So I'm trying a new spec...Follow

Looks like a nice 41/20/0. Any reasons why you're dumping combat? If it's convincing enough, hey I might pick up a few and join ya :D

*******. I'm still waiting on a Malch.


Get Fiery btw, it is more dps than +7dmg if you are going the cheap route.


Other than that spec is good, but I would consider building a 4dps. Mut shines there well.

Oh and, booo Retainer's.



Get OH asap.

Actually, I was thinking the same thing. Although, if it's a choice between Imp Kick and Imp Sprint, the latter wins every time for PvP.

Also, what would you say if I told you that I'd take a point out of Lethality and fill out Master Poisoner? Faster Wound stacking, and that's probably worth much more than 6% more crit damage in 5v5 (although I've never done 5v5, so I wouldn't know first-hand).

Edited, Oct 2nd 2007 12:35am by Demea

So you think I should get an OH dagger ASAP?

Well, I'll be buying a S2 OH tonight when arena points update and slapping 20 Agi on it.

I'm thinking about dropping BS too; I think if I ever go back to maces I'll save up points for the S2 MH.

That engineering flying mount is just too tasty to not try for.

That and since I have 3 nethers already, I can make a pair of gogs for arena or for PvE.

Yeah, though you really can't complain with all the use you got out of the mace.

I think I'll see what the mats are like for the flying machine/vendor bot before I drop BS, though.

I'm assuming this is for PvE, but your post says you are arena...What are you primarily going to be doing with this spec?

I don't know, I really like where most of the points are in this build. I'd love it if I could get Imp KS, but I just can't justify giving up any of the other talents for it.

This build is for arena, for everyone wondering, btw.

They really, really don't.

Enlighten me?

The only viable PvP talents in the early combat tree is imp. sprint and imp. gouge.

What would precision do for PvP? you don't need 24.9% hit to hit another 70 player. Dual Wield Spec? Like I said, it offers more white dmg over time, but how many arenas last long enough to say "zomg my white damage totally won that match for us."

Also like I said, since Rogues basically weren't designed to have very much functionality in an Arena, most of us of succumbed to being the interupting nuisance to healers. Now I personally, would much rather have faster stealth speeds to reach the people in the back before they can engage my teammates, I would also like to have a higher dmg output on my main attack, rather than my hits inbetween, not to mention longer range on quite possibly the only form of in combat CC, with increased range, and a lower cost. And I apologize, but if I'm chasing down a healer, trying to interupt heals while dpsing them down, I don't think i'm gonna waste my CP's on SnD.



Can you please give me a side by side comparison of why the talents in the early combat tree, with a mutilate build outweigh those of the sub. tree?
This is all speculation tho, I am more PvE oriented, and most of my PvPing just comes from off-days of raiding.

And on a side note, I find it hard to believe that you know that much about arena's either. I'm sorry but stacking stam and BG honor gear, with 2 PoS ratings, 1 S2 armor, 1 S2 weapon, and 1 S1 throwing weap, doesn't exactly make me believe you think you know everything about Arena's



Edited, Oct 2nd 2007 2:01pm by superkegs

Arena is about sustained damage in addition to our normal control. Sub is based around stealth, which we will be in for a very, very short time in arena.

That's why combat is better than sub for Mut in arena.

BTW, SnD is the best finisher you can use in arena.

As far as Opportunity vs DW Spec, here's an abbreviated form of the math for damage.

Opportunity increaases Mut's damage by 20% on both hands.

Considering you get 20 energy ever 2 secs, that's 6 secs every Mut if you do nothing but Mut. Of course, we'll be throwing finishers, but that's beside the point. For this example, we're simply talking about damage with DW Spec vs Opportunity.

So, in those 6 seconds with a 1.4 speed OH you're going to be hitting roughly once every second.

Add 25% damage to every hit on that OH, and then add 25% damage to the OH strike on that Mut that you do every 60 seconds.

Yeah.

As well as Duel Wield and Precision.

For one thing, most pvp gear has no +hit on it (except the weapons) and nobody will gem +hit on it either. End result, without precision, you won't even have a 100% hit rate on your yellow attack.



Says who?

My average 2v2 last 3 minutes, my average 3v3 last 4.

I've had game where I used Adrenaline Rush twice.


What's your personal arena rating like, I wonder?

Stealth is a flawed mechanism, the only thing the stealth talent do is make up for your own lazyness - they are not needed and are ultimately a waste of point. You also don't stay long/often enough for them to be worth anything.



For starter, Improved sprint by itself is better then the entire Subtlety tree, let alone only 20 points in it.

Then you go and compare relatively useless talents (Talents based on Stealth: MoD, Camo) and talents that are extremely situational and are only used once - while you're in stealth (Initiative, Imp Ambush, Dirty trick) and you are left with exactly 2 talents worth a damn - Elusivness and Serrated Blade.

And neither is as good as Imp Sprint.

Longer Gouge?

More overall white damage (precision and DW spec)?

No miss rate on yellow (precision?)

But what about Opportunity? Surely that's important for a Mutilate build? Wrong.