I was in a group of four the other night in SM and we were doing ok until one of our DPS had to leave, it was getting late. That left us with a 47 hunter (with a bear acting as tank), a 38 shadow priest as DPS and myself, a 32 holy priest as a healer. Not a stellar group for SM, I know, but there we were. It was getting pretty late and we were sort of rushing. The spriest walked ahead a drew aggro on a monk and another mob. The monk did very heavy damage to the spriest in short order. I had to flash heal the spriest about 5 seconds into the encounter to keep him alive. The health that the flash heal returned was quickly erased so I flash healed again, this time it crit for around 700. The mobs then turned on me. Fade didn't do enough to shed aggro, so I had to start healing myself (making it worse). I bubbled, flashed, desperate prayer, AB trinket, flashed, but it was not enough as those monks hit like a truck. I died and we wiped. It was pretty late, so that was the end of the evening.
I suppose I could have retreated into a cleared area and cast psychic scream, maybe that would have given us the time to deal with the mobs. Where we were standing at the moment though, there we visible mobs not too far ahead.
My question is,
if you know that emergency healing of the DPS will cause you to draw too much aggro, is it better to let the DPS die and maybe the tank can regain control of the situation?
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should I let the DPS die?Follow
Dont use a pet as a tank :P
Off-tank on 1 mob if its a >50 instance, np. But surely not a main tank.
Either way, if you wait until the actual tank dropped some hp and then start healing u shouldnt draw aggro at all. It takes a bit of effort for a dps to draw aggro off the tank if hes trying to keep aggro on all mob, so when that happens the dps should be a good bit ahead in threat of you.
If you know that this would happen, tough, just let him die. It usually doesn't matter too much in lower level instances (seeing as most tanks suck at that state makes it worse thou) but if it's the case in any outlands instance, tell them to focusfire on tank's target and not overaggro (as in, "WTF! FOCUSFIRE AND GET OMEN (or ktm)!")
Off-tank on 1 mob if its a >50 instance, np. But surely not a main tank.
Either way, if you wait until the actual tank dropped some hp and then start healing u shouldnt draw aggro at all. It takes a bit of effort for a dps to draw aggro off the tank if hes trying to keep aggro on all mob, so when that happens the dps should be a good bit ahead in threat of you.
If you know that this would happen, tough, just let him die. It usually doesn't matter too much in lower level instances (seeing as most tanks suck at that state makes it worse thou) but if it's the case in any outlands instance, tell them to focusfire on tank's target and not overaggro (as in, "WTF! FOCUSFIRE AND GET OMEN (or ktm)!")
Well, that was a really unique situation.
In 90% of situations, your priority is the tank and yourself. DPS comes after, and poor dps and/or idiots come after the other DPS. Generally you want to keep DPS up, BUT in your specific situation, there was no taunt to get the mobs off you (which a druid, warrior, or paladin could all do). As such, I would have let him die.
I'm really not sure that group would have worked out anywho. Firstly, you're missing 2 people. That's bad. You've got a bear pet to get aggro, and hunter pets are NOT good at building aggro on multiple mobs, even if he is level 47 (though he'll be able to take some hits himself, and probably should). Which means you'll ALWAYS have a mob on you when there's two-mob pulls if the hunter's not trapping/keeping aggro on one. Unless of course the spriest Mind Controls, but if he does that there's no way in hell the bear would be able to get aggro off him once it broke, and he basically becomes the sacrificial lamb every pull.
There are situations where the tank gets lower priority. Overgeared healer, 2 overgeared casters, and an undergeared tank... the casters could take plenty of hits, could kite and keep mobs off themselves, and the tank was basically just there for bosses. Slabs, frost mage, BM hunter + pet, elemental shammy, decent tank. I had to make the decision there as to keep the tank or the DPS alive; I chose the DPS, because they were really, really good players, knew how to kite, and could take a beating while still dealing out tons of damage. If I'd chosen the tank in that situation, I probably would have run oom from not killing mobs fast enough, and we would have died.
Of course, those situations are rare :P
In 90% of situations, your priority is the tank and yourself. DPS comes after, and poor dps and/or idiots come after the other DPS. Generally you want to keep DPS up, BUT in your specific situation, there was no taunt to get the mobs off you (which a druid, warrior, or paladin could all do). As such, I would have let him die.
I'm really not sure that group would have worked out anywho. Firstly, you're missing 2 people. That's bad. You've got a bear pet to get aggro, and hunter pets are NOT good at building aggro on multiple mobs, even if he is level 47 (though he'll be able to take some hits himself, and probably should). Which means you'll ALWAYS have a mob on you when there's two-mob pulls if the hunter's not trapping/keeping aggro on one. Unless of course the spriest Mind Controls, but if he does that there's no way in hell the bear would be able to get aggro off him once it broke, and he basically becomes the sacrificial lamb every pull.
There are situations where the tank gets lower priority. Overgeared healer, 2 overgeared casters, and an undergeared tank... the casters could take plenty of hits, could kite and keep mobs off themselves, and the tank was basically just there for bosses. Slabs, frost mage, BM hunter + pet, elemental shammy, decent tank. I had to make the decision there as to keep the tank or the DPS alive; I chose the DPS, because they were really, really good players, knew how to kite, and could take a beating while still dealing out tons of damage. If I'd chosen the tank in that situation, I probably would have run oom from not killing mobs fast enough, and we would have died.
Of course, those situations are rare :P
My feeling is, protect the tank first and yourself second, because DPS dying is easier to recover from. If the tank wasn't at least trying to get the aggro off them and it was clear they weren't going to get control of the situation, I don't think I'd die in place of a DPS'er.
I'm curious, where was the tank during all this? I realize a pet tank isn't ideal but the hunter still could've been tabbing around having him try to grab some of that aggro. Or is that ridiculous with the mobs you were facing?
My DPS peeps know that if they accidentally draw aggro I will heal them if I can, but if it goes south they need to use whatever tricks they have themselves to survive. Every class can at least pop a potion. I don't know much about shadow priests but was there some good reason he couldn't heal himself at all?
I'm curious, where was the tank during all this? I realize a pet tank isn't ideal but the hunter still could've been tabbing around having him try to grab some of that aggro. Or is that ridiculous with the mobs you were facing?
My DPS peeps know that if they accidentally draw aggro I will heal them if I can, but if it goes south they need to use whatever tricks they have themselves to survive. Every class can at least pop a potion. I don't know much about shadow priests but was there some good reason he couldn't heal himself at all?
Letting DPS die is a good way to let them know that they're doing something wrong.
However, your group was just asking for a difficult time, using a pet as a tank.
However, your group was just asking for a difficult time, using a pet as a tank.
Friarduck wrote:
The spriest walked ahead a drew aggro on a monk and another mob.
Friarduck wrote:
My question is,
if you know that emergency healing of the DPS will cause you to draw too much aggro, is it better to let the DPS die and maybe the tank can regain control of the situation?
if you know that emergency healing of the DPS will cause you to draw too much aggro, is it better to let the DPS die and maybe the tank can regain control of the situation?
Depends on how he got aggro. Your priority should be the tank, yourself, whoever that pulled a mob off you, DPS, the guy in stormwind that will gladly pay you on Tuesday for a burger today, then maybe that spriest.
Edited, Sep 20th 2007 2:44pm by azelia
short answer: yes, let them die and keep the tank up
long answer: It's usually the top priority to keep the tank up, but there are situations when it would be more beneficial to keep the dps alive. If it's a 3 mob pull and things go wrong, if your dps is smart and can kite/burn down the mobs it would be more beneficial to keep them alive rather than a tank who would take all week to down 3 elite mobs around your level.
long answer: It's usually the top priority to keep the tank up, but there are situations when it would be more beneficial to keep the dps alive. If it's a 3 mob pull and things go wrong, if your dps is smart and can kite/burn down the mobs it would be more beneficial to keep them alive rather than a tank who would take all week to down 3 elite mobs around your level.
Thanks folks, great answers, I appreciate the help.
On any bad pull, if you are not in combat (say you were drinking farther back and someone drew aggro), let them die unless you are sure the situation can be managed. That would be if the tank picked up the fight and you have mana and can salvage the fight.
If someone draws aggro inappropriately, its their problem, not yours. They will have a repair bill either way, but you can save yourself money and just rez them.
If someone draws aggro inappropriately, its their problem, not yours. They will have a repair bill either way, but you can save yourself money and just rez them.
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