One last respec.Follow

I was looking over the sticky Jack wrote and was looking over the talent builds for main tanking and reviewed the maintanking one:

Now that I hit 70 and got my flyer I was thinking about a respec now that I can turn my attention towards the other instances with the gear I'll need.

This is my current build:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?0550000000000000000005005131500001525215000500500000000000000000

I kept spiritual focus because it was useful for solo questing and the like but since that is a non-issue until the level cap is raised I was thinking about changing my spec to this:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?0500000000000000000005005133500001525215010520500000000000000000

I never got a chance to try Avenger's shield but since I am seeing so much about it I decided I would be best served to pick it up and see what it was capable of.

My main question is in the holy tree, should I keep divine intellect? (Cap's post did not include that and I've always really liked the added mana).

If not, where would I be better served putting it? I saw some other posts about SoV, but I am a BE and unfortunately do not have that ability so please do not include that in any responses since I can't use it.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read my post.

My current spec, which I think is the 'best':


http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?0000000000000000000005320133500021025215010523500000230000000000

8% more damage, to most things, Avengers Shield, Improved Retribution Aura, 3% crit to raid in the patch.


I left out Reckoning, because, sure, it is nice, but if you get parried from it at the wrong time, it can cost the boss or whatever you're tanking.

Link in sig to my Paly. Look at the spec, learn it, love it ;) That one point in Divine Intellect can really just be put anywhere, and I actually wish I had put it somewhere else cause the amount of mana it gives me as a tank, for one point, is absolutely pitiful. I will have to agree that not taking Reckoning is one of the worst ideas possible for a Prot build. I would think because of the chance to be Parried you'd be MORE likely to want it, not less likely.

The talents further than second tier of Ret are not needed, and imo, actually hurt a tank by taking them. You'll notice Mimickins' build leaves out Toughness, as well as Reckoning. That's 10% less armor, meaning less damage reduction (I don't know the exact %, and too tired too try and figure it out now >.>). For my Paladin that would result in losing about 1300 armor or so by leaving that talent out, which as far as armor goes, is like adding another set of legs (currently my piece of gear with the most armor, excluding shield).

And don't need to worry about Imp SotC either. I find it much more efficient to Judge Wisdom on my target when tanking to help keep my mana up than SotC as I almost never have trouble holding aggro. If you're undergeared from a spell damage standpoint then it might be wise to get this for some added threat and Judge it all the time, but with the target amount of spell damage (150-200) there shouldn't be any issues.

About Precision: I don't find myself needing it, don't know about anyone else. I just don't miss enough to see it worth spending 3 points that I can put into another talent. I don't have any hit rating, spell or melee, on my gear at all and it's been a non issue. I guess you can take it if you think you'll need it, but from my experience, it's 3 points that can be better served elsewhere.

EDIT: personally I put Precision with Weapon Expertise which has been established many times on this board as "useless". They do, fundamentally, the same thing: make you hit more often, and since so little of our threat comes from actually smacking the enemy with our weapon, you really shouldn't bother with it.

Edited, Sep 30th 2007 9:19am by Maulgak

I could take the points out of divine intel and I'll definitely cap spell warding, not sure where to stick the other points though.

Maulgak does make a good point about Precision though, so I dunno where I would stick the three other points where it could be most useful. I don't even have any +hit now that I think about my gear, accuracy has never been an issue for my melee hits. Does +hit become important later on?

For a Paly tank in Kara and Grull's you shouldn't need any Hit Raitng, at least I haven't, but beyond that I don't know for sure as I have not been there. If anyone that's tanked Mag and beyond as a Paladin knows for sure, please let us know ;)

Ok, sorry for the double post, but I'm just gonna have to check something here, make we are each on the same line.


Why, yes, I do understand that I get less armor from not having Toughness, That would still be about 1300 armor. It is about(Didnt calculate this, just threw on 861 armor Devotion aura which was about 2%) 4% of more mitigation, towards MELEE. If you ask me, I would rather take 1-Handed Weapon Specialization, because that gives me 5% more OVERALL threat.

Oh, and the reason for having 3 points in Improved JotC and Crusade, is because they are going to be changed, and I usually try to make out a build which I can keep for long time.


And, yes, I do understand the difference of not having Reckoning, and having it.



Sorry if I understood you wrong, english is not my native tongue, but didn't you say here that having Reckoning, increases the chance to get a Parry from a mob, and this is why I want it MORE?

No, I do not wish to be parried more, because Parry speeds up the next attack from the mob, it actually adds an attack to their attack speed pool.

Let's see this following scenario:

Ultimate Creature of Ultimate Doom hits you for 4000(350 blocked)
You reflect 26 Holy Damage to Ultimate Creature of Ultimate Doom
Jack's Holy Light heals you for 5000
Ultimate Creature of Ultimate Doom hits you for 4000(350 blocked)
Ultimate Creature of Ultimate Doom hits you for 4000(350 blocked)
You parry Ultimate Creature of Ultimate Doom's attack.
Ultimate Creature of Ultimate Doom hits you for 4000(350 blocked)
You die.


What if the parry happened due to you having more attacks from Reckoning? You just died to the boss, while I wouldn't maybe have because I don't have Reckoning, so there is less chance for the mob to Parry my attacks.


Oh, and for the record, I'm not trying to be the 'end-all, be-all' Protadin, just making sure you know all the facts.


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Sorry for WALL-O-TEXT and all the edits, I keep forgetting stuff


ZOMG-Another-EDIT!: Just pointing out that my build is still pointed to Hyjal Aoe Tanking, assuming I get the damn attunement this week. 8% Consecration + Retribution threat > Reckoning[aka one-target-threat] + 3% overall threat. IMO

Edited, Oct 1st 2007 2:47pm by Mimickins

Edited, Oct 1st 2007 2:50pm by Mimickins

Edited, Oct 1st 2007 3:11pm by Mimickins

Yes, you are 100% correct. But I still off-weight this all, by having the mob attack me faster, if that particular attack happens to kill me. It might be rare, but it still happens, and if it kills me, then the talent just cost me(and maybe the raid ) the boss/trash + repairs. [:sad:]

I left out Reckoning and Toughness, mainly because it allowed me to take more variety(?) in talents. And, I like to enhance my AoE-tanking side, since, that is where we excel.


And I feel that 8% more overall threat > 3% threat and 5% Reckoning threat on one target.

He meant the boss he is fighting parrying his attacks, not him parrying the bosses attacks. This can lead to a hit from the boss twice as fast as it normally would have come, so if every hit is taking you to almost death yet healers are bringing you back to full every time a quicker hit after a normal one will kill you.

Well Stoicism is nice cause less stuns = less times mobs running around while you are stunned killing your clothies. Guardians Favor can help to reduce the cooldown for times when you need it, like DPS in PuGs who don't know when to stop. Imp HoJ until you get into Kara/Heroics as most of the trash is not immune to it and it can come in handy if you need to stun a lot.

Just take your pick, those are essentially freebie talents you can put wherever, you already have all the essential tanking talents. Personally I would go 2 GF, 1 Stoicism or 1 GF 2 Stoicism

I can see where it would be nice soloing as Holy, but as Protection you won't need/want to use Concentration Aura so that would be a wasted point. Unless you bite off more then you can chew you won't even need to think about healing yourself much soloing as Prot, much less actually do it. Prot takes much less damage then Holy and Ret, so I really wouldn't bother with Imp Concentration Aura.

If you hate having talents that aren't maxed, go ahead and take Command. I kinda wish I did for various fights (like Shade of Aran in Kara) where I get to slap on the spell damage gear, whip out my trusty 2H and go at it. I don't know if the actual DPS output would be better or worse if I were to use Command over Vengeance/Righteousness, but being a Prot Paly, would it really matter that much? Plus, I really like the animation ;)

If not Command, do what Jack said, just pick one and throw it in there. Just, make sure it's in something you'll actually use (like I said above, if you're never gonna use Concentration Aura, don't put the point there).