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Talent Build Comparison?Follow

#1 Sep 30 2007 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
My current talent build - going BM spec - is going to end up something like this, I think:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0520320050521205313510550201000000000000000300000000000000000000

Which is: 45/13/3

But I was looking through the little 'talents' thing at the bottom of the topic list of Allakhazam, and my intended build was listed as one of the least common.

More common was:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?5120020052501224310510505201205000000000000000000000000000000000

Which is: 41/20/0

Unfortunately, this is my first ever char on WoW, so I really don't know the difference - if any - between the two.

Could someone explain what the differences between the builds might be and/or what in the build would let you use them differently?

Thanks in advance, guys.
#2 Sep 30 2007 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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2,717 posts
First suggestion, use the wowhead talent calculator (on wowhead.com). It's easier and it loads faster. Second...

Your build is not a bad solo build. It allows your pet to be a much better tank by being able to take more hits (catlike reflexes, endurance training, thick hide), allows you to hit from farther away, and allows you and your pet to contribute tremendous damage.
The build that is mentioned has the most possible damage-dealing potential (IAotH, dropping to 4/5 frenzy to pick up animal handler, gaining a lot of crits, etc). So while your build is fine for solo, and still wouldn't be too bad in a group, it is not the supreme DPS that a 41/20 build would have. (The only real difference between the 2 popular 41/20 builds is substituting imp mark for efficiency).

Now, also know that the talent section here doesn't include the best builds, but the most popular ones. There is a survival tree that at least one hunter per raid (meaning 25-man) should have, but it isn't even listed. And the purposes of the builds are not mentioned, where there are different purposes for some builds (i.e. focusing on instant shots and burst damage for PvP, survivability for solo play, CC or off-tank ability for 5-mans, or pure long-term DPS for raids).

So, while you are levelling, it's considered better to pick up the talents that will help your pet survive longer, because it's your tank, but when you hit 70 and start raiding you may want to respec to more DPS.
#3 Sep 30 2007 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
Thanks for the response, skribs.

But...Let me see if I understood everything correctly.

My build would be okay for soloing - and since I'm level 22, wouldn't be all too bad a thing to shoot for.
When I hit 70 and/or begin doing raids of any kind, I'll probably need to spec in another form of BM to be more useful.
And there's another build - one that's survival based - that would also be necessary for raids....one that's not mentioned in the talent thread.

If those are right, then I have a few more questions. Sorry! >_<

1. Even though the other build is better for raiding, is that a build that I'd want to switch to even before I start raiding, as in....50-ish? Or 60-ish? Or...where?
2. Is Imp. Hawk really that great? ...If it is, I actually may not need to respec to get the build that I was shooting for - I took it off, because it didn't proc that often, and I wasn't sure if it would be something worthwhile later.
3. What does that survival-spec build that every raid needs look like? I'm guessing that it's based primarily around stuns and traps - would that be anywhere near?
4. How much is not taking the three points in Hawk Eye going to hurt soloing? Or grouping?

#4 Sep 30 2007 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
1. Even though the other build is better for raiding, is that a build that I'd want to switch to even before I start raiding, as in....50-ish? Or 60-ish? Or...where?
2. Is Imp. Hawk really that great? ...If it is, I actually may not need to respec to get the build that I was shooting for - I took it off, because it didn't proc that often, and I wasn't sure if it would be something worthwhile later.
3. What does that survival-spec build that every raid needs look like? I'm guessing that it's based primarily around stuns and traps - would that be anywhere near?
4. How much is not taking the three points in Hawk Eye going to hurt soloing? Or grouping?


1. The reason the other build is great for raiding is because it focuses on your damage-dealing potential. The first build gives your pet more survivability, which is very helpful for leveling or even for soloing at 70. The thing is, in raids your pet would probably be 1-shotted, so you're not likely to off-tank at all with it. So, only when you start doing raids or heroics regularly, which is at level 70, would I recommend a pure DPS build.
2. IAotH is the only first-tier BM talent that increases DPS, and therefore should be in every BM DPS build. However, if you go marksman or survival, it is still an easy 5 points to spend that will up your DPS. You will probably see a 4% increase in your damage-dealing potential by having hawk, so yes it is great. But, again, in solo play you would better off with a stronger pet than a stronger bow if you go down the BM line.
3. Actually, while some survival builds are based on traps (and are common for heroics), once you hit raids the survival spec is this. It focuses on agility and crit, and every time you crit you get mana back and temporarily give all melee DPS and fellow hunters a huge increase in damage potential. This is a high-DPS build (albeit not as much as the BM spec, but you add more to the raid).
A trap-based SV spec wouldn't really use stuns, but would have a lot of crowd control, and would probably look something like this. With this build, you may sacrifice 4-5% of your damage dealing potential to include longer traps with a shorter cooldown, scatter shot, deterrence, and wyvern sting.
4. Hawk eye will not really hurt soloing or grouping. In fact, in some ways it helps. It DOES increase your range to 41 yards, which means you can pull from farther. However, if you fight from closer to benefit from auras or totems, you may see some difficulties. Also, it is 3 talent points for no real difference if you're sitting there shooting at 20-30 yards, whereas if you were to put those 3 points into finishing mortal shots you could see a 3.6% increase in your damage from those 3 points if you have a 20% crit chance (which you should have for raiding, if you're BM).
#5 Oct 01 2007 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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2,388 posts
The sooner people realize that if you just go with my spec you will rule everything, the sooner hunters become the new power class in WoW.
#6 Oct 01 2007 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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2,717 posts
Caldone, there are 2 problems with your build.
1. It's marksman.
2. It's marksman.
I know that's the same problem, but it's just so important I felt I had to say it twice.
#7 Oct 01 2007 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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2,388 posts
Quote:
Caldone, there are 2 problems with your build.
1. It's marksman.
2. It's marksman.
I know that's the same problem, but it's just so important I felt I had to say it twice.


3 reasons my Talent build owns:

1) It's MM.
2) It's MM with the survivability gathered from the Surv talent tree.
3) It's MM.

Yes I repeated myself, but it was so damn important I felt I had to say it again.
#8 Oct 01 2007 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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2,717 posts
Oh, wow, you used my same arguement against me. How can someone with that much wit possibly make an infallible build? /sarcasm off.
#9 Oct 01 2007 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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2,388 posts
:D

Quote:
ow can someone with that much wit possibly make an infallible build?


>.< DOH!

MM FTW!
#10 Oct 01 2007 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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27,272 posts
I fully agree with Caldone, MM is awesome for pvp only, not for pve.
#11 Oct 01 2007 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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2,388 posts
GRRR!!

I am not a PVP player :P

Well... except for Arena. Well.. and the honor I needed for the Neckpiece.

My Build I did soley for PVE. Thus the points into Survival. I just need to respec to get those gastly points out of Entrapment into Improved Wing Clip. Never seen Entrapment proc :(
#12 Oct 02 2007 at 12:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Thats because if entrapment procs, you wont notice it.

And just spec 41/20/0 or 5/20/36 for PvE ;) (0/20/41 also works)
Just face it, MM isnt a good pve spec anymore beyond moroes.
#13 Oct 02 2007 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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2,388 posts
Quote:
And just spec 41/20/0 or 5/20/36 for PvE ;) (0/20/41 also works)
Just face it, MM isnt a good pve spec anymore beyond moroes.


The thought ran through my mind of killing you when you made that comment, I will let it slip.... once.

MM is awesome no matter what ya'll say, I will not be changing. That is the only thing about my will not's that can be believed, is I will not be changing from MM you bastages.
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