So some of you probably saw my thread asking about switching from Hunter to Warlock, anyone as many suggestedI've decided to try a Lock til lvl 25 or so and see how I feel.
Anyways I've pretty set on Horde because my other characters have all been Alliance and although I liked them I'm interested to see the other lands. The only races I like the looks of are Undead and Blood Elf, leaning towards a BE female, but will that gimp me in either early levels or beginning levels? Mostly I'll be soloing PVE but I also plan to do some battlegrounds when appropriate level.
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are BElf Warlocks gimped? PVE and PVPFollow
icemandarekthanius wrote:
So some of you probably saw my thread asking about switching from Hunter to Warlock, anyone as many suggestedI've decided to try a Lock til lvl 25 or so and see how I feel.
Anyways I've pretty set on Horde because my other characters have all been Alliance and although I liked them I'm interested to see the other lands. The only races I like the looks of are Undead and Blood Elf, leaning towards a BE female, but will that gimp me in either early levels or beginning levels? Mostly I'll be soloing PVE but I also plan to do some battlegrounds when appropriate level.
Anyways I've pretty set on Horde because my other characters have all been Alliance and although I liked them I'm interested to see the other lands. The only races I like the looks of are Undead and Blood Elf, leaning towards a BE female, but will that gimp me in either early levels or beginning levels? Mostly I'll be soloing PVE but I also plan to do some battlegrounds when appropriate level.
Y'know, there is a thread on the main board, where a poster implied that BE racials are poor. That poster got thoroughly flamed, and rightly so. The races in WoW are essentially balanced. There are people who will say that Undead, Orcs, Blood Elves, Gnomes, and/or Humans make the best warlocks. Guess what? They are all correct! The reason they are all correct is that they enjoy playing those races, and that is the true measure of a race in WoW.
I agree but not fully. Ofc you shouldnt play a race you dislike, but undeads is better than belf. Atleast imo. And thats both PvP and PvE wise.
cannibalize > mana tap
wotf > aoe silence
As a lock you wanna stay ranged so aoe silence wouldnt be very usefull. Exept maybe against frost mages, who needs to frost nova.
cannibalize > mana tap
wotf > aoe silence
As a lock you wanna stay ranged so aoe silence wouldnt be very usefull. Exept maybe against frost mages, who needs to frost nova.
people seriously under rate AoE silence, it's saved me alot of times from getting stuff in fear or taking a pyroblast to the face. Wotf is ok but most people have one fear or one that takes time to cast, you can just trinket out it and cast yours.. Ok eatting the dead woiuld be handy in pvp but normally drain life keeps me full (unless i'm ganged up on then it gets fun)
In the end it just comes down to your look, the racials only help in certain situations and really shouldnt be relied on
cannibalize > mana tap, lies i rather have a a few charges for if i'm fighting something tough and low on hp and mp (enough to cast a fear and a drain life normally) than being able to eat when out of combat.
In the end it just comes down to your look, the racials only help in certain situations and really shouldnt be relied on
cannibalize > mana tap, lies i rather have a a few charges for if i'm fighting something tough and low on hp and mp (enough to cast a fear and a drain life normally) than being able to eat when out of combat.
ohmikeghod the Venerable wrote:
icemandarekthanius wrote:
So some of you probably saw my thread asking about switching from Hunter to Warlock, anyone as many suggestedI've decided to try a Lock til lvl 25 or so and see how I feel.
Anyways I've pretty set on Horde because my other characters have all been Alliance and although I liked them I'm interested to see the other lands. The only races I like the looks of are Undead and Blood Elf, leaning towards a BE female, but will that gimp me in either early levels or beginning levels? Mostly I'll be soloing PVE but I also plan to do some battlegrounds when appropriate level.
Anyways I've pretty set on Horde because my other characters have all been Alliance and although I liked them I'm interested to see the other lands. The only races I like the looks of are Undead and Blood Elf, leaning towards a BE female, but will that gimp me in either early levels or beginning levels? Mostly I'll be soloing PVE but I also plan to do some battlegrounds when appropriate level.
Y'know, there is a thread on the main board, where a poster implied that BE racials are poor. That poster got thoroughly flamed, and rightly so. The races in WoW are essentially balanced. There are people who will say that Undead, Orcs, Blood Elves, Gnomes, and/or Humans make the best warlocks. Guess what? They are all correct! The reason they are all correct is that they enjoy playing those races, and that is the true measure of a race in WoW.
My first post will have to be a debunking post... *sigh*
The O-Boards may be ********, but they aren't so full of this rainbow-and-puppies thinking *********
This goes along the same thinking that all classes are the same in power, when not only has it been proven that this is a paper-rock-scissors system, but that some classes have yet to be balanced in every fashion for PvP.
It's obvious that half these racials have more efficiency in PvE than PvP for certain classes. It's also obvious that there is a dominant race for certain classes as well.
For Rogues, this is obviously Blood Elf; it not only is the best for a consta-stun lock in PvP, but it also gives you an energy boost which alone makes it best for both PvE and PvP.
For Warlocks, the racials differ ever slightly. Orc Warlocks appear to be the best for PvE due to the increased damage of Blood Fury and bonus pet damage, but loses in comparison to defeating fellow Warlocks, Priests, and possibly Warriors with Undead racials of bonus Shadow Resistance and Will of the Forsaken.
I don't have time to finish, so I'll just leave you with that.
actually for rogues undead are probably the best for pvp. will of the forsaken is the most powerful pvp ability around as fear is a bit of univseral distance generator but i'll agree that blood elf rogues are pretty close behind them for pvp ability
Jenovaomega wrote:
actually for rogues undead are probably the best for pvp.
"I don't agree with your opinion, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it!"
I dont quite agree with the "you shouldnt choose a race cos of racials" idea; that only applies *because* Blizzard have balanced out the racials to being almost uniformally rubbish. If a certain race had a "Click to instantly kill targeted player, break his items, rape his horses, sell his children into slavery" then you can bet that even if that race had seven eyes and nine ********* that would be the only race you would see (apart from RPers having greasy cybersex in Darnassus...).
In my humble opinion, the Undead racials are pretty damn nice; Cannibalize is so nice I wish I could level with it all over again, WotF (especially for rogues) is practically a gamewinner and their racial resistance (shadow) is actually worth having as it defends against the most disruptive of spell schools.
However...
BE racials, while not as good for PvE after lvl30 (after that, the mana gained from Arcane Torrent charges basically blows) are actually extremely strong for group PvP. The AoE silence gives you a last-ditch, powerful ability to use in Arena or even better, Battlegrounds. Currently the silence doesnt have a unit cap, so you can theoretically silence half a battleground for 2 sec if you get in the right place.
Now normally Id say this is more suited to Paladins, who can wade into a group, crack off a Consecrate and then Silence+Bubble and run just to be annoying, but Warlocks can do one very nasty trick which works nicely in Arena. Get yourself in the middle of the enemy group, cast Howl of Terror and *then* Silence; Fear is usually dispelled pretty fast in 5v5, that silence is giving you 2 seconds during which everyone will be basically defenseless. In the high-damage Arena environment thats a pretty big deal, and it gives Warlocks (or any Belf) the potential to be more disruptive than any other race *in the short term*.
~sin
In my humble opinion, the Undead racials are pretty damn nice; Cannibalize is so nice I wish I could level with it all over again, WotF (especially for rogues) is practically a gamewinner and their racial resistance (shadow) is actually worth having as it defends against the most disruptive of spell schools.
However...
BE racials, while not as good for PvE after lvl30 (after that, the mana gained from Arcane Torrent charges basically blows) are actually extremely strong for group PvP. The AoE silence gives you a last-ditch, powerful ability to use in Arena or even better, Battlegrounds. Currently the silence doesnt have a unit cap, so you can theoretically silence half a battleground for 2 sec if you get in the right place.
Now normally Id say this is more suited to Paladins, who can wade into a group, crack off a Consecrate and then Silence+Bubble and run just to be annoying, but Warlocks can do one very nasty trick which works nicely in Arena. Get yourself in the middle of the enemy group, cast Howl of Terror and *then* Silence; Fear is usually dispelled pretty fast in 5v5, that silence is giving you 2 seconds during which everyone will be basically defenseless. In the high-damage Arena environment thats a pretty big deal, and it gives Warlocks (or any Belf) the potential to be more disruptive than any other race *in the short term*.
~sin
Quote:
Y'know, there is a thread on the main board, where a poster implied that BE racials are poor. That poster got thoroughly flamed, and rightly so. The races in WoW are essentially balanced. There are people who will say that Undead, Orcs, Blood Elves, Gnomes, and/or Humans make the best warlocks. Guess what? They are all correct! The reason they are all correct is that they enjoy playing those races, and that is the true measure of a race in WoW.
Racials do matter, especially in PVP. But in high end PVE they make a difference too, if I was raiding black temple, and orc warlock >> all.
Blood elf racials are worthless to a warlock. You don't fight casters at melee distance, which is where you have to be for silence. Its on a lame cooldown, the duration sucks, they are definately the worst candidate for a warlock. Other classes like rogues, you could make a half decent argument for most races (except trolls), though a troll rogue is still alot more useful then a blood elf warlock. The only reason to roll a blood elf warlock is for looks, and theres not really anything wrong with that. But if you take PVP or raiding seriously at 70, you'll probably regret your choice.
Interesting.
So what of an undead 'lock, mike?
(and I'm thinking of rolling a rogue, so what would be the 'best' race for that, in your opinion? I know you've said any but troll, but still - give me your opinion. :o))
So what of an undead 'lock, mike?
(and I'm thinking of rolling a rogue, so what would be the 'best' race for that, in your opinion? I know you've said any but troll, but still - give me your opinion. :o))
Inoperante wrote:
Interesting.
So what of an undead 'lock, mike?
So what of an undead 'lock, mike?
My advice is simply this:
Instead of choosing a class because of its racials, choose the class that you LIKE, then learn how to use the racials it has.
IE: WotF is great for a rogue blah blah. Perception is great for a lock blah blah. Both suck if you dont use them. blah blah blah.
Instead of choosing a class because of its racials, choose the class that you LIKE, then learn how to use the racials it has.
IE: WotF is great for a rogue blah blah. Perception is great for a lock blah blah. Both suck if you dont use them. blah blah blah.
perception sucks for a lock and all other classes who can have it (crap racial), escape artist will save your life loads in pvp and pve and that's about it alliance side.
horde side the undead will of the forsaken is the most powerful pvp racial in the game, closely followed by the blood elfs with their silence and then the taurons with their stun. orcs are about on par to the taurans due to stun resist and, at 70, having a racial trinket for like roughly 200 +damage
horde side the undead will of the forsaken is the most powerful pvp racial in the game, closely followed by the blood elfs with their silence and then the taurons with their stun. orcs are about on par to the taurans due to stun resist and, at 70, having a racial trinket for like roughly 200 +damage
Who cares about racials when your toon can look like Barbie doll?
you missed my point totally Jeno.
My point was if you dont use them, ALL racials suck. period.
Pick your character, then learn your racials strengths (and in the case of NE true suck).
And I dont think youd say perception sucks near as much, If you actually played a character that had it, AND USED IT. I think anyone so close minded as to say its useless, doesnt know how to use it.
My point was if you dont use them, ALL racials suck. period.
Pick your character, then learn your racials strengths (and in the case of NE true suck).
And I dont think youd say perception sucks near as much, If you actually played a character that had it, AND USED IT. I think anyone so close minded as to say its useless, doesnt know how to use it.
Quote:
(and I'm thinking of rolling a rogue, so what would be the 'best' race for that, in your opinion? I know you've said any but troll, but still - give me your opinion. :o))
Blood elves make good all around rogues, arcane torment restores 30 energy which is handy, and you're always in melee distance to get that silence off.
Undead are god mode against alliance warlocks and priests, and personally I use cannibalize all the time while grinding.
Orc would still be best for PVE with blood fury, you just have to know when to use it. At 70 it grants +282 attack power (or 143 spell damage) for 15 seconds, but reduces all healing by 50%.
All my classes lately have been undead, I have a rogue mage and warrior. I really like undead and I don't pick 100% by racials. If I went by racials my lock would be an orc for raiding, and my warrior would be a tauren for tanking (+5% HP). But I hate the look of taurens, it frustrates me they're the only horde race that can play a druid. At least you don't see their model often as a druid, but I still don't like them.
My 70 lock is a gnome, and for PVP escape artist is amazing. I mean truely amazing. Hamstring, concussive shot, frost nova, frostbolt snares, crippling poison, frost shock, CoEx, so many more and its on a 1 minute cooldown. I love my undead mage, but I will HATE fighting gnomes because of that ability, its extremely powerful especially against mages.
Edited, Oct 2nd 2007 2:54pm by mikelolol
oric, i've played plenty of characters with perception and it's only useful if you SEE a rogue stealth near you, otherwise it's useless as you could just use it every 2min for the blind luck of trying to find a stealthed unit... but the odds are you won't. also i agree that the nightelf racials are crap. ohhh, i've stealthed on this spot.. i wonder if you'll find me... LOL
The horde racials are just kinda cracked out. I play horde, I love horde, but seriously, WotF, Blood Fury and War Stomp are all great, arcane torrent and berzerking aren't world changing, but they're still good. Compare them to the alliance racials.
Perception is only good if you KNOW a rogue is there.
Escape Artist is good, but generally I just double up on my **** against gnomes.
Stoneform is weak sauce, only really helps as pally or warrior if you're fighting a rogue.
For NE I don't know if I want to laugh more at wisp spirit or shadowmeld, although it is nice that it makes you untargetable for the start of arenas.
Draenei are kinda crack on their racials. Gift is decent for close fights, their auras are pretty good for raids.
Anyway, when it comes to the "best racials" I'm going to have to say Blood Fury is the win. Just being able to produce an extra couple hundred spell power from your **** is nothing to sneeze at.
Perception is only good if you KNOW a rogue is there.
Escape Artist is good, but generally I just double up on my **** against gnomes.
Stoneform is weak sauce, only really helps as pally or warrior if you're fighting a rogue.
For NE I don't know if I want to laugh more at wisp spirit or shadowmeld, although it is nice that it makes you untargetable for the start of arenas.
Draenei are kinda crack on their racials. Gift is decent for close fights, their auras are pretty good for raids.
Anyway, when it comes to the "best racials" I'm going to have to say Blood Fury is the win. Just being able to produce an extra couple hundred spell power from your **** is nothing to sneeze at.
Best races for classes, by order of obvious:
Druid-Tauren
Shaman-Tauren mostly, Orc secondly
Paladin-If Gnomes could be Paladins, they'd rock, but we're stuck with Blood Elf.
Warrior-Gnome. Straight up, a Warrior's worst enemy is snares. Of course, for PvE, Tauren Warriors will come through just because of the Health boost and War Stomp.
Hunters-Tauren for PvP, Orc for PvE
Mage-Undead Mage is cool, but no race truly benefits them in PvE.
Warlock-Undead Warlock schools PvP with WoTF, Shadow Resist, and Cannabalize, but Orc Warlock's Blood Fury and Bonus Pet Damage makes Orcs more PvE viable.
Rogue-Only Gnome is worth a damn in the Alliance side, and every race but obviously Tauren can be argued in some facet as the best Rogue.
Priest-Undead Priests school PvP, but Dwarf, Draenei, and Humans all have some viable PvE racials.
Druid-Tauren
Shaman-Tauren mostly, Orc secondly
Paladin-If Gnomes could be Paladins, they'd rock, but we're stuck with Blood Elf.
Warrior-Gnome. Straight up, a Warrior's worst enemy is snares. Of course, for PvE, Tauren Warriors will come through just because of the Health boost and War Stomp.
Hunters-Tauren for PvP, Orc for PvE
Mage-Undead Mage is cool, but no race truly benefits them in PvE.
Warlock-Undead Warlock schools PvP with WoTF, Shadow Resist, and Cannabalize, but Orc Warlock's Blood Fury and Bonus Pet Damage makes Orcs more PvE viable.
Rogue-Only Gnome is worth a damn in the Alliance side, and every race but obviously Tauren can be argued in some facet as the best Rogue.
Priest-Undead Priests school PvP, but Dwarf, Draenei, and Humans all have some viable PvE racials.
You got some of the classes wrong:
The druid and the rogue for starters. The Nelf's racials aren't bad when you consider that all nelfs because of shadowmeld (which is one of racials everyone is lol'ing about) effectively have one extra stealth-level!!! This means that as a druid or rogue you get 1 free extra talent point!!! (that is ofc if you would've specc for imp. stealth, but then again, it's rather much of a must for PvP imo). Now if you got to choose between 1 free talentpoint or a short-time stun with a casting time, which would you choose?
The 1%dodge is almost neglible but still, it gives more survivabilty
Wisp=LOL
Priest: are you aware that dranei and dwarfs are getting a stun (or was it silence?) as their new racial when fear ward is given to all priests? This will make them rather strong PvP'ers (maybe even on par with UD? /looks scared of the thought. I agree that cannibalize and WotF is nice, but an extra disrupter is kinda good too.)
Paladins: Humans get extra wep. skill with their big 2-handers, which aint too shabby if you ask me, but then again, my best friend plays a ret pala, so that might color my opinion :P
Hunters: huh? what have you got against dwarfs? extra gun skill is rather good and if you need that stun thing, you are doing something wrong imo and you should learn to kite or wingclip which goes faster. One could argue that when a hamstrung (gramma? lol) hunter is being followed by wingcliped warrior the stun would be nice, but one has to cast it so personally I find it kinda meh'ish.
EDOT: DOH - just read the OP and he states that he wants to play horde, just nvm the above then :P
Edited, Oct 7th 2007 5:29pm by krqllebqlle
The druid and the rogue for starters. The Nelf's racials aren't bad when you consider that all nelfs because of shadowmeld (which is one of racials everyone is lol'ing about) effectively have one extra stealth-level!!! This means that as a druid or rogue you get 1 free extra talent point!!! (that is ofc if you would've specc for imp. stealth, but then again, it's rather much of a must for PvP imo). Now if you got to choose between 1 free talentpoint or a short-time stun with a casting time, which would you choose?
The 1%dodge is almost neglible but still, it gives more survivabilty
Wisp=LOL
Priest: are you aware that dranei and dwarfs are getting a stun (or was it silence?) as their new racial when fear ward is given to all priests? This will make them rather strong PvP'ers (maybe even on par with UD? /looks scared of the thought. I agree that cannibalize and WotF is nice, but an extra disrupter is kinda good too.)
Paladins: Humans get extra wep. skill with their big 2-handers, which aint too shabby if you ask me, but then again, my best friend plays a ret pala, so that might color my opinion :P
Hunters: huh? what have you got against dwarfs? extra gun skill is rather good and if you need that stun thing, you are doing something wrong imo and you should learn to kite or wingclip which goes faster. One could argue that when a hamstrung (gramma? lol) hunter is being followed by wingcliped warrior the stun would be nice, but one has to cast it so personally I find it kinda meh'ish.
EDOT: DOH - just read the OP and he states that he wants to play horde, just nvm the above then :P
Edited, Oct 7th 2007 5:29pm by krqllebqlle
krqllebqlle wrote:
The druid and the rogue for starters. The Nelf's racials aren't bad when you consider that all nelfs because of shadowmeld (which is one of racials everyone is lol'ing about) effectively have one extra stealth-level!!! This means that as a druid or rogue you get 1 free extra talent point!!!
1 stealth level is totally not War Stomp. 1% Dodge doesn't beat a 5% Health Bonus... at least for a Druid.
Quote:
Paladins: Humans get extra wep. skill with their big 2-handers, which aint too shabby if you ask me, but then again, my best friend plays a ret pala, so that might color my opinion :P
Holy Paladins are practically, overall, the best healers of WoW. In that case, Humans suck.
Quote:
Hunters: huh? what have you got against dwarfs? extra gun skill is rather good and if you need that stun thing, you are doing something wrong imo and you should learn to kite or wingclip which goes faster. One could argue that when a hamstrung (gramma? lol) hunter is being followed by wingcliped warrior the stun would be nice, but one has to cast it so personally I find it kinda meh'ish.
Trolls get bonus Bow skill, which is far better in the fact that Bows and Crossbows tend to hold the end-game stats. They also get the ASPD racial... So if any arguement were to be made for skill bonus, it'd be obvious that Troll>Dwarf. And yet, somehow I prefer Tauren still.
Edited, Oct 7th 2007 6:38pm by Ignuus
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