So, it's late and I've got nothing to do at the moment. Decided to ask a few questions that are actually hunter related. I have read the stickies (most of it anyway...it's quite long-winded) but with the information having last been updated more than a year ago, I just feel it's necessary for me to ask around.
Here goes. For a while now, I've been running around with this build. I find it useful while farming/questing on my own and it gives me a fairly useful off-tank in case something goes wrong with the CC in 5-mans (like someone breaks a trap or sheep). Is this a viable build? it's served me well thus-far but, I really want to get everything set without slowing down my guild or anything.
Now for the change I've been thinking about.
I've been trying to increase my usefulness in 5-mans and trying my best to be 100% prepared for Kara (most of the gear has already been acquired) but I'm still a bit "iffy" on my talent build, I've been looking into putting a handful of points in Survival while keeping my MM pretty much the same (It has served me well my entire Hunter career you see). I plan on relying a bit more on traps than I have been, since already I use my traps like mad in 5-mans, might as well make them as efficient as possible.
I guess my build would look something like this.
I'm still not sure how drastically my build would change in a raid setting (if at all) so any help on these subject would be most appreciated.
As another note, I have very, very little experience raiding, I've gone though Kara once but relinquished my position to a rogue (my primary role being DPS) as I felt under-equipped for the role and I've killed ysondre a while back with a handful of friends + 35 pick-ups.
Again, any information or constructive criticism is appreciated, hell, even some flaming may be in store.
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Ok, as for your builds.
You like MM and want to stay MM, thats fine. For raids and 5mans I would recommend the SV subspec. Some talents to improve your traps helps in small instances (especially if you do them on heroic mode).
Your MM talents however are not very logical spent. At least a few things I would reconsider:
- If you spec barrage, then spec improved barrage. Or leave both talents alone.
- Combat experience is not a good talent. Rapid killing and Go for the throat both are better for your DPS especially if you are in pre raid gear (and still if you are decked out in epics).
- I would not spec improved hunters mark and efficiency unless you are raiding and you are the one hunter that specs improved hunters mark to help melee dps (it does not make such a big difference in 5mans / 10mans).
In your SV subspec 2 talents are a bit weird for your spec.
- I'd not take improved feign death. Go for Sure footed since you'll likely have a lot less than 136 hit rating (which yields you 8.6% hit which is the optimum against raid bosses).
- If you aim for a PVE build I'd not spec improved wing clip. Put some points in either human or monster slaying instead.
- Entrapment is a rather weird talent. Whilst I really like it (especially for PvP) most hunters do not like this talent very much. Try it and decide afterwards whether you want to take those points elsewhere.
I have raided with a 0/43/18 build and it does ok damage in raids. I'm a lot more happy with my survival build currently but each to their own.
The best way to learn about raiding is to actually doing raids.
The thing which you should remember is to be prepared. So have your repairs done, bring a full quiver / ammo poach and also bring enough pots/elixirs.
You'll basically need a ton of mana pots (I try to always have ~20 on me), buff food (1 stack is sufficient), some agi-potions (10-20) or a flask of relentless assault (if you seem to die rather often a flask will be cheaper).
You like MM and want to stay MM, thats fine. For raids and 5mans I would recommend the SV subspec. Some talents to improve your traps helps in small instances (especially if you do them on heroic mode).
Your MM talents however are not very logical spent. At least a few things I would reconsider:
- If you spec barrage, then spec improved barrage. Or leave both talents alone.
- Combat experience is not a good talent. Rapid killing and Go for the throat both are better for your DPS especially if you are in pre raid gear (and still if you are decked out in epics).
- I would not spec improved hunters mark and efficiency unless you are raiding and you are the one hunter that specs improved hunters mark to help melee dps (it does not make such a big difference in 5mans / 10mans).
In your SV subspec 2 talents are a bit weird for your spec.
- I'd not take improved feign death. Go for Sure footed since you'll likely have a lot less than 136 hit rating (which yields you 8.6% hit which is the optimum against raid bosses).
- If you aim for a PVE build I'd not spec improved wing clip. Put some points in either human or monster slaying instead.
- Entrapment is a rather weird talent. Whilst I really like it (especially for PvP) most hunters do not like this talent very much. Try it and decide afterwards whether you want to take those points elsewhere.
I have raided with a 0/43/18 build and it does ok damage in raids. I'm a lot more happy with my survival build currently but each to their own.
The best way to learn about raiding is to actually doing raids.
The thing which you should remember is to be prepared. So have your repairs done, bring a full quiver / ammo poach and also bring enough pots/elixirs.
You'll basically need a ton of mana pots (I try to always have ~20 on me), buff food (1 stack is sufficient), some agi-potions (10-20) or a flask of relentless assault (if you seem to die rather often a flask will be cheaper).
I agree with what mulgrin says and see sig for gearcheck, shooting cycle macro's and other info regarding starting to raid with a hunter.
Your first build is very similiar to one I had leveling up to 70 but I went for intimidation aswell. When I went further into 5man and raids I switched to SV/MM with alot of what Mulgrin said in my mind.
Wonderful, Thank you all for your input. I'll start working on the re-specs right away.
NOOO lol
If you want a look at a very resourceful and good for PVE nd PVP build, but want t say MM take a look at my spec (link in Sig).
Only instead of Entrapment put two points into Imp Wingclip to get to Trevor Claps.
If you want a look at a very resourceful and good for PVE nd PVP build, but want t say MM take a look at my spec (link in Sig).
Only instead of Entrapment put two points into Imp Wingclip to get to Trevor Claps.
*cough*MM addict!*cough*
anyway, I prefer SV over MM for 5-mans because of better mana efefciency, better trapping and EW.
And pretty much equal dps.
For raiding i prefer both SV and BM over MM because BM simply has better dps and SV has EW (wich in turn gives loads of dps to the whole raid)
And no matter what caldone says, the only place MM really shines at the moment is PvP, because its hard to beat high dmg shots + scatter shot + silencing **** and also having acces to nice +hp and surefooted in SV.
And why? because MM makes the perfect subtree with Effeciency, Mortal shots and Lethal shots all withing reach.
And MM doesnt have acces to the great talents in the SV or BM tree (serpents swiftness, Lightning reflexes, killer instinct, TotH etc.)
anyway, I prefer SV over MM for 5-mans because of better mana efefciency, better trapping and EW.
And pretty much equal dps.
For raiding i prefer both SV and BM over MM because BM simply has better dps and SV has EW (wich in turn gives loads of dps to the whole raid)
And no matter what caldone says, the only place MM really shines at the moment is PvP, because its hard to beat high dmg shots + scatter shot + silencing **** and also having acces to nice +hp and surefooted in SV.
And why? because MM makes the perfect subtree with Effeciency, Mortal shots and Lethal shots all withing reach.
And MM doesnt have acces to the great talents in the SV or BM tree (serpents swiftness, Lightning reflexes, killer instinct, TotH etc.)
Just to give you another option (not necessarily better) on the mm/sv side of things.
I ran this for about ever and I belive that for 5 mans its the best possible build.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cZVVqRVzMeotbhVGkb
I ran this for about ever and I belive that for 5 mans its the best possible build.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cZVVqRVzMeotbhVGkb
Slammer, some points of criticism on the build you posted:
1: 5/5 imp arcane, you shouldnt use Arcane that often because of the high mana cost and because you can do a very solid shotrotation without imp. arcane.
2: 2/2 combat experience, i think i've calculated this about 10+ times and never have i seen it give enough stats to be worth it.
3: no barrage/imp. barrage, i would say that Multishot is quite important for a MM hunter, even though you can only se it a) at the last mob in a group/all cc'd mobs are far enough away or b) on bosses. Its still an important shot.
4: 5/5 deflection, seriously this makes me laugh and cry at the same time, its just a terrible talent no matter what you do, the only time i'd ever consider taking his is if i had enough points to fill up pretty much every single other point in all 3 tree's. (besides pathfinding, but even that's a tie of wich is worst)
5: 3/3 Imp. wing clip, a pure PvP talent that has nothing to do in a PvE player's spec.
6: no full monster/humanoid slaying. both of those mean a decent increase in dps (although not as good as lethal shots, they are still decent) And both are way better then deflection or imp. wing clip in a pve build.
7: no surefooted, since its perfectly in reach for a MM hunter and it provides +3% to hit as well as a nice rsist movement impairing effects bonus its something that just rocks. (also because pre-kara there isnt much +hit on gear making it hard to get yourself hitcapped)
edit: i dont mean to offend you, or say that i know everything better then you but the build you posted is just horrible.
Edited, Sep 25th 2007 10:48am by Aethien
1: 5/5 imp arcane, you shouldnt use Arcane that often because of the high mana cost and because you can do a very solid shotrotation without imp. arcane.
2: 2/2 combat experience, i think i've calculated this about 10+ times and never have i seen it give enough stats to be worth it.
3: no barrage/imp. barrage, i would say that Multishot is quite important for a MM hunter, even though you can only se it a) at the last mob in a group/all cc'd mobs are far enough away or b) on bosses. Its still an important shot.
4: 5/5 deflection, seriously this makes me laugh and cry at the same time, its just a terrible talent no matter what you do, the only time i'd ever consider taking his is if i had enough points to fill up pretty much every single other point in all 3 tree's. (besides pathfinding, but even that's a tie of wich is worst)
5: 3/3 Imp. wing clip, a pure PvP talent that has nothing to do in a PvE player's spec.
6: no full monster/humanoid slaying. both of those mean a decent increase in dps (although not as good as lethal shots, they are still decent) And both are way better then deflection or imp. wing clip in a pve build.
7: no surefooted, since its perfectly in reach for a MM hunter and it provides +3% to hit as well as a nice rsist movement impairing effects bonus its something that just rocks. (also because pre-kara there isnt much +hit on gear making it hard to get yourself hitcapped)
edit: i dont mean to offend you, or say that i know everything better then you but the build you posted is just horrible.
Edited, Sep 25th 2007 10:48am by Aethien
Yes I am an MM addict and will proudly admit it!
So on a side note, anybody beat Halo3 yet?
I was reading reviews and it said the 9 hour storyline sucked, but it was built to be a mostly PVP platform.
So on a side note, anybody beat Halo3 yet?
I was reading reviews and it said the 9 hour storyline sucked, but it was built to be a mostly PVP platform.
Caldone the Shady wrote:
So on a side note, anybody beat Halo3 yet?
SHUT UT! For the love of all that is holy, SHUT THE HELL UP!
No more retarded Halo! No more of these dumbass Halo posts on a WoW forum! The game is retarded, the entire series of games is bloody retarded! People who can't stop posting these Halo subjects are... well you guessed it, RETARDED!
GTFO my damned WoW forums and post in the Multigame forums if you want to discuss that piece of crap waste of bandwith!
Aethien wrote:
...points of criticism on the build...
2: 2/2 combat experience, i think i've calculated this about 10+ times and never have i seen it give enough stats to be worth it.
3: no barrage/imp. barrage, i would say that Multishot is quite important for a MM hunter, even though you can only se it a) at the last mob in a group/all cc'd mobs are far enough away or b) on bosses. Its still an important shot.
2: 2/2 combat experience, i think i've calculated this about 10+ times and never have i seen it give enough stats to be worth it.
3: no barrage/imp. barrage, i would say that Multishot is quite important for a MM hunter, even though you can only se it a) at the last mob in a group/all cc'd mobs are far enough away or b) on bosses. Its still an important shot.
Aethien,
I agree, for the most part, with your critique of the build. I quibble with the above two, however.
In my opinion, I'd rather put points in Combat Experience for the small (yeah, I know it's pretty minor) stat increase than any points in Barrage/Imp Barrage. My reasoning is that I just don't use Multi-shot/Volley enough that spending six talent points really seems justifiable.
Oh, and Caldone,
I would recommend revising your SV talents a little bit. For PvE, points in Surefooted is very beneficial. I'd suggest moving a few points from either of the Slaying talents into Surefooted.
Edited, Sep 25th 2007 11:31am by azwing
Quote:
SHUT UT! For the love of all that is holy, SHUT THE HELL UP!
No more retarded Halo! No more of these dumbass Halo posts on a WoW forum! The game is retarded, the entire series of games is bloody retarded! People who can't stop posting these Halo subjects are... well you guessed it, RETARDED!
GTFO my damned WoW forums and post in the Multigame forums if you want to discuss that piece of crap waste of bandwith!
No more retarded Halo! No more of these dumbass Halo posts on a WoW forum! The game is retarded, the entire series of games is bloody retarded! People who can't stop posting these Halo subjects are... well you guessed it, RETARDED!
GTFO my damned WoW forums and post in the Multigame forums if you want to discuss that piece of crap waste of bandwith!
What? Was just a question, I hate the damn game myself but whas listening on the radio to a talk show that had somebody call in and say they beat it in 6 hours.
Now, I like playing Mutliplayer on it, but I hate the game for the fact that since I work at Microsoft, its the only thing I have been hearing about for the last 2 weeks!
WoW is were it is at, I don't think I could possibly come up with enough time in my day to fit in another game!
NorthAI the Hand wrote:
Caldone the Shady wrote:
So on a side note, anybody beat Halo3 yet?
SHUT UT! For the love of all that is holy, SHUT THE HELL UP!
No more retarded Halo! No more of these dumbass Halo posts on a WoW forum! The game is retarded, the entire series of games is bloody retarded! People who can't stop posting these Halo subjects are... well you guessed it, RETARDED!
GTFO my damned WoW forums and post in the Multigame forums if you want to discuss that piece of crap waste of bandwith!
azwing wrote:
In my opinion, I'd rather put points in Combat Experience for the small (yeah, I know it's pretty minor) stat increase than any points in Barrage/Imp Barrage. My reasoning is that I just don't use Multi-shot/Volley enough that spending six talent points really seems justifiable.
As MM, Multishot is a very powerful shot wich crits for pretty good numbers and with barrage+imp. barrage it becomes a true powerhouse
And in any bossfight if you use it (nearly) every cooldown, it will increase your dps by a lot more then even 3x combat experience would.
Aethien wrote:
As MM, Multishot is a very powerful shot wich crits for pretty good numbers and with barrage+imp. barrage it becomes a true powerhouse
And in any bossfight if you use it (nearly) every cooldown, it will increase your dps by a lot more then even 3x combat experience would.
I second that. For a DPS oriented MM build I would include barrage & improved barrage. Those increases to volley are next to nothing but 12% more damage to multishot and 12% increased crit is a nice DPS boost.
But lets take some numbers. I'm way off what multi does for a MM hunter but I expect it hits for at least ~800 damage (non crit). Thats a numer a MM hunter should reach rather easy if he has at least blue level 70 gear.
So lets assume you do your multi every 10 seconds in a boss fight (which you should actually do).
12% increased damage then would give you 800 * 0.12 = 96 damage every 10 seconds before one accounts for crits.
I further assume a raid buffed MM hunter should have at least 25% crit.
So those 12% extra damage would give even more damage on crits.
You would get another 96 * 1.3 * 0.25 = 31.2 damage every 10 seconds.
So barrage should yield 127.2 extra damage every 10 seconds or 12.7dps.
Improved barrage is even better. It increases your crit rate for your multis by 12%.
So your multis which now hit for 896 damage before crit, crit 12% more often.
Thats 896 * 1.3 * 0.12 = 139.8 extra damage every 10 seconds or another 14dps.
So against raid bosses a Karazhan equiped MM hunter should get at least 27DPS from those 6 talent points. Thats only extra damage against one target. If you fight multiple targets you get even more out of this ability.
Furthermore this skill scales with your gear.
Of course there are better talents to spend your points (deep in BM and SV for example *giggles*). However if you have chosen MM as your main talent tree and you don't spec for PvP then you don't have many alternatives.
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