Sucks to be Ret in 2.3!Follow

That was honestly one of the most ignorant posts towards raiding.




They raided in Pre-BC raids well enough. However, almost every raid in BC has been tuned to allow for every class since both sides have Paladins.



So your solution is that of all the other Paladins you could have in the raid, for a second Paladin slot a Retadin should be the solution, not just another healadin or even a tankadin.



That's exactly what it means!

If I have 0% threat Reduction.
Rogue has 29% threat reduction. Rogue Threat = Paladin Threat - 29%
Paladin gives himself salvation. Rogue Threat = Paladin Threat + 1%
Paladin gives Rogue salvation. Rogue Threat = Paladin Threat - 20%

Difference before and after is a whopping 9%, so Rogues are still ahead by 20%. If EVERYBODY has it, then everybody has it and you can't include it as the BASE threat reduction for yourself since you have to limit yourself almost as much as you did before you put it on everyone.

Under that argument I would bring an Arms/Fury Warrior or an Enhancement Shaman over a Rogue because they have an innate Damage Reduction as well, a Paladin coming into the mix isnt going to make Rogues obsolete, one of those classes would have already done that.

No one is saying Paladins have to be #1 on the Damage Chart, just want to be able to be even good enough to qualify as a potential dpser in the raid.

To explain my quote, you were saying that a Retadin could come into the raid to bring out extra blessings.

I was saying just bring another Holy Paladin or a Tankadin.

dont forget the dumps too.



right now rogues are the Ferrari F2007 of boss dmg, pallies are the Honda Oddysey. it would take a few rocket engines to get that minivan to win the F1. all i'm asking for is simple V8 or more leg room, ya know enough to get the family to the race at least to watch. as it stands now ret pallies cant even get out of the garage.

Well, that is just plain stupid. For everyone's information I *have* raided with a Retribution Paladin in Karazhan, Gruul's and SSC, and if your Holy Paladins arent casting Judgements for you to maintain then it is their fault you dont get selected. Judgement of Light and Wisdom alone are hugely helpful in a raid, giving low-wattage but *constant* heals to melee and mana to dps casters. Your Holydins certainly *should* be casting their Judgements at the start of the fight, even after Gruul's Shatter you have time to get back in their and CS them back to full duration. The fact is that for a paltry few hundred mana you can heal and refresh the entire DPS component of the raid, if you have a Retribution Paladin there to keep them ticking.

You mention that Shadowpriests can cause x amount of damage and recharge the healers, that is true, but they have to go Shadowform to do this; this sacrifices almost 100% of their healing capability. A Retribution Paladin, gear or no gear, can still pop off a heal or a Blessing of Protection (which during Cave-In at Gruul saves a lot of slow-*** casters), and this is *exactly* what you should be doing to be quite frank. There are always people with less than 100% health who the main healing rotation arent assigned to look after, and with a 40 yard heal range chances are you are in range of them to give them more breathing room.

I would agree that Retribution raiding is poor, leaving essentially only one spot open per raid, maybe two for a backup, but sadly that is the class design. Giving Paladins a 30% aggro dump would, as has been said above, render 'pure' DPS classes at a disadvantage; incidentally our guild frequently does choose Enhance Shamans over Rogues, specifically because they can cause solid DPS but also provide UR and buffs from their totems (and for a melee group, Windfury is a godsend, and if that's too risky there's Grace of Air). It is my belief that if we werent a guild of good friends, rogues would find it increasingly hard to get a look in, an Enhance Shaman (who also suffers badly from aggro-capping) with decent gear can be a real force in a melee group.

For the third time, I am not arguing that Retribution raid utility isnt up to much. Im saying, Im not particularly upset about that fact, as I rolled my Paladin for healing and tanking, not to be a wannabe MS Warrior with a shiny helmet.

~sins