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#1 Oct 03 2007 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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So Sunday night I dinged 70 after a rather lengthy annoying ordeal (Arundel=poor as sh*t). Tuesday night I ran part of kara for the first time. Being as this was my first character and I had never done any raiding before it was...and experience. In light of that, I had some comments, questions, etc.

First and most importantly, a HUGE thank you to everyone on these boards for the help you gave me. I started reading at 58 and cannot overestimate how awesome it is. I had a cluster@#%^ spec, no gear, and no clue. I have special thanks to:

Nooblestick: You are like the Godfather (thats right The @#%^ing Godfather) of these boards.
Theo: On those threads that are full of important info that nonetheless became painfully boring, I could always look forward to a bit of brutal enjoyment and useful info
Demea: My build is nearly cookie cutter from your guide. You made me suck so much less and that makes you awesome

Secondly, now that the most important stuff is out of the way, I have a bunch of question about raiding (because no good plan survives first contact with the enemy).

1.) I tried to use the 3SnD/5SnD/5R attack pattern when possible, but all the bosses where immune to rupture. What should I be using as a finisher?
2.) I didn't have posions last night, but what one should I use for raiding?

Lastly, I'll put my armory up here. If nothing else, someone will get a great laugh out of it.

Linky

Notes on this:
1.) When I started the raid last night, there were the following changes:
MH = Ceremonial Warmaul Blood-blade
OH = The Stalker's Fangs
Feet = Spymistress's Boots

Again guys, you all rock!

Edited, Oct 5th 2007 2:08am by ArundelvalEstar
#2 Oct 03 2007 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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If rupture wont work, use expose armor.

You want instant mh and deadly oh.

Deadly has higher dps but once it's stacked to the limit, it can't do anything more - that's why it's better to have instant on your MH.
#3 Oct 03 2007 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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I don't want to use expose armor in raids right? Doesn't that ***** up the tanks?
#4 Oct 03 2007 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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ArundelvalEstar wrote:
I don't want to use expose armor in raids right? Doesn't that ***** up the tanks?


Yes, yes it does, but only warriors if i'm not mistaken. Im the last person to suggest anything about raids, but heres my 2c:

If...
poisonable- envenom
no warrior- EA
not immune- rupture
using CPs as filler- SnD

That's just my take. I could be wrong, but thats what I would do.
#5 Oct 03 2007 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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EonSprinter wrote:
If rupture wont work, use expose armor.

You want instant mh and deadly oh.

Deadly has higher dps but once it's stacked to the limit, it can't do anything more - that's why it's better to have instant on your MH.


o.O

Expose armor = no no with warrior tanks, which is the norm. And i usually run with deadly MH and instant OH. I also seem to remember that doing more long term DPS on the damage calculator.

In kara on the rupture immune mobs (not all mobs are rupture immune just so you know) i use evis as my CP dump. SnD is priority though, need that up at all times.
#6 Oct 03 2007 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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In Kara Evis on non bleedable mob's to dump extra cp's between your SnD.

Deadly MH/Instant OH, unless you have a Shaman with WF in your group, then you leave your MH empty and Deadly OH.
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#7 Oct 03 2007 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I failed. Had a minor brain asplosion. Forgive.
#8 Oct 03 2007 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
For some reaon I tried deadly poisons vii and vi and they don't seem to be able to stack seperately. all the vi went straight into the vii collum. really weird as I'd love to stack 2 types of deadly on a target.

in raids. I'd use tranc or instant main hand deadly off hand. that means you don't have to worry about mutilate if you can apply shiv as necessary. After all you don't use ss much. Your main and off hand weapons are roughly equal speed, and most importantly the extra attacks for your main hand are limited to 2 moves. (outside of opener) evis and rupture.
#9 Oct 03 2007 at 8:26 PM Rating: Good
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1,606 posts
1) Use evis to dump points (as already stated). If you have all druids tanking, EA isn't a bad choice. They will appreciate it as it will allow them to generate more threat (their threat is based largely on damage). Don't use EA with a warrior tank, and if you have a warrior in the group (even if he's not tanking) generally he will be responsible for sundering.

2) Always carry a stack of max rank deadly and instant poison with you. There will also be some very limited instances where you many want mind numbing (not in kara though IIRC). For your particular gear and spec, you either want deadly poison on your main hand and instant offhand, or if you have a shammy... windfury main hand with DP offhand. What Eon said is correct about DP... you waste charges once you have a full stack. However, with a 1.8 speed offhand and a relatively low hit rating, you would probably have problems maintaining a full stack with it on just the offhand. IMHO what I listed would be a better combination for you until you gear up a bit (more hit) and get a faster offhand.

In all honesty, you have reasonably good gear for just hitting 70. However, I will say that you need to do a bit of work to make yourself more raid viable. Check out the shadow panther link in my sig. It lists the vast majority of rogue gear in spread sheet format for easy comparison. There are many things that you will be able to replace easily just by doing a quest or 2! Some general tips:

1) Use at least green quality gems. In general they cost the same as the 2g vendor gems. I have adamantite ore prospected all the time for me (to get blue gems). I know how many green gems are created. Find a good JC, and I guarantee that he'll sell you cut greens for 2g each!

2) Basic enchants are a must! I'm sure you are going to be working towards getting the exalted scryer/aldor shoulder enchant... and getting the cen exp helm enchant... but past that... you really need to enchant your gear to raid. The basics: at least have 24ap to bracers and 26ap to gloves! 12agi to cloak is pretty cheap (but your cloak isn't that great anyway lol). Round your enchants off with an armor patch on the legs (and for god sakes get different legs!). BTW... both your shoulders and helm are pretty much the best blues you are going to get in BC... they are worthy of enchants... and every upgrade past them is... what I'm saying is: work on rep so you have the option to buy them!

3) Strength is not for you! Those boots are mighty nice for druids (and gratz)... but there are BoE blue boots that are better for rogues (fel leather boots and master's treads) just to name a few. The first is easy to get from any leather worker!

Things that I would change ASAP:

1) Replace boots and pants with fel leather pieces from a LW
2) Put a 30stam/10agi patch on the new pants and 12stam (or better 12agi) on the boots
3) Replace cloak with a delicate green poncho (nagrand quest) and put 12agi on it
4) Replace all gems with at least green quality (shoulders are worthy of better)
5) Get a meta gem (the one from spirit shards is fine - 20ap is 20ap)
6) AP enchants to gloves and bracers (these enchants are cheap... arcane dust only... 10-15g max)
#10 Oct 03 2007 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
Never in Gods name use EA, if your MT isn't a Warrior chances are your off tanks are.

Rogue DPS in raids is simple, flask properly, get your finisher cycle down as soon as you can, Vanish if you draw aggro, it is that simple. If you need practice sans the flasking, try BM a few times as its probably the best practice for finisher cycles, movement and living through some ditsy aoe.

If you are using a position dependent build, I suggest you check the area to make sure you won't draw aggro by moving behind.
#11 Oct 03 2007 at 9:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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You're specced Combat Daggers, but you have a 1.80 speed dagger in your offhand. That's a big no-no. Find a quick dagger for faster poison and Combat Potency procs.

Also, those boots are teh suck. You don't need Dodge rating for raiding. Even the Master's Treads would be an upgrade for you. You also need to upgrade those level 61 green pants. Try for the Midnight Leggings out of heroic Slave Pens. And socket that meta slot in your helmet!

Your talent build could use some work as well. Drop the points from Sword Spec and put them into Imp Kick or Endurance.
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#12 Oct 03 2007 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
Meridus gave some good advice...

a little more..

Re-gem everything you can w/ +8 hit gems at this point. You might be suprised at how often you miss w/ your current hit rating.
Check www.shadowpanther.net for every slot and see what you can afford/quest for.
Get on an arena team ASAP , even if you lose every game and save for a MH dagger/sword/fist.
#13 Oct 04 2007 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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341 posts
Update:

Got some more gear after the run finished tonight. I've tried to take all your advice to heart, but its only been 2 days. What gems should I be looking for for +hit especially?
#14 Oct 05 2007 at 3:30 AM Rating: Decent
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169 posts
uhh...first off i would consider a slight respec to remove those 2 pts in sword spec and put them elsewhere and remove the points from deflection as well...there are places in the combat tree that you could get far more use out of these 4 points. but besides that, grats on the nice loot...you seemed to be quite fortunate with the drops there(can i rub your head for luck?), and as always evis is a good combo point dump.
#15 Oct 05 2007 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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341 posts
I know about the points in sword spec. I leveled with a dagger MH and sword OH )I know, I know, I didn't understand then what I do now) and a part of me really wants that to still be viable. When I get i bit more gold to my name, I'll respec again.

I am well known (hated?) among fresh 70s on my server for my uncanny ability to get what I want to drop, when I want it to drop. I did a back to back Slave Pens/Underbog run around 64 and got everything I wanted from both instances.

Feel free to rub my head for luck, although I'm not bald (yet, give it five years).
#16 Oct 06 2007 at 12:04 AM Rating: Default
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ArundelvalEstar wrote:
I know about the points in sword spec. I leveled with a dagger MH and sword OH )I know, I know, I didn't understand then what I do now) and a part of me really wants that to still be viable. When I get i bit more gold to my name, I'll respec again.

I am well known (hated?) among fresh 70s on my server for my uncanny ability to get what I want to drop, when I want it to drop. I did a back to back Slave Pens/Underbog run around 64 and got everything I wanted from both instances.

Feel free to rub my head for luck, although I'm not bald (yet, give it five years).

I have the same luck.

The other rogues in my guild want me to go to T5 raids just because on my first ever kill of both Morogrim and Karathress, Talon of Azshara and Blood Sea Brigand Vest dropped.

That, cmbined with me getting geared in basically the best gear from T4 raids from the beginning of S2 means that they all want me in the raid when we do bosses with rogue loot.

It's just too bad I'm not a raider, thus I don't see any drops before the other rogues.
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