Hey,
So i'm a new poster to this forum, although I have been regularly reading them for around a year now, and have found them a great wealth of knowledge and imformation..
I have been 70 for a while now, and although I do regular av and 2v2 with a friend, my gear is mostly focused around pve dps.
Although I have a moderately low base crit rating, this is boosted considerably with frequent mongoose procs, and while raiding, crit is not a problem.
there are a few epic items that I have nearly farmed all the mats for, and my question is, are ap gems preferable over crit gems? with the gear I am getting in the near feature I will have enough hit rating along with 5/5 precision to be getting along fine in raids.
So basicly, crit or ap?
my armory profile is *hopefully* link here, http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khadgar&n=Indigoblaze
Thanks in advance for any advice.
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My choice for combat is AP.
But I am sure somebody will come along with calculations to back a theory :).
But I am sure somebody will come along with calculations to back a theory :).
Ahh, had to delete my post because of not paying enough attention so I didn't see you say anything about your future +hit rating... my bad
But seriously though, I'd still put more +hit rating gems in, this will greatly contribute to your overall dps in raids, even if you're planning on getting some real +hit gear later on.
Edited, Oct 2nd 2007 4:12pm by sermatt
But seriously though, I'd still put more +hit rating gems in, this will greatly contribute to your overall dps in raids, even if you're planning on getting some real +hit gear later on.
Edited, Oct 2nd 2007 4:12pm by sermatt
4 posts
I dont fully understand your post, your grammer is quite..vague.
So what is the bench mark amount of hit that I should be aiming for, taking into account precision?
So what is the bench mark amount of hit that I should be aiming for, taking into account precision?
With Precision and Weapon Expertise, 308 is the magic number.
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
Okay, first thing, use the spread sheet linked in my sig for fine tuning your gear setup. While it's not 100% accurate, it's supported by a large amount of testers over at EJ and is pretty much generally accepted as being the best rogue modeling tool available. Some basic rules of raiding and raid DPS as a rogue:
1) Paying full attention to what's going on and what you are doing is the biggest DPS increase you can get bar none.
2) Your DPS potential is not dependent on any one stat, rather it's dependent on the sum of all your DPS stats (hit, crit, ap).
3) All of your gear should be fully enchanted (helm glyph, ap on pants, agi on cape and boots, ap on bracers, ap or (even better) agi on gloves, etc... don't forget mongoose for weapons!
4) All of your gems should be raw DPS gems and have no stamina on them. There are two exceptions: 1) you need x blue gems for a meta gem to work, or 2) the item you are socketing has 1 blue socket and the set bonus is DPS oriented (EG: you can effectively pick up 6 stamina for free).
5) The marginal DPS gained from adding any pure DPS gem of the same quality is aproximately equal. Spread sheets generally give me less than 1 extra DPS on my buffed total when I swap a crit gem for a hit gem... this is on a predicted value of around 1500 total buffed dps. However, like many of us you will still want to maximize your DPS. In general, hit and agi will generally give you the best gains in a raid scenario with AP gems just behind, and crit rating gems taking up the rear. However, this is buffed DPS. Class buffs DO effect different builds and gear levels differently (so check out the spreadsheet yourself). Different stats scale better than others. Crit rating gems are generally the weakest choices for raiding. Crit scales well, but hit rating gems have a better rating to percentage conversion as it relates to overall damage. In general, they are better to stack until you reach cap (308 with 5/5 precision and WE on a raid boss level target).
6) You do not need 308 hit rating, 1700 ap, or 25% crit to do good damage. Always think about the "big picture" when choosing gear. Think about what you lose, and what you gain. If you are going to gain 10 hit rating, but lose 30 attack power, that's a stupid trade off. For quick reference, just use the itemization point system that blizzard put into place (as if you were comparing gems of equal quality). The DPS is approximately equivalent: 1agi = 2ap = 1 hit rating = 1 crit rating. This is not totally correct, but it's a good way to "eyeball" gear. I know that when using my unbuffed gear, AP gems would be favored... but since I don't generally roll without 24 of my closest buffing friends... I don't look at unbuffed DPS much... thus I choose hit based gems first for raiding... and since I'm now at cap I am generally using agi gems. I have a gem with crit/ap in my bracers which I use for PvP/PvE and I have purple gems in my belt to activate my meta gem... I have 1 ap gem which I am far too lazy to switch for agi in my pants... etc... In the end... the goal is to have a DPS gem in all your sockets of the highest quality that you can reasonable afford. If you play around with the spreadsheet you will realize that the actual difference in DPS gained/lost by swapping 10 crit gems for 10 hit gems in your gear is actually still pretty small... much smaller than most equipment upgrades.
7) Don't use druid leather. I am writing this just for you saturize! Your boots are awesome for feral druids... but they are not rogue boots! There are SEVERAL better blue boots that you can get from instances. Furthermore, both the fel leather boots (which are a BoE LW made item) and the masters treads (which are BoE and provide a level of extra stealth) will yield far better DPS than the epic you have equipt. Alternatively, the PvP honor boots are also a better choice. Since you are well into kara (based on your gear), definitely try your absolute best to make every Morose kill. His boots (the ones I'm wearing and I'm sure you are familiar with) will last you into T6 content. They are one of the best pieces you can get out of kara...
1) Paying full attention to what's going on and what you are doing is the biggest DPS increase you can get bar none.
2) Your DPS potential is not dependent on any one stat, rather it's dependent on the sum of all your DPS stats (hit, crit, ap).
3) All of your gear should be fully enchanted (helm glyph, ap on pants, agi on cape and boots, ap on bracers, ap or (even better) agi on gloves, etc... don't forget mongoose for weapons!
4) All of your gems should be raw DPS gems and have no stamina on them. There are two exceptions: 1) you need x blue gems for a meta gem to work, or 2) the item you are socketing has 1 blue socket and the set bonus is DPS oriented (EG: you can effectively pick up 6 stamina for free).
5) The marginal DPS gained from adding any pure DPS gem of the same quality is aproximately equal. Spread sheets generally give me less than 1 extra DPS on my buffed total when I swap a crit gem for a hit gem... this is on a predicted value of around 1500 total buffed dps. However, like many of us you will still want to maximize your DPS. In general, hit and agi will generally give you the best gains in a raid scenario with AP gems just behind, and crit rating gems taking up the rear. However, this is buffed DPS. Class buffs DO effect different builds and gear levels differently (so check out the spreadsheet yourself). Different stats scale better than others. Crit rating gems are generally the weakest choices for raiding. Crit scales well, but hit rating gems have a better rating to percentage conversion as it relates to overall damage. In general, they are better to stack until you reach cap (308 with 5/5 precision and WE on a raid boss level target).
6) You do not need 308 hit rating, 1700 ap, or 25% crit to do good damage. Always think about the "big picture" when choosing gear. Think about what you lose, and what you gain. If you are going to gain 10 hit rating, but lose 30 attack power, that's a stupid trade off. For quick reference, just use the itemization point system that blizzard put into place (as if you were comparing gems of equal quality). The DPS is approximately equivalent: 1agi = 2ap = 1 hit rating = 1 crit rating. This is not totally correct, but it's a good way to "eyeball" gear. I know that when using my unbuffed gear, AP gems would be favored... but since I don't generally roll without 24 of my closest buffing friends... I don't look at unbuffed DPS much... thus I choose hit based gems first for raiding... and since I'm now at cap I am generally using agi gems. I have a gem with crit/ap in my bracers which I use for PvP/PvE and I have purple gems in my belt to activate my meta gem... I have 1 ap gem which I am far too lazy to switch for agi in my pants... etc... In the end... the goal is to have a DPS gem in all your sockets of the highest quality that you can reasonable afford. If you play around with the spreadsheet you will realize that the actual difference in DPS gained/lost by swapping 10 crit gems for 10 hit gems in your gear is actually still pretty small... much smaller than most equipment upgrades.
7) Don't use druid leather. I am writing this just for you saturize! Your boots are awesome for feral druids... but they are not rogue boots! There are SEVERAL better blue boots that you can get from instances. Furthermore, both the fel leather boots (which are a BoE LW made item) and the masters treads (which are BoE and provide a level of extra stealth) will yield far better DPS than the epic you have equipt. Alternatively, the PvP honor boots are also a better choice. Since you are well into kara (based on your gear), definitely try your absolute best to make every Morose kill. His boots (the ones I'm wearing and I'm sure you are familiar with) will last you into T6 content. They are one of the best pieces you can get out of kara...
LordMeridus wrote:
6) You do not need 308 hit rating, 1700 ap, or 25% crit to do good damage. Always think about the "big picture" when choosing gear. Think about what you lose, and what you gain. If you are going to gain 10 hit rating, but lose 30 attack power, that's a stupid trade off.
Ah, I am so glad there are more people here who understand how +hit relates to AP/crit and don't join the blind race to max hit rating regardless of how much other stats they lose.
/salute
Btw, I got to an interesting point with my gear setup - I had +1 hit being worth less than 1 AEP for a short moment there. But that was really short, I just upgraded 2 pieces and now I have 1 hit equal 1 AEP again. But I still prefer agility to hit, as it comes with some dodge as bonus. Not that I have much choice - with the few sockets I have I barely meet the metagem requirements...
how did you figure that out? are you using the spreadsheet, if so what are you doing where in it? thanks
On the bottom of the 'talents' tab you have a big button to recalculate AEP values. You need to press it every time you change something in your talents/gear, and you need to have macros working. It will give you the current values of all stats relative to agility.
Basically this thing gives out one message: crit rating sucks compared to everything else.
Btw, get the newest spreadsheet version (2.2.13), much was improved recently. I think it is the first one that choses 1s/5r cycle for T4 bonus correctly.
Basically this thing gives out one message: crit rating sucks compared to everything else.
Btw, get the newest spreadsheet version (2.2.13), much was improved recently. I think it is the first one that choses 1s/5r cycle for T4 bonus correctly.
4 posts
Meridus, thanks for the shadowpanther link, this is just the thing I have been looking for.
saturize wrote:
Meridus, thanks for the shadowpanther link, this is just the thing I have been looking for.
Take everything on there with a grain of salt. It's an excellent resource to find pretty much every piece of "rogue" gear that you can get (what I use it for mostly). Some of his AEP calculations might be a bit misleading in some cases. His calculations are "rough" compared to the DPS calculator... but again make it easy to eyeball stuff. You can also customize your own values for everything if you want. IE: many people will slightly adjust the values for crit/ap/hit to be more in line with their build.
In the end, it's a valuable resource if you keep in mind that it's not an "end all, be all" guide to everything DPS. It's absolutely great as far as gear indexing though!
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