Started a Human Warlock yesterday, finally decided that I liked the look of Human more and also wanted to go with the Alliance (despite rumors of more maturity on the Horde.)
However at lvl10 I was in SW asking a few questions and one guy just kept on and on how Undead was so far better than Human as Warlock it wasn't even funny. Now granted I understand the human racial of Rep bonus doesn't help when you don't really get mounts from the factions, and also that the Undead racial is good in PvP. However is it that far above a Human? I mean I like human, I'm willing to put up with a little less power because I feel it fits the "character" more to be human, but I don't want to look back at 60-70 and regret not being Horde/Undead.
I'm only lvl 10, do I wipe this toon and start over as Undead? I know only I can ultimately decide, but I'm looking for a few opinions.
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are UD locks that much better than Human?Follow
Comes down to the skill of the player and your enjoyment of the game.
The racials don't matter that much at all. Yes, Will of the Forsaken is great for PvP and Cannibalise for soloing (though you shouldn't really need it if you play right), but you're playing to enjoy (I assume!) and if you think a human 'lock suits you better than a UD one, go with it.
So speaks a UD 'lock.
The racials don't matter that much at all. Yes, Will of the Forsaken is great for PvP and Cannibalise for soloing (though you shouldn't really need it if you play right), but you're playing to enjoy (I assume!) and if you think a human 'lock suits you better than a UD one, go with it.
So speaks a UD 'lock.
for pvp they have a much better advantage. but as ice said, it's down to player skill. though if you take 2 equally skilled warlocks, the undead or orc or gnome or bloodelf would win. human's are the worst choice for locks racial ways
thanks for the advice everyone, keep it coming if anyone else has anyhing to add. I'm probably gonna reroll it. Even though I'm concentrating on PvE I will probably do some BG later on and don't wanna be gimped.
Also, if the big advantage is WotF I don't see (probably stupid to say) how that is a huge advantage? It only lasts 5 seconds so once you use it to break out of fear once, you have to wait 3 minutes to do it again. Won't you just get feared/stunned again in that time frame? Sorry if that sounds dumb, I'm just trying to understand how good it is.
Humans have the BEST racial at L70. It's the rep gain bonus. don't let anyone fool you about it. You need reputation, and a human will help you get it.
WoTF is an EXTRA fear break, which is the most important part. Fear lasts 10 seconds, then 5, then 2, then you're immune if they try to spam it too fast on you.
WotF, Trinket, 2 sec of fear vs. Trinket, 5 sec, 2 sec. Pretty obvious who has the advantage there. Will it always save your ***? No. But it's a huge tactical advantage. Also, some mobs fear. WotF = extra DPS time.
WotF, Trinket, 2 sec of fear vs. Trinket, 5 sec, 2 sec. Pretty obvious who has the advantage there. Will it always save your ***? No. But it's a huge tactical advantage. Also, some mobs fear. WotF = extra DPS time.
but mike. once you hit 999/1000 with the rep groups you need it becomes useless :P also it only saves you about 2 hours of grinding in the end. personnally I'd prefer to have escape artist. at least it's useful :P
Pre-paranoia, I love the human racial "perception" - any lock who thinks it's worthless needs to L2P. Seriously - if you're concentrating, it's all the edge you need to dominate rogues, especially because most of them think they can sneak closer to you than they actually can (before you see them).
You *will* need to rep grind, and being human saves hours out of your life.
In a few circumstances, I would prefer UD - if you plan on bging for enormous amounts of time (post 50's), or in a high-pop pvp server.
Still, I chose being human (originally) for a reason similar to yours, and I haven't yet regretted it.
You *will* need to rep grind, and being human saves hours out of your life.
In a few circumstances, I would prefer UD - if you plan on bging for enormous amounts of time (post 50's), or in a high-pop pvp server.
Still, I chose being human (originally) for a reason similar to yours, and I haven't yet regretted it.
A friend of mine has a human lock, the rep bonus is quite handy, but not the end-all choice-maker.
I love my undead lock for 2 reasons. Canibalize can be used while in combat and can heal about 1/3-1/2 of your hp, which can be handy while fearing your opponents. And, of course, as the others stated "Will of The Forsaken" gives you a fear-breaker with a decent cooldown.
Plus, I am not on a RP server, but it made sense to me for an undead to be a warlock because they are dark, mysterious, and being able to eat your opponents is just fun.
Just my 2 pesos.
I love my undead lock for 2 reasons. Canibalize can be used while in combat and can heal about 1/3-1/2 of your hp, which can be handy while fearing your opponents. And, of course, as the others stated "Will of The Forsaken" gives you a fear-breaker with a decent cooldown.
Plus, I am not on a RP server, but it made sense to me for an undead to be a warlock because they are dark, mysterious, and being able to eat your opponents is just fun.
Just my 2 pesos.
perception is only useful if you SEE a rogue stealth. in the end 90% of the time you don't see the rogue stealth and so you don't know it's near by, so regardless they still get you before you see them. perception is a dueling ability
I've got to agree with Jenova on this. I've had a good look at the racials and I still think the UD ones will serve you better long term.
But I repeat, go with what you LIKE, because at the end of the day you're supposed to be having fun.
But I repeat, go with what you LIKE, because at the end of the day you're supposed to be having fun.
Perception is great in arena, I've been told.
But WotF is really good. A human vs undead lock duel will be a bit in the ud's favor because he can click out of two fears (or click out of one and have a better trinket loaded). A human can still win the encounter, but all other things being equal, the ud will have the edge.
But you won't always be fighting locks. Escape artist is killer against opponents who root you.
Don't listen to anyone saying race x is the "best." This isn't true! The differences due to racials are very slight.
Remember, this is WoW and not Final Fantasy. You can be successful with any race/class combo in wow. Just have fun, be what you want, and stop fretting about whether or not you've picked the most uberest. The most uberest in wow is the player w/ the most skill (and to some extent, good gear).
Jenova - diplomacy stops working after 999 rep points w/ any given faction? I never knew that - if that's true, that stinks (glad I'm Gnome).
Edited, Oct 6th 2007 5:36am by IponemaGirl
But WotF is really good. A human vs undead lock duel will be a bit in the ud's favor because he can click out of two fears (or click out of one and have a better trinket loaded). A human can still win the encounter, but all other things being equal, the ud will have the edge.
But you won't always be fighting locks. Escape artist is killer against opponents who root you.
Don't listen to anyone saying race x is the "best." This isn't true! The differences due to racials are very slight.
Remember, this is WoW and not Final Fantasy. You can be successful with any race/class combo in wow. Just have fun, be what you want, and stop fretting about whether or not you've picked the most uberest. The most uberest in wow is the player w/ the most skill (and to some extent, good gear).
Jenova - diplomacy stops working after 999 rep points w/ any given faction? I never knew that - if that's true, that stinks (glad I'm Gnome).
Edited, Oct 6th 2007 5:36am by IponemaGirl
IponemaGirl wrote:
The most uberest in wow is the player w/ the most skill (and to some extent, good gear).
And with enough free time to play....
Really? 90% of the time? I'd have to disagree.
Perception comes in handy in arena - you know the rogue will stealth sometime soon, and will be in a "limited area". This also gives you the opportunity to create set a single dot (which will prevent stealth until CoS, dot expires, or is removed).
Also, it's useful during regular BG if you're smart enough to know when to use it (ie - tracking rogues running mid-field; emergency vanishes; around flags; when you see a clothie sitting on the ground drinking*).
*Yes, this does happen (mainly pre-60's in warsong; alterac).
Perception is less useful when you get paranoia (as stated above), but is still a worthwhile if you aren't using felpuppy (demo/vw destro).
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For general pvp, I'd say that gnomes (escape artist) is probably the most useful, followed by wotf, and then perception - but this is only my opinion. Each trait is equally useful if used in the right situation: ie, it's more about play-style.
Perception comes in handy in arena - you know the rogue will stealth sometime soon, and will be in a "limited area". This also gives you the opportunity to create set a single dot (which will prevent stealth until CoS, dot expires, or is removed).
Also, it's useful during regular BG if you're smart enough to know when to use it (ie - tracking rogues running mid-field; emergency vanishes; around flags; when you see a clothie sitting on the ground drinking*).
*Yes, this does happen (mainly pre-60's in warsong; alterac).
Perception is less useful when you get paranoia (as stated above), but is still a worthwhile if you aren't using felpuppy (demo/vw destro).
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For general pvp, I'd say that gnomes (escape artist) is probably the most useful, followed by wotf, and then perception - but this is only my opinion. Each trait is equally useful if used in the right situation: ie, it's more about play-style.
ok. not including arena, seeing as most pvp is done outside arena you won't know if there's a rogue there. so outside area it's 90% useless. i'll agree that in arena it's great for finding rogues. but any rogue/druid with even the slightest of brains will just stay back and hide for the 20 seconds of so that their enemycastbar shows you having perception up. in the end it gets wasted most the time. personnaly I'd prefer the orc stun resist or gnome escape artist. stuns and slowing/snaze effects are the joint top killer abilities versus warlocks.
How many people extolling the uses of Perception are actually on PvP servers?
For perception to be useful you have to KNOW that there is a stealther around. When I'm farming and some rogue comes up behind me the @#%^er can hit me with deadly throw and stealth up before I see him. Mages invis/blink out from behind walls. Warriors charge down from the sky. Do you think I'm exaggerating? I play on Tichondrius and there is no tougher PvP server in WoW. Sure, when you SEE a rogue go into stealth perception is OMGWTFPWN but where I come from farming is about as safe as wearing a yarmulka on the streets of Iran.
A rogue sees you first and the first time you see him will be when he cheap shots you. I watched a hunter sit shadow melded on my corpse for 10 minutes just trying to get me back for ganking him while I was farming. When I got to 70 I had almost a thousand HKs from world PvP (alright, probably closer to like 500, but still). If you are playing against people who LOVE world PvP kills, they aren't going to run across your screen out of stealth, stealth up, then walk straight at you.
For a more detailed example,
The Ganking Challenge
Show me another server so obsessed with killing each other that people have started putting out bounties on their OWN faction as well as the opposing one.
Edited, Oct 6th 2007 11:47am by Loki
For perception to be useful you have to KNOW that there is a stealther around. When I'm farming and some rogue comes up behind me the @#%^er can hit me with deadly throw and stealth up before I see him. Mages invis/blink out from behind walls. Warriors charge down from the sky. Do you think I'm exaggerating? I play on Tichondrius and there is no tougher PvP server in WoW. Sure, when you SEE a rogue go into stealth perception is OMGWTFPWN but where I come from farming is about as safe as wearing a yarmulka on the streets of Iran.
A rogue sees you first and the first time you see him will be when he cheap shots you. I watched a hunter sit shadow melded on my corpse for 10 minutes just trying to get me back for ganking him while I was farming. When I got to 70 I had almost a thousand HKs from world PvP (alright, probably closer to like 500, but still). If you are playing against people who LOVE world PvP kills, they aren't going to run across your screen out of stealth, stealth up, then walk straight at you.
For a more detailed example,
The Ganking Challenge
Show me another server so obsessed with killing each other that people have started putting out bounties on their OWN faction as well as the opposing one.
Edited, Oct 6th 2007 11:47am by Loki
Loki the Sly wrote:
Do you think I'm exaggerating? I play on Tichondrius and there is no tougher PvP server in WoW.
Bwa-ha-ha-ha!!!
Dude, Illidan is the most hardcore PvP server. The top Arena group in our battle group for 5v5, 3v3, and 2v2 is Illidan groups... and the top player of Honor Kills and Killing Blows with extremely low death was of Illidan.
Illidan is where the funeral incident happened. Dude, I've played for like a month and a half and I know how to fight every class in a duel, secrets to beating classes that aren't obvious, how to rock instance groups, how to kill multiple higher level Alliance at once, how to kill SKULL Allys at fully restored, and how to get away from some extremely bored 70 with too much time on their hands to corpse camp me.
In 1 and 1/2 months. And I'm an extremely casual gamer. I play like... maybe 3 days a week, average of 2 hours a day? Tell me how I got this experience in such a short amount of time. Tell me how I got 150 gold before 40 (I just turned 39 a couple of days ago). And no, the only time I "ninjaed" something was a Meteor Shard... because I wanted a Firestone melee toy and forgot there was a Rogue in the group. Which I apologized multiple times for.
So how can someone pick up on the learning curve so fast?
The answer, dear Watson, is Illidan.
(Oh, and just to clarify, I did play more during 1-25-ish levels. After SFK, things got real boring, real fast.)
Edited, Oct 7th 2007 7:05pm by Ignuus
IponemaGirl wrote:
Jenova - diplomacy stops working after 999 rep points w/ any given faction? I never knew that - if that's true, that stinks (glad I'm Gnome).
No, it stops when you hit 999/1000 EXALTED :P
Just had to clear that up!
yeah, that's what i mean when i say 999 :P
Perception is equitable to the other warlock-friendly racials - depending on your play-style. If it doesn't fit/work for you - don't choose it; just because you can't use it more than 10% of the time, doesn't mean it isn't invaluable to other locks (like me).
Maybe it's just easier for me to *look around* while grinding - when a rogue can see you, you can see the rogue; they'll immediately stealth. Even with sprint, you have a general direction they are heading from, and a limitedly variable movement speed.
Even if you *don't* notice the rogue, once you put some distance between yourself and the rogue, they can easily pop CoS, then vanish - perception gives you that 1/2 second window to pop iHoT (assuming you only need CoE d/c + Sprint).
And I'm on a world-pvp server, and although I have *limited* honor kills (only 2+ k atm?), at least a third is from world pvp.
Maybe it's just easier for me to *look around* while grinding - when a rogue can see you, you can see the rogue; they'll immediately stealth. Even with sprint, you have a general direction they are heading from, and a limitedly variable movement speed.
Even if you *don't* notice the rogue, once you put some distance between yourself and the rogue, they can easily pop CoS, then vanish - perception gives you that 1/2 second window to pop iHoT (assuming you only need CoE d/c + Sprint).
And I'm on a world-pvp server, and although I have *limited* honor kills (only 2+ k atm?), at least a third is from world pvp.
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