Rogues are best in single target DPS, in overall damage (trash in raids or mob dense 5mans) competent equal gear mage or warlock can win.
So all these overall damage quotes you made just shows not your personal uberness but only that rest of DPS need seriously L2P.
At this moment I'm topping 5 mans damage (40-60%) with my shadowpriest in early outland instances, and I know it's not cuz priest so cool, it's because 90% of DPSers just starting to learn at this stage (most are hopeless on my server but anuway)
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EliminatorX wrote:
In ALL my 5-man experience I've never been outdps'd by a loladin.
Wanna go Shattered Halls with my Tankadin?
I know, I know, it was about Shockadin, but I couldn't just leave it be.
shockadins? how could they possibly out dps a rogue? granted, I don't know much about them, but I do know holy shock requires a decent amount of mana.
With good gear (read: after some heavy raiding) retri paladins become quite viable melee DPS class.
19 posts
Yes rogues can suck terriblly. But with my hunter at 29 i would get top dmg meater everytime and i didn't twink him he just had some wrsng gear and ab gear. But im twinking a rouge and i thought it would b fun 2 try a bg at 15. I did decent considering that there is so many twinks. Instead of dps i went for the flag and got us 2 points. It's not always about the dps it madders if ur on d or o
Edited, Sep 20th 2007 9:54am by Nubsterz
Edited, Sep 20th 2007 9:54am by Nubsterz
I left my frostmourne rogue whom I had been playing for 8 months for another server a few months ago because rogues are close to 2 for every 5 other classes. (leveled a straight shadow priest for 2 months on the other server and had a confirmed raid slot) First thing I found out when I went back to frostmourne was that 2 of my friends (who were considered tier 5 / full pvp geared) were hoping I'd go back full time and level my rogue so they could kick a tier 3/4 rogue off the raiding slot for kara amd join their bg team full time. Point of the story is.
When people know you will do your job and do it well. they don't look at dps. only the guys admiring their e-peens will do so. (and when you're friends with them they won't pull it out so much as they appreciate you or you them.)
When people know you will do your job and do it well. they don't look at dps. only the guys admiring their e-peens will do so. (and when you're friends with them they won't pull it out so much as they appreciate you or you them.)
Ok, I absolutely have to throw my story in here.
I've been trying to get a Latro's for a while now. I've since given up (I get S2 Quickblade on Tuesday), but that's beside the point. I'm on Zuluhed, which is slowly dying. At any given point there might be 25-50 70s on (I'm not kidding, it really is that low), so getting a group is ******* hard. I managed to get an invite to one, which seemed to be an all guild run pugging me in, so it looked to be a good group. I checked the mage, and he had full Spellfire and a few PvP epics. Destined to be a nice, quick run.
Dear Lord was I wrong.
Our group composition was a Priest, Mage, Warrior, Paladin and Me. I assumed that the Warrior was going to DPS and the Pally was going to tank (the Pally had tank gear on). I asked the mage if he wanted adds, and he explained that he wasn't very good at them because he went OOM quickly. Ok, so the Mage isn't so great, but he's got good gear, so he's bound to be decent DPS. I let him have the elites, and I took add duty.
Things get going, and I'm slaying adds left and right. Nothing's getting through. This was my first run since I got so close to the hit cap (I'm 9 away), so I was mainly just enjoying not ever missing on the pitiful 70ish mobs. After a few minutes, I realized that the Rift Lord was still alive, and we had another portal up.
Mage: OOM.
You've got to be ******** me. I checked the Rift Lord, and it was at 30% health or so. The mage had burned his entire mana pool and had failed to kill it. I then looked at SW Stats. I was 58% of the group's damage. Our Paladin was trying to DPS in tank gear (he was being outdamaged by the healer who had been wanding occasionally), and our Warrior was tanking.
I was literally the only competent DPS in the entire group. To skip forward a bit, we wiped on the second portal because our healer disconnected. I was the only one smart enough to not die, the idiot tank just stood there and let the mobs beat him to death, alongside the mage and paladin. I just walked away.
Ok, so this is the point where any sane person would just walk away. Not me, I wanted that ******* sword. I tell the mage that he's on adds whether he likes it or not. I can solo DPS the elites no problem. The Priest comes back, and we go for round two.
FIGHT!
First portal opens. I tear into the Rift Lord like nobody's business. He's down shortly thereafter, and the second portal opens. Away we go. At this point I was thinking to myself that we might actually pull this off, if the mage can handle the adds. In all honesty, mages are the best add handlers in the game. Fast killing with uber kiting abilities make them godly at it.
On the second Rift Lord for about 10 seconds when I see a familiar message.
Mage: OOM.
Ok, seriously, WTF? He hadn't had time to spend his mana yet, how on earth did he go OOM that fast? To compound things, the moron decides to continue fighting rather than sit and drink (you frequently leave combat on add duty), so he just wands the adds....and dies.
Yay, our add killer is dead! Rez him up and let's continue.
Portal 3, second verse, same as the first.
Mage: OOM.
Mage: Rez plz.
Dear Christ, what is he doing? I decide to watch him to see what the hell is going on. I swear to god everything you're reading and will read is true.
Portal 4. I'm paying more attention to the mage this time. He rezzes up with low health and mana. Doesn't bother to eat or drink, just runs straight for the adds. One fireball to pull the adds, then another on the way. As soon as it closed its distance...Arcane Explosion spam. This guy is just plain retarded. A mana inefficient AoE attack for a single mob in a situation where you know you need to conserve mana.
He manages to survive the rest of this phase, and the first boss goes down without much struggling. I'm up to 61% of the group's damage at this point. The Paladin is finally outdamaging the healer by a small margin, and the mage has stopped dying (for now). Things are looking up.
Phase 2.
First portal, goes down without much trouble, but the mage is getting low on mana since he's retarded and it takes me a little while to solo DPS the elites down. He of course does not drink, and immediately jumps on the next wave of adds.
Mage: OOM.
Mage: Rez plz.
Dear Christ, this is getting old.
Third Portal opens as the mage is getting rezzed.
Me: Hey, I'll take the adds for a bit while you drink.
The mage of course jumps immediately on the adds without rest again. I'm desperate for a Latro's, so I take matters into my own hands. Along with solo DPSing the elites, I am now killing every other add to keep the mage from wiping us all through his idiocy. The Rift Lords are dying even slower, and portals start to stack. Despite it all, we manage to down the second boss, and Medivh's shield is around 50%.
62% of the group's damage now. I'm becoming excited, as the "hard" part of this noob instance is over, and the mage's job just got a lot easier. Only a few more waves to go, and I get another shot at Latro's.
More of the same. Mage goes OOM every now and then, but from my extra DPS on the adds, he doesn't die. Portals stacking slowly, but nothing we can't handle.
Wave 4. Tank charges in, gets hit hard a couple times, no heals. Hit some more, no heals. Down to 30%, no heals. Shield Wall up, no heals. 5% health. I walked away to a safe spot and waited for his death. Once again, I'm the only one bright enough to simply walk away from the fight. I didn't even have to vanish, the guy evades out after 30-40 yards from his portal.
Of course, our priest had disconnected again. I started warming up my hearthstone.
Me: This is ridiculous.
Me: *Posts SWStats*
Tank: WOW!
Mage: But you have two pieces of T4, of course you're going to outdamage us.
Me: I should not be close to that much of the damage, learn to play and don't invite two tanks to a 5 man group, scrubs.
*Hearth*
Me: /exit
I've been trying to get a Latro's for a while now. I've since given up (I get S2 Quickblade on Tuesday), but that's beside the point. I'm on Zuluhed, which is slowly dying. At any given point there might be 25-50 70s on (I'm not kidding, it really is that low), so getting a group is ******* hard. I managed to get an invite to one, which seemed to be an all guild run pugging me in, so it looked to be a good group. I checked the mage, and he had full Spellfire and a few PvP epics. Destined to be a nice, quick run.
Dear Lord was I wrong.
Our group composition was a Priest, Mage, Warrior, Paladin and Me. I assumed that the Warrior was going to DPS and the Pally was going to tank (the Pally had tank gear on). I asked the mage if he wanted adds, and he explained that he wasn't very good at them because he went OOM quickly. Ok, so the Mage isn't so great, but he's got good gear, so he's bound to be decent DPS. I let him have the elites, and I took add duty.
Things get going, and I'm slaying adds left and right. Nothing's getting through. This was my first run since I got so close to the hit cap (I'm 9 away), so I was mainly just enjoying not ever missing on the pitiful 70ish mobs. After a few minutes, I realized that the Rift Lord was still alive, and we had another portal up.
Mage: OOM.
You've got to be ******** me. I checked the Rift Lord, and it was at 30% health or so. The mage had burned his entire mana pool and had failed to kill it. I then looked at SW Stats. I was 58% of the group's damage. Our Paladin was trying to DPS in tank gear (he was being outdamaged by the healer who had been wanding occasionally), and our Warrior was tanking.
I was literally the only competent DPS in the entire group. To skip forward a bit, we wiped on the second portal because our healer disconnected. I was the only one smart enough to not die, the idiot tank just stood there and let the mobs beat him to death, alongside the mage and paladin. I just walked away.
Ok, so this is the point where any sane person would just walk away. Not me, I wanted that ******* sword. I tell the mage that he's on adds whether he likes it or not. I can solo DPS the elites no problem. The Priest comes back, and we go for round two.
FIGHT!
First portal opens. I tear into the Rift Lord like nobody's business. He's down shortly thereafter, and the second portal opens. Away we go. At this point I was thinking to myself that we might actually pull this off, if the mage can handle the adds. In all honesty, mages are the best add handlers in the game. Fast killing with uber kiting abilities make them godly at it.
On the second Rift Lord for about 10 seconds when I see a familiar message.
Mage: OOM.
Ok, seriously, WTF? He hadn't had time to spend his mana yet, how on earth did he go OOM that fast? To compound things, the moron decides to continue fighting rather than sit and drink (you frequently leave combat on add duty), so he just wands the adds....and dies.
Yay, our add killer is dead! Rez him up and let's continue.
Portal 3, second verse, same as the first.
Mage: OOM.
Mage: Rez plz.
Dear Christ, what is he doing? I decide to watch him to see what the hell is going on. I swear to god everything you're reading and will read is true.
Portal 4. I'm paying more attention to the mage this time. He rezzes up with low health and mana. Doesn't bother to eat or drink, just runs straight for the adds. One fireball to pull the adds, then another on the way. As soon as it closed its distance...Arcane Explosion spam. This guy is just plain retarded. A mana inefficient AoE attack for a single mob in a situation where you know you need to conserve mana.
He manages to survive the rest of this phase, and the first boss goes down without much struggling. I'm up to 61% of the group's damage at this point. The Paladin is finally outdamaging the healer by a small margin, and the mage has stopped dying (for now). Things are looking up.
Phase 2.
First portal, goes down without much trouble, but the mage is getting low on mana since he's retarded and it takes me a little while to solo DPS the elites down. He of course does not drink, and immediately jumps on the next wave of adds.
Mage: OOM.
Mage: Rez plz.
Dear Christ, this is getting old.
Third Portal opens as the mage is getting rezzed.
Me: Hey, I'll take the adds for a bit while you drink.
The mage of course jumps immediately on the adds without rest again. I'm desperate for a Latro's, so I take matters into my own hands. Along with solo DPSing the elites, I am now killing every other add to keep the mage from wiping us all through his idiocy. The Rift Lords are dying even slower, and portals start to stack. Despite it all, we manage to down the second boss, and Medivh's shield is around 50%.
62% of the group's damage now. I'm becoming excited, as the "hard" part of this noob instance is over, and the mage's job just got a lot easier. Only a few more waves to go, and I get another shot at Latro's.
More of the same. Mage goes OOM every now and then, but from my extra DPS on the adds, he doesn't die. Portals stacking slowly, but nothing we can't handle.
Wave 4. Tank charges in, gets hit hard a couple times, no heals. Hit some more, no heals. Down to 30%, no heals. Shield Wall up, no heals. 5% health. I walked away to a safe spot and waited for his death. Once again, I'm the only one bright enough to simply walk away from the fight. I didn't even have to vanish, the guy evades out after 30-40 yards from his portal.
Of course, our priest had disconnected again. I started warming up my hearthstone.
Me: This is ridiculous.
Me: *Posts SWStats*
Tank: WOW!
Mage: But you have two pieces of T4, of course you're going to outdamage us.
Me: I should not be close to that much of the damage, learn to play and don't invite two tanks to a 5 man group, scrubs.
*Hearth*
Me: /exit
My experiences trying to get the Latro's were much the same. I joined a PuG earlier last week, but the mage couldn't handle the adds alone, so the SPriest went to help. Unfortunately, my DPS isn't that uber, so portals started opening on top of eachother, and we wiped on the first boss because the healer was spreading her mana too thin.
Then, just this week, I got a guild group together and hunkered down to get my ******* sword. Sure enough, it dropped the first run. We ran through a second time to get a few people to revered, and wouldn't y'know it, it dropped again!
I also got the Edge of the Cosmos last night from Mech (finally!), so I'm all sworded out, and I'm not setting foot back into Black Morass for a long time.
Then, just this week, I got a guild group together and hunkered down to get my ******* sword. Sure enough, it dropped the first run. We ran through a second time to get a few people to revered, and wouldn't y'know it, it dropped again!
I also got the Edge of the Cosmos last night from Mech (finally!), so I'm all sworded out, and I'm not setting foot back into Black Morass for a long time.
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
I thought I was done with BM a long time ago. I'm about 15 runs past full Exalted.
ManusDei wrote:
With good gear (read: after some heavy raiding) retri paladins become quite viable melee DPS class.
This is very, very false. Retadins are used to keep up Judgements and provide melee buffs. I have yet to see a Retadin topping 1700 DPS, where rogues have been topping 2000 DPS for quite a while on bosses like Rage Winterchill.
The only time you see Retardins in raids is when the guild has the content on farm, period. They put out incredibly horrible DPS even under perfect conditions and eat up debuff slot(s).
If you are being outdps-ed by (good) casters in Kara, thats fine as long as you are close. If thats happening later on, you might wanna man up.
If you are being outdps-ed by (good) casters in Kara, thats fine as long as you are close. If thats happening later on, you might wanna man up.
ElementHuman wrote:
The only time you see Retardins in raids is when the guild has the content on farm, period. They put out incredibly horrible DPS even under perfect conditions and eat up debuff slot(s).
Not true, actually. Guilds that are in BT/Hyjal use retadins.
They're viable, though I'm not sure if they're more viable than holy/protadins. I've never seen a good retadin outside of PvP, so I can't really say. I'm assuming that geared and specced right they're an asset to a raid.
know that a mage(nuking) can PROBABLY make the same damage as a rogue...
On trash, Mages > Rogues. On boss fights, Rogues > Mages. Mana pools limit DPS. They have very high DPS moves (fire blast, for example) that are very mana inefficient, so they do not get used. Rogues only need to economize energy so much, and never have to stop DPS unless we die or overaggro (not a problem if you know what you're doing).
The only classes that ever outdamage me on extended boss fights are Warlocks, and only when completely outgeared.
The only classes that ever outdamage me on extended boss fights are Warlocks, and only when completely outgeared.
Quote:
This is very, very false. Retadins are used to keep up Judgements and provide melee buffs. I have yet to see a Retadin topping 1700 DPS, where rogues have been topping 2000 DPS for quite a while on bosses like Rage Winterchill.
I didn't said they beat rogue, I just said "viable"=not that bad/better than many. also there's such thing as support and passive dmg increase, extra blessing to whole raid, aura, seal etc.
Melee DPS grp cannot consist only of rogues "because they do most damage"
Ideally it's rogue, feral dr00d, enhancement WF shaman and 2 Fury/or 1 fury+1 MS warrs
2 Nooble
You're defo very cool, but you repeat word "me" too much or is it just me? :) /wink
Edited, Sep 23rd 2007 12:40pm by ManusDei
ffjpr wrote:
I've been told Shockadins, Shamans and feral druids out DPS Rogues, ALL Rogues, easily. [
I have been out-DPSed by warlocks, mages and hunters (in that order). I think by a shadow priest once even. I have never ever seen a paladin get close, or a feral druid. I would actually sooner take a moonkin to a group than feral...
Btw, I don't see how classes with no aggro reduction can out-dps a rogue - they will be dead sooner.
Wytryszek wrote:
ffjpr wrote:
I've been told Shockadins, Shamans and feral druids out DPS Rogues, ALL Rogues, easily. [
I have been out-DPSed by warlocks, mages and hunters (in that order). I think by a shadow priest once even. I have never ever seen a paladin get close, or a feral druid. I would actually sooner take a moonkin to a group than feral...
Btw, I don't see how classes with no aggro reduction can out-dps a rogue - they will be dead sooner.
You've probably only seen a druid that spams mangle if he hasn't been close.
My brother is a feral druid and when he's allowed to DPS, he's right up in the top 5 with me and the other rogues.
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