I'm not sure if this has been posted before but i'll like to know which has a better hand in pve and pvp.
Today i witnessed my mate, a warrior getting owned in arena by a druid.
But i've seen people saying warriors are much fun to play and are also able to block. Which is a definite thumbs up for raids. And druids have high dodge rating, But however are not as good tanks as warrior.
So yea, help?
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Druid vs Warrior?Follow
Is this a druid vs warrior in PvP argument? Or is this a druid vs warrior in raids argument? Theres alot to consider either way, mind narrowing it down?
Scholar
37 posts
A well played Warrior can kill any Druid in PvP, and a well played Druid can kill any Warrior in PvP. Really, in my experience, it's a battle of speed and quick judgement (and of course gear).
Now, for tanking, Warrior are the clear winners, since they have *much* more aggro gaining abilities then bear mode druids. Plus, warriors they can take a much heavier beating. Not saying Druids are bad, just that warriors are simply better.
For solo play, Druids are better. They can kill things with cat mode, switch out and heal in a matter of seconds, and if things get hairy, turn to bear mode or travel form out. Warriors lack many "OH SH-" buttons other classes have, so we're stuck with health potions, one of our three linked 30 min CD's, or AoE fear. We know quickly when we're outclassed in a fight, and if running looks iffy, all we can really do hope we get some nice crits, or the mob misses a lot. Or, we can always curl up into a nice little ball and wait to be killed.
So, it's really a toss up IMO.
Edited, Sep 26th 2007 11:31am by Dradniless
Now, for tanking, Warrior are the clear winners, since they have *much* more aggro gaining abilities then bear mode druids. Plus, warriors they can take a much heavier beating. Not saying Druids are bad, just that warriors are simply better.
For solo play, Druids are better. They can kill things with cat mode, switch out and heal in a matter of seconds, and if things get hairy, turn to bear mode or travel form out. Warriors lack many "OH SH-" buttons other classes have, so we're stuck with health potions, one of our three linked 30 min CD's, or AoE fear. We know quickly when we're outclassed in a fight, and if running looks iffy, all we can really do hope we get some nice crits, or the mob misses a lot. Or, we can always curl up into a nice little ball and wait to be killed.
So, it's really a toss up IMO.
Edited, Sep 26th 2007 11:31am by Dradniless
My expirence with PVP;
If a Moonkin Druid can kite effectivly they can be a problem to Warriors (my toughest). The few hits we get in before roots, or shapeshift won't take off the chunks of health were used to when pairing up agenst casters. But if they get the jump on us before charge range, have the mana pool to moonfire spam, and root us after intercept... we can still win, but it'll take some very good gear/tactics to do so. They tend to like to, shift from Moonkin -> HOT themselves -> Travelform -> run ahead (or away) and go back to moonkin for nukes. Getting a root off from time-to-time. If a warrior can get a charge in, then it seems to be in the Warriors advantage. Plus keeping Hamstring on them is a huge deciding factor.
Cat Druids = not much of a problem. Just be ready to shift into Berzerker for Pummel (or Def. for shield bash) when they "think" there going to get a heal off. If you can stop there first try at a heal, then you should be able to win by a good margin. HOTs are normaly not enough to keep them up agenst a MS warrior. If a warrior gets owned by a Cat Druid I would suspect it's gear related.
Bear Druid = Tougher than Cat IMO, if played right they can last awhile (bash - heal, frenzied regen), but if they slip up once & get stopped from there heal, it's normaly over. I like to keep Hamstring on them & run off to burn there charge and for the Second Wind buff, or let thier Frenzied Regen run it's course without adding rage. Then repeat to reset my Charge for even more rage. Once I have enough rage I can Intercpt any non-stuned heals & burst damage (exicute, MS, WW, ect).
Kz
If a Moonkin Druid can kite effectivly they can be a problem to Warriors (my toughest). The few hits we get in before roots, or shapeshift won't take off the chunks of health were used to when pairing up agenst casters. But if they get the jump on us before charge range, have the mana pool to moonfire spam, and root us after intercept... we can still win, but it'll take some very good gear/tactics to do so. They tend to like to, shift from Moonkin -> HOT themselves -> Travelform -> run ahead (or away) and go back to moonkin for nukes. Getting a root off from time-to-time. If a warrior can get a charge in, then it seems to be in the Warriors advantage. Plus keeping Hamstring on them is a huge deciding factor.
Cat Druids = not much of a problem. Just be ready to shift into Berzerker for Pummel (or Def. for shield bash) when they "think" there going to get a heal off. If you can stop there first try at a heal, then you should be able to win by a good margin. HOTs are normaly not enough to keep them up agenst a MS warrior. If a warrior gets owned by a Cat Druid I would suspect it's gear related.
Bear Druid = Tougher than Cat IMO, if played right they can last awhile (bash - heal, frenzied regen), but if they slip up once & get stopped from there heal, it's normaly over. I like to keep Hamstring on them & run off to burn there charge and for the Second Wind buff, or let thier Frenzied Regen run it's course without adding rage. Then repeat to reset my Charge for even more rage. Once I have enough rage I can Intercpt any non-stuned heals & burst damage (exicute, MS, WW, ect).
Kz
for pvp, warriors will usually lose until they start getting geared out, where they will melt the druids face no matter what form they're in.
for pve, warriors are better for boss fights because it's much much much easier for them to push crushing blows off the table for us. Because of this, druids have a much higher health pool and armor usually.
also in conjunction with what I just said, warriors are much better to MT new content because of shield wall and last stand abilities; this will give the raid a lot more breathing room, and if you're 2% from downing illidan, a well time shield wall may let you kill him... where a druid would just die a horrible death :)
However, druids are much better off tanks, they can hold secondary aggro much better than another warrior because if you're not getting hit in prot gear, you're not going to have any rage to deal with at all. While you're sitting there rage starved and unable to do your #2 most threat causing move (revenge), a druid will just chill there and stack up more and more threat over you.
as far as dps goes, that is again based on gear. When warriors start to get some solid items they will do much better in dps. Remember that warriors are THE MOST GEAR DEPENDENT class ever, but to balance this out we scale with gear exponentially rather than linearly as most other classes do.
for pve, warriors are better for boss fights because it's much much much easier for them to push crushing blows off the table for us. Because of this, druids have a much higher health pool and armor usually.
also in conjunction with what I just said, warriors are much better to MT new content because of shield wall and last stand abilities; this will give the raid a lot more breathing room, and if you're 2% from downing illidan, a well time shield wall may let you kill him... where a druid would just die a horrible death :)
However, druids are much better off tanks, they can hold secondary aggro much better than another warrior because if you're not getting hit in prot gear, you're not going to have any rage to deal with at all. While you're sitting there rage starved and unable to do your #2 most threat causing move (revenge), a druid will just chill there and stack up more and more threat over you.
as far as dps goes, that is again based on gear. When warriors start to get some solid items they will do much better in dps. Remember that warriors are THE MOST GEAR DEPENDENT class ever, but to balance this out we scale with gear exponentially rather than linearly as most other classes do.
Scholar
36 posts
Errmmm... I've got to disagree with you there russki. My warrior is MS, pretty damn well geared if I do say so myself. And against a well geared bear form druid, my damage is cut in half... literally. No more 2300 crits, I'll be lucky to get a 1.5. All while they can stun, charge (with immobilize) and because I'm hitting them (aka rage gen), use pretty powerful moves against me. I may not be the best geared, but I'm damn well good geared. And it's not a matter of "skill" because even if im teh leet hax i wont be hitting for over 9000...
Boomkin just blow my face of and cat's can be a pain if they run around alot. I just loathe druids in general for the sake that they can switch their forms willy nilly and just root and run, or cyclone if i resist, its a joke really.
Refering to the bear though, I will admit it was against one of the best geared bear druids I know, but that's not the point. Fact is, they can bring my health down, not terrifically slowly at that, and still have the damage reduction, avoidance, and health of a tank. It's more then just outlasting, it's that they can do some not to shabby damage in tank mode.
If you can beat them, thumbs up to you, but when my damage is cut in half and they have double my health, it's just... bleh.
Edited, Oct 1st 2007 2:13pm by JBoyOwnz
Boomkin just blow my face of and cat's can be a pain if they run around alot. I just loathe druids in general for the sake that they can switch their forms willy nilly and just root and run, or cyclone if i resist, its a joke really.
Refering to the bear though, I will admit it was against one of the best geared bear druids I know, but that's not the point. Fact is, they can bring my health down, not terrifically slowly at that, and still have the damage reduction, avoidance, and health of a tank. It's more then just outlasting, it's that they can do some not to shabby damage in tank mode.
If you can beat them, thumbs up to you, but when my damage is cut in half and they have double my health, it's just... bleh.
Edited, Oct 1st 2007 2:13pm by JBoyOwnz
In PvE, druids are also faster tanks. Since they primarily deal aggro with damage, while warriors use threat abilities, a druid can usually clear easier content faster. Therefore, once you're on farm status in an instance, druids make for quicker runs. Of course, that's assuming paladins aren't in the equation, as paladins are the king of AoE tanking, and if you have content that the paladin is a few stages above (i.e. tier 5 pally tanking a 10-man) then you will have some very fast runs.
Warriors, on the other hand, are the best for tanking bosses. They have more single-target threat generation than paladins, and are capable of throwing crushing blows off the table. As mentioned earlier druids are good off-tanks due to being able to (somewhat) DPS in tank stance.
While levelling, druids will have an easier time in solo, whereas warriors will have an easier time tanking. Low level druids lack abilities to quickly gain rage, and if you have incompetent DPS you will end up with 3-4 people having aggro, and only be able to taunt one back to yourself. Warriors, on the other hand, are able to gain rage faster via charge and bloodrage, and can use TC to get targets on him quick. While warriors lack those solo "Oh sugar" buttons, they have a ton of those to use in groups.
Also consider that since a druid can heal, you may be expected to in groups. WHile it is great to contribute, sometimes rolling a druid so you can tank and then being main healer every run can be a pain (I had the opposite problem on my druid that I made to escape my warrior).
Solo - Druid > Warrior
Low-Level Group - Warrior > Druid
End-game Group - Druid =/= Warrior
PvP - Druid = Warrior (there's always rock-paper-scissors in effect)
Warriors, on the other hand, are the best for tanking bosses. They have more single-target threat generation than paladins, and are capable of throwing crushing blows off the table. As mentioned earlier druids are good off-tanks due to being able to (somewhat) DPS in tank stance.
While levelling, druids will have an easier time in solo, whereas warriors will have an easier time tanking. Low level druids lack abilities to quickly gain rage, and if you have incompetent DPS you will end up with 3-4 people having aggro, and only be able to taunt one back to yourself. Warriors, on the other hand, are able to gain rage faster via charge and bloodrage, and can use TC to get targets on him quick. While warriors lack those solo "Oh sugar" buttons, they have a ton of those to use in groups.
Also consider that since a druid can heal, you may be expected to in groups. WHile it is great to contribute, sometimes rolling a druid so you can tank and then being main healer every run can be a pain (I had the opposite problem on my druid that I made to escape my warrior).
Solo - Druid > Warrior
Low-Level Group - Warrior > Druid
End-game Group - Druid =/= Warrior
PvP - Druid = Warrior (there's always rock-paper-scissors in effect)
ill only speak to the pvp portion of the question here.
my experience as a druid and warrior tells me that no druid should lose to an equally geared warrior. ever. a class that can root on demand, heal itself, and break any kind of snare effect without even trying can outdo a non-healing melee class that's vulnerable to magic damage (as all warriors are).
my experience as a druid and warrior tells me that no druid should lose to an equally geared warrior. ever. a class that can root on demand, heal itself, and break any kind of snare effect without even trying can outdo a non-healing melee class that's vulnerable to magic damage (as all warriors are).
Also consider that the pounce/mangle/shred(if ooc extra shred)/rip combo puts a **** load of bleed dmg on the warrior then they just sit in bear and watch your hp drip away.
If you break the stun with trinket you will get natures grasped down while they walk away throw a nuke or two on you then go to bear fight with you awhile then bash/heal/bear fight some more. Equally geared and well played as quor said druids should never lose to warriors in 1v1.
If you break the stun with trinket you will get natures grasped down while they walk away throw a nuke or two on you then go to bear fight with you awhile then bash/heal/bear fight some more. Equally geared and well played as quor said druids should never lose to warriors in 1v1.
Moonkins are the only ones i have problems with. High armor and high magic damage. Fighting bear druids is slow going, but they are pretty easy. I usually get out of range so they charge me and proc second wind. It usually out heals their dps lol And Cat forms are cake. They dodge a lot so i got plenty of overpowers and they have little armor.
This is why I make the point of "well played" druids. Any druid who stays in one form isn't doing anywhere close to their full potential.
stance dance = shift dance
good warriors and good druids require this. especially in pvp.
druids get enough armor and hp to negate crushing blows effects for the most part. They lack itemization, and several of their skills are backwards for tanking.
They have problems also with rage generation in late game. They stack dodge (agility) so much they don't get hit for long streaks, and their auto attack is weak if they are stacking for avoidance and mitigation. Warrior tanks have the same problem (low AP and auto-attack) but get hit a lot more often, and have better rage generation because of it.
Druids have some very specific gear they require to be efficient tanks, while warriors get many options to chose from; pali's and warrior wear plate, which usually means warriors have more options (pali's get more options as well) than druids. And as for agro, druids (when they have rage) do indeed usually have a higher TPS than warriors, but they usually have to sacrifice to get it their.
Warrior skills for tanking are positive forward thinking skills for the most part. Druids have a few that are ... awkward. Frenzied regeneration for instance, not a lot of hp, but huge rage dump. Enrage is like bloodrage but worse...
As for PvP.
Warriors get owned by many classes, the warrior class requires some tact and skill. Some classes have it very easy for PvP (I can think of rogues, locks and hunters being some easy pvp classes).
Druids being a hybrid, means that while they can do as good as a specific class of that type, this also means that when they go deep enough into that tree they are locked into doing just that tree well, and the others not so well. This also means that mid fight, without a combat drop they can't change gear to heal or dps.
Warriors have it easier in PvP. Albeit not easiest.
good warriors and good druids require this. especially in pvp.
druids get enough armor and hp to negate crushing blows effects for the most part. They lack itemization, and several of their skills are backwards for tanking.
They have problems also with rage generation in late game. They stack dodge (agility) so much they don't get hit for long streaks, and their auto attack is weak if they are stacking for avoidance and mitigation. Warrior tanks have the same problem (low AP and auto-attack) but get hit a lot more often, and have better rage generation because of it.
Druids have some very specific gear they require to be efficient tanks, while warriors get many options to chose from; pali's and warrior wear plate, which usually means warriors have more options (pali's get more options as well) than druids. And as for agro, druids (when they have rage) do indeed usually have a higher TPS than warriors, but they usually have to sacrifice to get it their.
Warrior skills for tanking are positive forward thinking skills for the most part. Druids have a few that are ... awkward. Frenzied regeneration for instance, not a lot of hp, but huge rage dump. Enrage is like bloodrage but worse...
As for PvP.
Warriors get owned by many classes, the warrior class requires some tact and skill. Some classes have it very easy for PvP (I can think of rogues, locks and hunters being some easy pvp classes).
Druids being a hybrid, means that while they can do as good as a specific class of that type, this also means that when they go deep enough into that tree they are locked into doing just that tree well, and the others not so well. This also means that mid fight, without a combat drop they can't change gear to heal or dps.
Warriors have it easier in PvP. Albeit not easiest.
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