Sucks to be Ret in 2.3!Follow

Warriors have threat reduction, moron. When we're in Battle or Berserker Stance we generate 80% threat.



[:dissapointed:]

No shit, sherlock.

Except that in raids, you have to be doing as much damage as possible. A lot of fights put strains on a tanks ability to hold aggro - fights like Morogrim Tidewalker, where the tank attacks much slower than normal, or Teron Gorefiend, where you _have_ to be attacking almost from the start of the fight or you'll get overwhelmed. Rogues, DPS Warriors, Enhancement Shaman and Feral Druids are all often pushing the threat cap - doing as much damage as possible, without going over the limit.

A Ret Paladin in such a position can't do _nearly_ as much damage as the other classes, becuase he has to - wait for it - stop attacking. If a Warrior is staying just under the tank's threat cap, a Paladin to do the same can do at MOST 80% of the Warrior's damage, becuase the Warrior has all that tasty additional threat reduction.

PS: If you pull aggro on a raid boss, even for a second, you're almost certainly going to die. Not only that, you have without a doubt killed every Rogue standing nearby as well when they all get Cleaved and got GG'd in their leather.

The guy quite obviously has no idea what he's talking about, so let's just instate the policy of rating him down and moving on without addressing his posts for the remainder of this thread's longevity. It's not even worth dignifying him with a response.

This may sound absolutely crazy, what if they used bubbles to help Rets with threat?

It has a 5 minute cooldown, same as soulshatter. What if it reduced agg by a 10% for every two seconds? Hell it could be a talent bonus to Divine shield, or they could make it standard.

Now they should leave Divine protection alone. Tanks could use it to break fear, while rets used Divine shield.

Or they could also give you 2 free seconds, than every 2 seconds beyond that it lowers threat by 10%. If you leave it on for the full 12 seconds you would get -50% threat.

Because that would make Paladins into a (close to) real melee DPS class, which Blizzard doesn't want to do...The class is designed to support others, and everything Blizz is likely to attempt will avoid that result.

As was stated, Prot and Holy Pally's have their well deserved places in raids, the only spec that's not accepted by good guilds is ret. Players want a threat dump that, to my knowledge, Blizzard is (rightly) refusing. If pally's were made into feasible self-contained DPS, Rogues would be even more obsolete than they are now. We need some type of Ret-exclusive raid utility...sanctity Aura is a joke, and soon the crit buff will be on every Healadin in the game: Something along the lines of (not a copy of) a Hunter's Ferocious inspiration would let us ride the threat line and add to the raid's DPS without breaking the class.

I understand what you're trying to say tommy.

However, one of the biggest selling points about MMO's has always been choices or options. If Blizzard was only concerned about filling roles then we'd probably only have four classes. One tank class, one damage-dealing class, one crowd-controlling class, and one healing class.

Having multiple classes able to fill the same role isn't a bad thing as long as all are (ideally) equally competitive at said role because it gives players a choice. Not everyone is concerned with effectiveness. Some people are more occupied with whether or not they enjoy doing X job as X class. For example, I love healing with my Shaman, but I find it to be the most boring task in the world with my Paladin. Thus, I roll a Shaman to heal instead of a Paladin. Can a Pally do it better? I think most people would probably argue so, but I could give a rat's ***.

In this respect, the Paladin is not a "wasted" class because our Protection tree and Holy tree both perform admirably at their designated role. Likewise, just because Paladin buffs can be substituted for something else doesn't mean they won't be missed if they're not there. I would always rather have any buff than not, and there's just no substitute for Salvation.

Even Retribution is not a "wasted" tree. It's just a bad tree because Blizzard is imposing an unfair double standard on it. Holy is not there to fill any kind of hybrid support role; it's there to main-heal, and nothing about that is stopping it from providing any of the support the class is capable of. Likewise, while Protection is often incapable as focusing on support as much as Holy, they can at the very least bless while, again, still carrying out their intended role of main-tanking. However, Blizzard seems to have decided that the Retribution tree alone will define Paladins as hybrids by forcing a limiter on them despite the fact that there is absolutely no place for hybrids in the tunnel vision of raiding environments.

wow, G pretty much put this mini-argument in a nice package. while i agree with all thats being said, i still am more peeved that paladins(namely ret) get forced into a concentrated roll even with the claim that they are intended as "hybrid" or "support". then when trying to focus on dps they get lost in the limbo between support and moderate dmg...neither of which is adaquate.

if they truly wanted support+dmg they would give pallies some CC, some better instant aggro dumpers for party, some better on the fly buffs(seals are weaksauce), some hots. how bout an "innervate", how bout a 20 repentance(10s in pvp), how bout a +dmg seal, how bout a "misdirect". the only support ret gives atm is a nice /golfclap. the max dmg i've ever put out in pve is 550dps threat limited. why cant ret at least be a spec that is stat limited?

maybe i'll finish leveling my drood and pump out the dps while tanking and healing myself at the same time. but alas, paladin is bound to a concept and cannot evolve past that due to The Creator.

It's not our fault ret sucks. We're just calling it as we see it.

I dunno why you are saying that, just cause there is a discussion it doesn't mean people have bad attitudes.

Hardnotes had a bad attitude and started attacking people, that was stupid of him and he was shunned for it, that was about it.

Just people venting their frustrations, and it does suck that Paladins have a whole tree that can't really be used anywhere emd-game.

Maybe "we give the food from our mouth", when we put BoS on others, Blizzard surely take BoS in consideration why shouln't we.