people against pally tankingFollow

How many pally tanks out there are exiled from parties and guilds because of what they are...prot. i think this is a very lame and stupid reason because not many people can understand what a GOOD prot pally is capable of. first off, we are able to hold threat, we cannot hold threat against a SINGLE target near as good as a druid or war can. but we can still hold it enough so that it is never pulled from us. especially if that enemy duel wields. i have been constantly told no i cannot go into any instance and that i should respec holy. let me tell you...how many people out there have ran a 45 min SH or an hour SL? unlike druids and wars pallys do not need CC, the only thing i ask for in my instances is for anyone who can aoe to use it...yes that includes warlocks seeds (should hear the arugments on that one). and for mages to cast counterspell on a caster standing far away. i am able to tank 7 - 12 elites at a time and hold them on me with a decent healer (with my current gear. this number will increase). people that say we cannot take damage for some awkward reason. first off...we wear plate, second off we have a VERY high block chance with our holy shield on, we also gain additional 30% block value from our shield. furthermore we have a 80 damage reduction bless. along with our rightous fury which takes away another 6% of all damage taken (combined with spell warding we gain -10% spell damage taken). i have tanked instances with mages, locks, boomkins, and shadow priests, of all sorts in epics. and i have generally forgot to put up salv on them many of times. but even then i very rarely IF EVER have threat pulled off me. but you know what, thats not a problem considering a pally tank DOES have taunts. able to taunt 3 targets off one party member makes that the best taunt in this game. yes...pallies do have to rely on mana. but this is also why i dont use CC. when im taking damage i get healed...when im healed i gain 10% of the heals back to me in mana. so saying im tanking 8 people in SH...i can go all out burn complete mana and still come out 75% mana on my bar while the healers in the back laughing saying how little damage i take. i am not saying anything bad about druids or wars. but i am saying not to leave the pallies out. MANY MANY MANY do not know how to play one correctly, they take advice from wars and druids on tanking and that causes problems because we play very diffrently from them, spells are our power, if you want to know if a pally can keep aggro from you ask them there spell damage, if its over 330...youve got yourself a good pally if he's got also around 10K hp that can hold epiced peoples threat. and im doubting heavily that unless you try..and try hard, you wont pull aggro from him if done right. if you have any comments or disagreements with this send a comment. ask me if theres something i cant tank. or try and tell me that i will never be able to tank certian enemies and i will tell you a solution of how to. thx

Ultimer lvl 70 prot pally. Duskwood Server.(also have a 70 Lock)
proud member of renaissance

Well wow, I don't know what prompted this, if you're going to rant, I don't know why you would do it in a forum where everyone will agree with you (for the most part). Also, wall of text posts are not a good way to start, try using that "Enter" key once in a while.

Having said that, there are a few nuances that I think could use clarifying:



That's not really true, a Paladin with a good group that knows what they are doing can and will put out a ton more threat than you are giving credit for. Single target threat can be substantial enough, and AOE threat is more than substantial. The only disadvantage a Paladin has towards Warriors/Druids is damage mitigation/health and mana reliance.



30% is not VERY high, its a good amount. 75% is VERY high and that's what Warriors get. You do not automatically gain that extra 30% either, and most do not even calculate it in their avoidance percentage as it is not up all the time. Once you are better geared, most of that block percentage falls off the table anyway.

The 80 DR does not matter much as it is applied before Damage Reduction from armor, so a mob that hits for 4000 before mitigation will now hit for 3920 before mitigation with it up.



While a good amount of credit does go to you for that, a lot of it is also the dpser. At almost any point in time, a dpser can grab threat if they REALLY want to, however they hold back in order to ensure that the tank is the one getting pounded on. How much threat the Paladin generates therefore dictates how much the dps can loosen their sleeves, which is why BoSalv is so essential for dps classes.



330 spell damage is overkill unless you are tanking in say Tempest Keep. I currently tank with less than 200 (161, 200 is the recommended amount if you are not Main Tanking T4 raid instances or higher) and have had the same experiences as you. Those points spent in spell damage are probably better spent on stamina or avoidance stats.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Duskwood&n=Ultimer

Pallies tank all 5 man and heroics just fine. There are a few mana burn encounters where they fail but really it isn't enough to be a problem.

a)In Karazahn they flat out excel. The mobs are all undead. If not a main tank it is advisable to have a Pally Off tank.

b)Gruuls hurts for a Prot Pally. It can be done, but intercept/charge is a big part of tanking Gruul.

c)Mag. You need a bunch of tanks for the summoners and it really isn't a DPS fight so a Prot pally is great to have for Summoners.

d)SSC. Prot Pallies make Tidewalker a joke, in fact I wouldn't want to think about doing him without a prot pally or two. They are good on trash and work for Leo as well, we are also attempting to use em on Kalathress.

Any raiding guild worth its salt should have a Prot pally or two in its line up.

first guy's right, after reading half of this I :

-felt dizzy
-saw lines when i closed my eyes
-got a headache
-left, and didn't go back on the computer for a couple of hours.

Wall of text crits you for 56243!
You Die!

Edited, Sep 25th 2007 5:10am by SunSoarer

No one knows how true that first line is as much as I do me-thinks ;)

And while I agree with what the OP is trying to say, I will also agree here that the number of people who reject the idea of a Paladin in a tanking role is dwindling down. More and more I'm also seeing people rejoice when they see a Paladin in a tank role: whether it be a Warlock prejudice against using their Succubus, Hunters tired of TC breaking their traps yet not doing enough to keep threat on the caster of said move, or just people who want the instance to run faster.

Not to mention the growing number (at least from what I've seen) of Warriors that go Arms or Fury so they can spout leet DPS and do some BGs/Arena. This saves them from doing a respec just to go to an instance, then respeccing to do soem PvP.

I hate healing Paladin tanks. To date, I have only had 1 out of 10 Paladins that I didn't want to just let die and not res. Mostly because their inability to position themselves correctly so their Consecrate did not break CC'd mobs. I don't know what it is, maybe it's the low pop server I'm on, or it might just be the server Blizzard sends all the tankatards too. I have no idea, but for the love of Bob, please don't let me see another Paladin tank!

Now, to be fair, I've had some pretty cruddy Warrior tanks too. I guess it's just the man behind the toon that makes a good tank, a good tank. But in my experience so far, well, I've said it.

Well some do need the CC cause they cant take the hit from 15 mobs at once, which is probably what the above poster was referring to. If I know I'm over my head (heroics) I opt for cc and I do position my consecrate so as not to break cc. However, duhmee, Paladin tanking is geared towards multi-mobs so you have to be prepared for that as a healer. Fortunately, if the Paladin is a good tank you don't have to worry about healing anyone else nearly as much, as they should be holding good enough aggro on every target.

This assumes, of course, that you don't have one of those "I'm gonna keep the mob stunned and get instasplatted when it comes out" rogues in your group.

Yeah, but it happens often enough that it deserved a special mention.

I hate rogues that do that, about 50% of the time I will tell them not to open with cheap shot or use kidney shot early in the fight, and they will listen for like 3 pulls, then they will go back to their habit and wonder why they are pulling aggro and blame me for it. The others wont do it for the rest of the instance and I love them.

There's also the times when I tell them not to and I get "Why?" "BECAUSE I F-ing SAID SO!" is what I usually scream in my head, then I give the long detailed expalanation into how Paladin tanking works and then I get an "Oh".

In my tanking gear, my mage has about 12k health.