Sucks to be Ret in 2.3! :: Free Realms

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#1 Sep 26 2007 at 6:36 PM Rating: Default

bodhisattva

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Drysc wrote:

It's been a while since I've asked, but I don't believe any sweeping Spirit based changes are planned for 2.3. I'll have to check. They're still planned, but I believe it's for a patch after 2.3.
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Drysc on Retribution buffs.

Drysc wrote:

Well along with a few other Ret changes we're putting the benefits of Improved Seal of the Crusader right into the base spell, and the talent will instead give the benefit of Sanctified Crusader. That of course means Sanctified Crusader needs something else, and it's being renamed Sanctified Seals, which will increase your change to critically hit will all spells and melee by 1/2/3% and reduces the chance your Seals can be dispelled by 33/66/100%

Drysc on another Ret change and mana reduction on Exorcism, Holy Wrath and Hammer of Wrath.

Drysc wrote:

We're pretty much focused on Retribution with 2.3, but some more general changes are being made like lowering the mana cost for Exorcism, Holy Wrath, and Hammer of Wrath.

Another Ret change (just to keep the momentum going) will be an increase to the duration of Vengeance to 30 seconds.

Crusader Strike cooldown reduced to 6 seconds.

comon blue guys give us some teasers! Cursader strike cool down lowered to 6?

Drysc wrote:

You're amazing, that's absolutely correct.

http://www.curse.com/articles/details/3199/

Buffs, nice buffs! However the main reason for bringing a ret pally to a raid (3% crit wide) can now be brought by a Prot or Holy Paladin. Also no attention given to threat.

Then you look at a Enchancement Shammy who gets their threat reduction increased from 15% to 30%.

Edited, Sep 26th 2007 10:37pm by bodhisattva

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#2 Sep 26 2007 at 7:03 PM Rating: Decent

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lol. i read this a few weeks back. the lead-in was "we want to make pallies more viable in pve without affecting pvp".

that sounded perfect. until you read down and got just the opposite.
1. better SotC - pvp/more pve
2. non-disspellable seals - pvp
3. mana reduction - pvp/pve
4. +vengeance(which is fine the way it is) - mostly pvp
5. CS cd - omg pvp/not bad pve
6. no threat reduction - wtf is the point of all the rest for pve

i smell a pvp Nerf soon after release.

all i ask, very simply, 1 talent, i dont care which tree or which tier, that lowers Threat from Holy dmg dealt by each point spent. can be -5/10/15% or -10/20/30%, put it right on tier 3 in place of Vindigaytion. 30% reduction to Holy dmg is potentially 15% more dps in PvE ONLY and wont affect healers. done.

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#3 bodhisattva, Posted: Sep 26 2007 at 8:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) On an up note I will get 1/3 spell damage from my healing gear. Which means I should be sitting at +600 spell damage when 2.3 comes out. I can then shard my spell damage set /cheer.

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#4 Sep 26 2007 at 10:36 PM Rating: Good

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Archfiend bodhisattva wrote:

On an up note I will get 1/3 spell damage from my healing gear. Which means I should be sitting at +600 spell damage when 2.3 comes out. I can then shard my spell damage set /cheer.

My spell damage set will still have more damage than my healing set, but at least I can wear my goggles all the time now. Smiley: grin

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#5 Sep 26 2007 at 10:57 PM Rating: Decent

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tommyguns wrote:

lol. i read this a few weeks back. the lead-in was "we want to make pallies more viable in pve without affecting pvp".

that sounded perfect. until you read down and got just the opposite.

I try to have faith in Blizzard. I really do. It's not that I'm a fanboy. I just understand that managing this game is far more complex than any of us will ever give them credit for.

But... I mean... you can't just... it's... /sigh.

Until they address Retribution Paladin threat we are never going to be a viable DPS source in any PvE situation. It wouldn't matter if they boosted our damage to the moon, if we can't use that damage then it does us absolutely no good.

tommy's right. They pretty much did the exact opposite of what they supposedly set out to do. I really just can not understand how this has escaped them for so long.

Edited, Sep 27th 2007 8:05pm by Gaudion

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#6 bodhisattva, Posted: Sep 27 2007 at 6:13 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) They did make the dps a little less spiky for long fights. Vengeance duration being longer is nice for keeping it stacked at all times, CS cool down will help as well. Another 3% crit will be nifty as well. Hopefully damage will start to be decent on those 10+ min long fights.

#7 bodhisattva, Posted: Sep 27 2007 at 6:34 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Oh and before any Ret pallies decide to start a Crusade for threat reducers Kalgan has already put the proverbial 'foot down'

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#8 Sep 27 2007 at 6:54 AM Rating: Decent

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Be careful if you're asking for threat reduction on holy abilities. While that may be nice for ret/holy, think about what it would do to you if you're filling in as tank.

Maybe something along the lines of a reverse righteous fury would be better than a passive reduction in threat.

Edited, Sep 27th 2007 7:55am by skribs

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#9 Sep 27 2007 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent

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Be careful if you're asking for threat reduction on holy abilities. While that may be nice for ret/holy, think about what it would do to you if you're filling in as tank.

Maybe something along the lines of a reverse righteous fury would be better than a passive reduction in threat.

I think most of us have been very clear about that. From day one we have been wanting some sort of spell that reduces threat. Most of use are even willing to give up some healing abilities, similar to a shadow priest in shadow form.

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#10 Sep 27 2007 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent

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skribs wrote:

Maybe something along the lines of a reverse righteous fury would be better than a passive reduction in threat.

That's, uh... pretty much exactly what we've been asking for here for months. How could you have missed that?

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#11 Sep 27 2007 at 3:42 PM Rating: Decent

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hyrbid role

and

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provide much value to a party

i have been enlightened! pallies weren't meant to dps. they were meant as AH bank alts...hence the Hyrbid(read higher bid). so next time someone goes OOM(out of money) bring in the Hyrbid Pally FTV(for the value).

WTB a spell check for the blues, pst

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#12 REDACTED, Posted: Sep 27 2007 at 4:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You know what?

#13 bodhisattva, Posted: Sep 27 2007 at 7:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well I am still capping heal meters, and I love having two Pally tanks for Tidewalker.

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#14 Sep 28 2007 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent

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pallies wear plate, shaman do not :)

playing devils advocate here. I play all classes including pally. but I can sneeze and pull aggro with my shaman. Takes a good warrior to hold aggro. One reason I made up my mind that restoration was the way to go (dps shaman aren't in high demand anyways because of lack of cc- at least not in 5 mans)

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#15 Sep 28 2007 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent

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thrashering wrote:

pallies wear plate, shaman do not :)

playing devils advocate here. I play all classes including pally. but I can sneeze and pull aggro with my shaman. Takes a good warrior to hold aggro. One reason I made up my mind that restoration was the way to go (dps shaman aren't in high demand anyways because of lack of cc- at least not in 5 mans)

What is your point, exactly, relative to the discussion at hand?

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#16 Sep 28 2007 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent

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Then you look at a Enchancement Shammy who gets their threat reduction increased from 15% to 30%.

Probably referring to this from Bod, though it was still not a very well written post.

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#17 bodhisattva, Posted: Sep 28 2007 at 1:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Plate / Mail makes no difference at end game.

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#18 Sep 28 2007 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent

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imagine this for a moment:
"the +Spirit fix" what if it had an effect on +/-threat :O

or if pallies had a talent reducing threat based on %spirit. kill two birds with one crit.

i remember posting here a few weeks back about using AW in groups and many tankadins replied they often dont use because they dont need it. which is BS. you dont need it but your dps would like you to use it. i have yet to go all out on my Ret Pally or Frost Mage in any group due to aggro management(and i have all the aggro reducing i can afford atm)

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#19 bodhisattva, Posted: Sep 28 2007 at 7:23 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Things look grim Tommy.

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#20 Sep 29 2007 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent

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We're happy with the amount of damage a Retribution can do before being threat capped, and we are glad that players focussed purely on damage are able to hit the cap. We will be making some changes to Retribution so that they fulfill a more hyrbid role, and as such should not normally reach that threat cap, but still provide much value to a party and/or raid (e.g spot heals that are worth casting)."

.... I don't know if I should start swearing or start crying in a corner, that is the single most clueless thing I heard next to the 'leveling/question build' crap kalgan said.
(swear swear swear swear)Spot heals are NEVER worth casting as retribution, you need that valuable mana for dps'ing.A hybrid specced for task A should never not have a fix based on 'what;s the problem? then you can do B in the meantime'

******* tard, healing creates aggro to clueless gits and makes you oom as retribution with 6k mana before you can say 'crusaders' strike on a 6 sec cooldown makes paladins more mana dependant'.

They are not only spamming clueless posts but they are also not keeping their promesses. Fixing retribution is soo easy that even a little kid can do it....

Things look grim, really grim.

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#21 REDACTED, Posted: Sep 29 2007 at 12:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Blessing of Salvation

#22 bodhisattva, Posted: Sep 29 2007 at 12:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You are so far removed from the actual context of the problem that you contribute nothing to the discussion.

#23 REDACTED, Posted: Sep 29 2007 at 12:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) and here is where the ****** part came from in retardin. PALLIES ARE NOT DPS CLASS. dream as you might, we just are not dps classes.

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#24 Sep 29 2007 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good

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Hardnotes wrote:

do you hear arms/furry warriors crying about needing an agro reducer? no, because they have come to the realization of what they are.

Ummm, don't Warriors get passive threat reduction in some of their DPS stances? >.>

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#25 Sep 29 2007 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good

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Hardnotes wrote:

(btw, you do have bubble, thats and agro reducer)

No it's not.

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#26 Sep 29 2007 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good

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and here is where the ****** part came from in retardin. PALLIES ARE NOT DPS CLASS. dream as you might, we just are not dps classes.

Not to metion, we wear plate!!!! they gave the cloth and leather wearers threat reduction cause they CANT take a hit. Guess what plate wearing baffoon who thinks he's a dps class, Plate wearers take the hits, thats why you have plate.

do you hear arms/furry warriors crying about needing an agro reducer? no, because they have come to the realization of what they are.

All you are is a QQ'ing punk that give pallies bad names. Play what you're given. if ya don't like the parameters of the character/game you play, go play a rogue or hunter. Or better yet go play FFX or everquest and QQ to them.

(btw, you do have bubble, thats and agro reducer)

You are so clueless it's not even funny, what level is your paladin mate? If you get aggro from a raidboss you WILL get oneshot, regardless of having plate or cloth.

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Sucks to be Ret in 2.3!Follow