere near the scale of a Moroes fight, but since the topic is chain trapping...
I run 5-mans with pretty much the same tank. I don't consider it a PUG as long as he and I are running together because we've been doing it long enough now that we both know what to expect.
Except...
He still doesn't have a lot of faith in Hunter traps. In a party with me, a Mage, and a Warlock, for example, he'll go after the Seduce target first (after main target and any strays are handled), then Frost Trap, then Sheep. I don't normally have a ton of threat on the mob I'm trapping...just enough to get it where I need it without having it peel off and go for the healer. Nevertheless, sometimes I'll get a crit on the pull shot and it takes more than a smack from the tank to break the trap and put it on him. I've lost count of how many times the tank has broken my trap (purposely as it was the next one on the kill order) only to have the mob take a few steps towards me straight into another trap...
And by the time that mob is down the mob that was supposed to be sheeped is in another trap because the mage forgot about it and it had turned on the healer...
I got my Beast Lord Helm on my first full run through Mechanar. Since then, despite numerous Kalithresh kills, a few Warp Splinter kills, and a few Kargath Bladefist kills, I've yet to acquire a second piece. I'll keep at it...I've still got a number of level 70 non-heroics to run before I jump into Heroics full time. Even with just a 2 second overlap between trap duration and trap cooldown, it's pretty amazing how much we can do.
I run 5-mans with pretty much the same tank. I don't consider it a PUG as long as he and I are running together because we've been doing it long enough now that we both know what to expect.
Except...
He still doesn't have a lot of faith in Hunter traps. In a party with me, a Mage, and a Warlock, for example, he'll go after the Seduce target first (after main target and any strays are handled), then Frost Trap, then Sheep. I don't normally have a ton of threat on the mob I'm trapping...just enough to get it where I need it without having it peel off and go for the healer. Nevertheless, sometimes I'll get a crit on the pull shot and it takes more than a smack from the tank to break the trap and put it on him. I've lost count of how many times the tank has broken my trap (purposely as it was the next one on the kill order) only to have the mob take a few steps towards me straight into another trap...
And by the time that mob is down the mob that was supposed to be sheeped is in another trap because the mage forgot about it and it had turned on the healer...
I got my Beast Lord Helm on my first full run through Mechanar. Since then, despite numerous Kalithresh kills, a few Warp Splinter kills, and a few Kargath Bladefist kills, I've yet to acquire a second piece. I'll keep at it...I've still got a number of level 70 non-heroics to run before I jump into Heroics full time. Even with just a 2 second overlap between trap duration and trap cooldown, it's pretty amazing how much we can do.
I tried this a while back, and while I could sucessfully chain trap the Moroses add, my DPS went in the toilet because I was holding back so I wouldnt need to FD (and therefore wipe aggro on my trap target)
I later found out one thing, that may be glaringly obvious to the rest of you, but I got up to 70 and into Kara without ever knowing it, and so I post it in the hopes that it's useful to somebody.
Distracting Shot doesn't break traps.
Sadly I haven't been able to try trapping in Moroses again since though.
I later found out one thing, that may be glaringly obvious to the rest of you, but I got up to 70 and into Kara without ever knowing it, and so I post it in the hopes that it's useful to somebody.
Distracting Shot doesn't break traps.
Sadly I haven't been able to try trapping in Moroses again since though.
Quote:
Distracting Shot doesn't break traps.
o_O Thats news to me...
YAY FOR Raisins!!
Oh, sorry "Rasen" :)
Quote:
Distracting Shot doesn't break traps.
News to me as well, thanks for the tip. that is gonna be useful in some situations.
and Rate up for you. ;p
Edited, Oct 8th 2007 7:19pm by Elustriel
Only problem would be shooting it, then canceling your auto shot fast enough >.<
Quote:
Distracting Shot doesn't break traps.
Taking this a step further you can also Misdirect + Distracting Shot on a frozen mob to gain some hate for your tank. I've always used Distracting Shot for the mobs I trap, because when it breaks they love to go straight for the healers. Sure a few shots might pull them off, but you don't exactly want it running toward them to begin with.
Lurker Story:
I'm not sure if any of you know the Lurker fight in SSC, but that definately put my CC timing skills to the test. For those who don't know, the fight is pretty much like the Ragnaros fight in MC. Ranged DPS can go all out, while the tank is beat on constantly. Lurker will submerge much like Rag does, and then adds will spawn.
There's roughly 9 adds, 2 for each small island you can stand on, and 3 in the middle. Our strategy is to constantly keep the 3 in the middle sheeped, while we kill the remaining 6 on their respective islands. Now the reason we sheep the adds in the middle is so they do not respawn everytime Lurker submerges. For those who know the fight, the adds in the middle hit very very hard, and most groups have a hard enough time killing everything without worrying about what's in the middle and when Lurker will pop back up.
Well during this particular instance, I was already hard pressed. The normal way that I do Lurker is to trap one mob that spawns on my island, giving us time to kill the other. Then when it's down we kill the frozen guy. We usually have 3 hunters that do this on their respective islands, and we've had little to no problems successfully pulling this off.
Well it just so happens that one of our hunters lagged during the phase when Lurker pops out of the water. He does a 360 degree spout, and if it hits you, will send you flying backwards doing roughly 9-10K damage, about 3-3.5K per hit and hits you a total of 3 times. Needless to say we lost our hunter for that island. So much to my dismay, I now had to set a trap on my island, and run over to his island to help trap his mob and DPS the two islands down.
This wasn't the problem, as I'm quite used to doing this when we're short a hunter. The problem came later in the fight, when we had lurker around 50%, and one of our mages just got smashed by one of the adds in the middle. He forgot to watch his sheep and sure enough it got loose and pretty much 2-shotted the mage. We usually have a warrior keeping aggro on the adds in case they do break early, but this particular one hated the mage so much it went to him first. Afterward it went to the tank who had the highest aggro on it and he was tanking it until we could get it under control.
As soon as I heard that a mage was down, without even thinking, I targeted the mob in the middle, called out in vent that I had the mob and to stop attacking it. The warrior stopped attacking, I used a Wyvern Sting and put it to sleep. Then I ran up, placed a trap, and backed away again, waiting for the Wyvern Sting timer to come up. The moment the sleep affect disappeared I shot off a Scorpid Sting, the Wyvern Sting dot came up, but was soon overwritten by the Scorpid Sting and did no damage to the now trapped mob. The rest of the fight I was seen jumping between islands, DPSing adds, and constantly keeping this thing trapped in the middle. We managed to down Lurker and had only lost maybe 3 people.
Looking back, it wasn't to hard to time the shots, and anyone can do it, but I was definately praised for it. My guild has even reworked the CC system because of my abilities to CC mobs. If I'm not primary CC I'm definately the next backup for it. Which I prefer, cause in all honesty I'm a CCer not a DPSer =P And I personally don't mind if I don't top the charts, as long as everyone is alive in the end.
Caldone the Shady wrote:
Only problem would be shooting it, then canceling your auto shot fast enough >.<
I got a macro that does distracting shot and stops attack. I use it to tag the mobs I am about to trap.
Quote:
I got a macro that does distracting shot and stops attack. I use it to tag the mobs I am about to trap.
Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I was told that Distracting shot does a solid 600 aggro. Therefore you would have better luck firing off an arcane or steady or multi, or all three like me :) in order to have the massive amount of aggro it requres you to have while trapping through the entire Moroes fight without him going to a healer.
I am pretty certain it is around 800 threat
Yeah, I can dump more aggro than that per shot :)
Whats chain trap?
Put down first trap, run, put down another and so on?
Put down first trap, run, put down another and so on?
Look up tkasomething.com its were I learned it from :)
Chain-trapping is the art of keeping a mob trapped indefinitely. So, let's assume a normal 30-second timer as someone who is not survival specced (I, myself AM survival, but just for the sake of the argument).
-30 seconds before pull, you lay down a trap.
-Pull
-Mob hits trap: you now have 20 seconds of trap.
-Your cooldown is up, so you lay another trap just outside of the range of the mob.
-As soon as your trap breaks, the mob hits the second trap. Rinse and repeat.
It works better with reduced cooldowns, etc... but it's really pretty easy to do as long as your tank isn't rushing and you've got time to set up the pull :)
On a side note, I've been known to CC for the Moroes fight as well... and last night in Slabs you'd think I was some kind of a hero or something. I had one mob trapped the entire time, and often had to pick up a second when things went awry. It can sometimes be JUST enough to save your party's lives!
-30 seconds before pull, you lay down a trap.
-Pull
-Mob hits trap: you now have 20 seconds of trap.
-Your cooldown is up, so you lay another trap just outside of the range of the mob.
-As soon as your trap breaks, the mob hits the second trap. Rinse and repeat.
It works better with reduced cooldowns, etc... but it's really pretty easy to do as long as your tank isn't rushing and you've got time to set up the pull :)
On a side note, I've been known to CC for the Moroes fight as well... and last night in Slabs you'd think I was some kind of a hero or something. I had one mob trapped the entire time, and often had to pick up a second when things went awry. It can sometimes be JUST enough to save your party's lives!
this should be a very good reason for you to start crying.
it means that the other hunters in their guild cant chaintrap.
And at lvl 70 i expect any moron to be able to keep a mob trapped for a longer period of time.
eit, seriously how hard is it to drop a trap well before the pull, shoot 1 arcane to trap, run to the other side of the room, drop a trap and repeat?
Edited, Oct 9th 2007 9:37am by Aethien
it means that the other hunters in their guild cant chaintrap.
And at lvl 70 i expect any moron to be able to keep a mob trapped for a longer period of time.
eit, seriously how hard is it to drop a trap well before the pull, shoot 1 arcane to trap, run to the other side of the room, drop a trap and repeat?
Edited, Oct 9th 2007 9:37am by Aethien
11 posts
Elustriel wrote
Mind posting the wording for the macro. I'd love to try that one.
Edited, Oct 9th 2007 7:06am by Zulaar
Quote:
I got a macro that does distracting shot and stops attack. I use it to tag the mobs I am about to trap.
Mind posting the wording for the macro. I'd love to try that one.
Edited, Oct 9th 2007 7:06am by Zulaar
Caldone the Shady wrote:
Quote:
I got a macro that does distracting shot and stops attack. I use it to tag the mobs I am about to trap.
Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I was told that Distracting shot does a solid 600 aggro. Therefore you would have better luck firing off an arcane or steady or multi, or all three like me :) in order to have the massive amount of aggro it requres you to have while trapping through the entire Moroes fight without him going to a healer.
If you don't want a macro for everything just fire the distracting shot while you are running around. You then have plenty of time to disable your autoshot.
As for the aggro. While trapped healers do not build up hate on the trapped mob. Only during the time when the mob is free, hate builds up. So a single shot should last for at least 3-4 traps before healing builds to much hate. 1 distracting shot after a FD is more than enough and another distracting shot every 3-4 traps will also be sufficient.
As for the amount of hate. At level 60 rank 6 did 600 hate. I believe rank 7 (level 69) adds 900 hate. I'm sure it was included in Alla's spell list some months back but at the moment I can neither find it on wowwiki nor here.
Quote:
this should be a very good reason for you to start crying.
it means that the other hunters in their guild cant chaintrap.
And at lvl 70 i expect any moron to be able to keep a mob trapped for a longer period of time.
eit, seriously how hard is it to drop a trap well before the pull, shoot 1 arcane to trap, run to the other side of the room, drop a trap and repeat?
it means that the other hunters in their guild cant chaintrap.
And at lvl 70 i expect any moron to be able to keep a mob trapped for a longer period of time.
eit, seriously how hard is it to drop a trap well before the pull, shoot 1 arcane to trap, run to the other side of the room, drop a trap and repeat?
Agreed - I am BM spec with no Beast Lord bonus and I was able to keep a Moroes add trapped with little difficulty. That is a fun fight actually.
I do have to give him props, I ran Maiden last night with him and was running SWStats instead of DMGMeter, and he was about 4th on the list (Under Myself, an epicly geared Mage with 1100+ Spell Damage, and a Lock), and not doing too bad of damage. Thing about chain trapping is easy, but takes practice, andif your group/guild doesn't spend the patient in runs to let you get the hang of it, then you'll never learn correctly, until I came along they didn't have too much faith in Chain Trapping ;)
Well, my 'chain trapping' experience is not entirely chain-trapping but a variant I used with kiting to kill a nasty elite that took down my pet.
I can't remember the name of the elite in the ruins to the south of Zangarmarsh. I had taken out the druids guarding the place with no fuss and ran across the guy in the great hall there. Well, I think I can take him so I send Morris in with a heal (normal operating) and start in on him. Well, my shots aren't doing the kind of damage I want to see and he had a ton of health. By the time he's down to 30%, Morris, heals on 100% of the time finally drops dead, the heals couldn't keep up with the magic damage (need an anti-magic resistance pet!)
So, the guy goes after me. I have a freeze trap in front of me as always and he freezes. So I run to the other corner of the room, drop another freeze trap and setup with aimed, blast him, hit Silence, Arcane and Multi. He makes it up to me, freezes, I run to the opposite corner, drop freeze trap, setup aimed... rinse, wash and repeat. 6 traps later he's dead an never hit me with anything.
Morris had to die to teach me this little kite + chain-trap trick while still dishing out pretty good damage. Hard on the mana but it worked okay. I guess some things have to be learned by just figuring out what works. Something about necessity being the mother of... ^_^
I can't remember the name of the elite in the ruins to the south of Zangarmarsh. I had taken out the druids guarding the place with no fuss and ran across the guy in the great hall there. Well, I think I can take him so I send Morris in with a heal (normal operating) and start in on him. Well, my shots aren't doing the kind of damage I want to see and he had a ton of health. By the time he's down to 30%, Morris, heals on 100% of the time finally drops dead, the heals couldn't keep up with the magic damage (need an anti-magic resistance pet!)
So, the guy goes after me. I have a freeze trap in front of me as always and he freezes. So I run to the other corner of the room, drop another freeze trap and setup with aimed, blast him, hit Silence, Arcane and Multi. He makes it up to me, freezes, I run to the opposite corner, drop freeze trap, setup aimed... rinse, wash and repeat. 6 traps later he's dead an never hit me with anything.
Morris had to die to teach me this little kite + chain-trap trick while still dishing out pretty good damage. Hard on the mana but it worked okay. I guess some things have to be learned by just figuring out what works. Something about necessity being the mother of... ^_^
#23REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 10 2007 at 3:56 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Whats that Smell? *sniff sniff* Bull ****.
Caldone the Shady wrote:
Yeah, I can dump more aggro than that per shot :)
Not without breaking a trap you can't :]
Quote:
Not without breaking a trap you can't :]
True, but I am talking about before the trap or in-between traps :)
Last night I was on Moroes again and occasionally I have problems with trap breaking (like normal) but then going to a healer ( not normal) I used Distracting shot will Moroes was Vanished, and never lost him at all ;)
Caldone the Shady wrote:
Quote:
Not without breaking a trap you can't :]
True, but I am talking about before the trap or in-between traps :)
Last night I was on Moroes again and occasionally I have problems with trap breaking (like normal) but then going to a healer ( not normal) I used Distracting shot will Moroes was Vanished, and never lost him at all ;)
I hear you, but it doesn't invalidate that using Distracting while trapped is a nice chunk of bonus threat that won't break your traps. ;P
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