I am recently 70 and finally getting to the point where I am developing a steady, repeatable playstyle that allows me to maximize DPS while minimizing aggro (what I deem to be my two jobs as a rogue - other than sapping).
I'd love to see any debates/discussions that some of the more experienced players find useful and informative. Key questions:
- Sequencing of special abilities
- When to use trinkets/BF/AR
- Which special abilities are used in unique situations
- When to use vanish/feint
- Best way to break away for self-healing if need be
- General tactics/techniques
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Combat rogue raid guide?Follow
Well, these are all very good questions, but the answers will vary widely based on your spec, your group composition and the encounter. I'll give you some general guidelines.
1. Combat Cycle. This is a term used to describe how Rogues use our CPs. For a Combat Sword Rogue, the cycle would be written as 2s/5r. this means you use SS until you get 2 CPs and use Slice and Dice. Afterwards, you SS until you have 5 CPs and Rupture. Rinse, lather, repeat. Once you get two pieces of T4 for the SnD bonus, that would change to 1s/5r. Combat Daggers will generally use 3s/5s/5r, or a slight variant.
2. Aggro management. In true raid situations, this generally isn't a problem. Idally, you should never feint, ever. It's a rather hefty energy cost for what little threat it does reduce (about 1k). Vanish should be used at around 70% boss health, or if you're getting too close to the tank before that and don't want to back off DPS because of an enrage timer (Gruul, for example). If you're having trouble getting to 70% before you Vanish, get a Pally to hit you with Salvation.
3. Cooldowns and Amps. Generally, you want to stack these for the greatest effect. Stacking haste effects multiplies, so if you get a few haste effects going, they'll multiply eachother, then adding other amps on top will scale more than normal because of the extra synergy with the stacked haste. When you use them will depend on the fight. You want to be able to use them as many times as possible. Getting a 5 minute cooldown off twice isn't uncommon. I generally pop my amps immediately after a Vanish so I can completely ignore my threat, and just focus on doing the most damage I can during this time. If you can communicate with your Shammy (if you have one) and get him/her to use Bloodlust with your amps as well, you'll be putting out some monster DPS.
1. Combat Cycle. This is a term used to describe how Rogues use our CPs. For a Combat Sword Rogue, the cycle would be written as 2s/5r. this means you use SS until you get 2 CPs and use Slice and Dice. Afterwards, you SS until you have 5 CPs and Rupture. Rinse, lather, repeat. Once you get two pieces of T4 for the SnD bonus, that would change to 1s/5r. Combat Daggers will generally use 3s/5s/5r, or a slight variant.
2. Aggro management. In true raid situations, this generally isn't a problem. Idally, you should never feint, ever. It's a rather hefty energy cost for what little threat it does reduce (about 1k). Vanish should be used at around 70% boss health, or if you're getting too close to the tank before that and don't want to back off DPS because of an enrage timer (Gruul, for example). If you're having trouble getting to 70% before you Vanish, get a Pally to hit you with Salvation.
3. Cooldowns and Amps. Generally, you want to stack these for the greatest effect. Stacking haste effects multiplies, so if you get a few haste effects going, they'll multiply eachother, then adding other amps on top will scale more than normal because of the extra synergy with the stacked haste. When you use them will depend on the fight. You want to be able to use them as many times as possible. Getting a 5 minute cooldown off twice isn't uncommon. I generally pop my amps immediately after a Vanish so I can completely ignore my threat, and just focus on doing the most damage I can during this time. If you can communicate with your Shammy (if you have one) and get him/her to use Bloodlust with your amps as well, you'll be putting out some monster DPS.
I've never raided as a rogue (mine being only level 54) but everything Nooble said sounds right. I have done 10-mans as an enhancement shammy and I can tell you I do whatever I can to get my amps off early with the hope of getting an extra use (especially on 2 minute trinkets) at the end of the fight.
As far as the timing of the Bloodlust from a shammy that will all depend on the fight. In an instance like Karazhan, certain bosses will have a certain time you want the shammy to use Bloodlust (and I would assume rogue abilities like Blade Flurry, Adrenaline Rush, or your trinkets). On Curator you would obviously want to use them during an evocation. On Prince you would want to save them for the 70% mark when he equips his axes so you can get past that stage as quickly as possible.
Edited because I completely forgot what level my rogue was.
Edited, Sep 28th 2007 10:06pm by Bigdaddyjug
As far as the timing of the Bloodlust from a shammy that will all depend on the fight. In an instance like Karazhan, certain bosses will have a certain time you want the shammy to use Bloodlust (and I would assume rogue abilities like Blade Flurry, Adrenaline Rush, or your trinkets). On Curator you would obviously want to use them during an evocation. On Prince you would want to save them for the 70% mark when he equips his axes so you can get past that stage as quickly as possible.
Edited because I completely forgot what level my rogue was.
Edited, Sep 28th 2007 10:06pm by Bigdaddyjug
The hardest part of raiding with a rogue is getting a raid spot.
crazyhtown wrote:
The hardest part of raiding with a rogue is getting a raid spot.
Not really. There are lots of rogues, but we usually top the DPS meters. By usually I mean an average rogue with an average 10 man group will probably leave him #1.
I've spent 17 hours trying to find a guild that needs melee dps. 32 guilds on 10 servers ....maybe i've just been unlucky. yes rogue tops dps, its also an overplayed class, you dont need to bring more than 2 to 25 man raids. I'm not saying rogue isn't needed, its just useally already filled.
ya your ability sequence depends on your spec AND your gear (perhaps you have the netherblade set bonus giving you a longer slice and dice). i typically use 3s/5r--of course adjustments to rupture are made based off of mob health--perhaps a substitution for eviscerate if he's really low. occasionally i'll lead off with a 1 or 2 pt slice and dice. just try and always have it up since you'll get more combat potency procs (and if you are sword spec, more additional attacks!).
if you want to be a contender for top dps in a raid, you better always have your trinkets on cooldown--i use 2 that give me additional attack power in raids so i have this option. makes for some very cheap attack power if you can remember to use them. what nooble said about stacking cd's and amps is very smart. stacking slice and dice and a trinket gives extra damage for every extra hit you make--i like waiting until the boss is firmly on the tank and using snd+blade flurry+trinket+adrenaline rush. then i just change my rotation so that i can quickly get off a 5pt rupture and a 5pt evisc, and then a small snd to get it back up and running again.
you shouldn't be taking too much damage and the only self healing you are going to be doing is healthstone potion most of the time. just avoid the damaging attacks associated with each raid boss and you should be ok--cave in's on gruul, and spout on lurker for instance.
if you want to be a contender for top dps in a raid, you better always have your trinkets on cooldown--i use 2 that give me additional attack power in raids so i have this option. makes for some very cheap attack power if you can remember to use them. what nooble said about stacking cd's and amps is very smart. stacking slice and dice and a trinket gives extra damage for every extra hit you make--i like waiting until the boss is firmly on the tank and using snd+blade flurry+trinket+adrenaline rush. then i just change my rotation so that i can quickly get off a 5pt rupture and a 5pt evisc, and then a small snd to get it back up and running again.
you shouldn't be taking too much damage and the only self healing you are going to be doing is healthstone potion most of the time. just avoid the damaging attacks associated with each raid boss and you should be ok--cave in's on gruul, and spout on lurker for instance.
Nooblestick wrote:
1. Combat Cycle. This is a term used to describe how Rogues use our CPs. For a Combat Sword Rogue, the cycle would be written as 2s/5r. this means you use SS until you get 2 CPs and use Slice and Dice. Afterwards, you SS until you have 5 CPs and Rupture. Rinse, lather, repeat. Once you get two pieces of T4 for the SnD bonus, that would change to 1s/5r. Combat Daggers will generally use 3s/5s/5r, or a slight variant.
Should I be using a different set of finishing moves for easier, non-elite mobs or is the 2s/5r rotation written in stone? I'm just looking for some elaboration on where and when this cycle is applicable. Thanks.
Edited, Oct 6th 2007 3:33pm by Timorith
Timorith wrote:
My combat swords rogue just hit 60 and I have a question with respect to the combat cycle: does it apply only to bosses? Are trash mobs in 5 man instances even going to live long enough for rupture to have its full effect?
Should I be using a different set of finishing moves for easier, non-elite mobs or is the 2s/5r rotation written in stone? I'm just looking for some elaboration on where and when this cycle is applicable. Thanks.
Should I be using a different set of finishing moves for easier, non-elite mobs or is the 2s/5r rotation written in stone? I'm just looking for some elaboration on where and when this cycle is applicable. Thanks.
If you are fighting trash, you can either do a 1pt SnD and just SS until you evis, or simply SS until you get a 5pt evis. I find that I rarely get a 5pt evis off on a trash mob, because they die so quickly (5 man dungeons).
The dps sequences mentioned pertain to long fights, where you can get a few cycles in.
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