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Ele shamans must be fixedFollow
1 post
I think that the ele shamans must be fixed in "Wrath Of The Lichking" cause i dont think they have the skill to runaway from the opponent :the mages has frost nova warlock fear druid enatling roots priest fear "so i thin the shamans must have something like vodoo or ........... but my 63 ele shaman its very good only have that problem with rogue i hate them !
Scholar
44 posts
Frost Shock, Earth Bind Totem, Stoneclaw?
having trouble reading the op. oh well
We suck at PvP, generally speaking using the 2 dps spec's of shaman. Elem is a "tad" easier than Enh to PvP in, but as you have started to notice, we have some glaring weaknesses. Easiest spec to pvp in is Resto usually, granted as you might figuer it also means a significant play style adjustment.
You complaint shouldn't be centered around why we don't have better abilities to "run away" with, but rather it should be more related to BREAK CC abilities, its bad enough we don't have anything to position control our targets (aka CC).
Secondly, in regards to mages and locks and "getting away".....why!? If anything your goal is to "get in on them" not gain more distance? Either class isn't excessively more dangerous at melee range (god bless the clothy that is dps dependant on their melee LOL), and if anything a shaman (especially a elem) is trying to keep their target within thier shock range (which sadly is about a arms length outside melee range :P).
Druids are a tad of a problem sometimes. IF its a Boomkin, then its going to be a battle of the ranged pew pew, which IMO usually favors the Elem sham due to our grounding tot and earth shock. Feral on the other hand...well that might get annoying. They might try and take you head on in bear form, in which case its almost a battle of the MP pool and endurance (with some clever switching back and forth, this can be bad news for us). Or they might try the psuedo-rogue approach at the start, in which case your about to get bent for a few seconds, then hope you out live the part you can't do anything, and then try and mount a offense.
If its a rogue, well....pray you have A LOT of HP/your mag tot found them b4 the backstab(stun,whatever), and can survive the stun-lock until they are trying to recover energy. Heal and mount a offense.
You complaint shouldn't be centered around why we don't have better abilities to "run away" with, but rather it should be more related to BREAK CC abilities, its bad enough we don't have anything to position control our targets (aka CC).
Secondly, in regards to mages and locks and "getting away".....why!? If anything your goal is to "get in on them" not gain more distance? Either class isn't excessively more dangerous at melee range (god bless the clothy that is dps dependant on their melee LOL), and if anything a shaman (especially a elem) is trying to keep their target within thier shock range (which sadly is about a arms length outside melee range :P).
Druids are a tad of a problem sometimes. IF its a Boomkin, then its going to be a battle of the ranged pew pew, which IMO usually favors the Elem sham due to our grounding tot and earth shock. Feral on the other hand...well that might get annoying. They might try and take you head on in bear form, in which case its almost a battle of the MP pool and endurance (with some clever switching back and forth, this can be bad news for us). Or they might try the psuedo-rogue approach at the start, in which case your about to get bent for a few seconds, then hope you out live the part you can't do anything, and then try and mount a offense.
If its a rogue, well....pray you have A LOT of HP/your mag tot found them b4 the backstab(stun,whatever), and can survive the stun-lock until they are trying to recover energy. Heal and mount a offense.
Quote:
Frost Shock, Earth Bind Totem, Stoneclaw?
lol
40 posts
The reason we are given mail to wear instead of cloth is because we can't just frost nova somebody and run away. As a chain wearer you can take a few hits, learn to deal with it and try and adjust your play style around it
Quote:
We suck at PvP
um... lawl? i find that shaman are a VERY good class for pvp, whenever anyone sees a big enhance tauren with a freakin axe heading twords them they all tell me and their buddies to RUN. Also i'm usually top 3 in WSG and AB in kills and HKs, and always first in heals in WSG unless theres a holy priest. Sure we dont have any CC but as the above bpost states we have mail armour and if.. say we had CC that might be a call for NERF. no flaming intended just stating my opinion =)
Quote:
um... lawl? i find that shaman are a VERY good class for pvp, whenever anyone sees a big enhance tauren with a freakin axe heading towards them they all tell me and their buddies to RUN.
Is this from the perspective of a 48 Sham? And a Enh no less? O_o
Here's a rude wakeup call, my statement of "suck" starts rearing its ugly head once you start tackling the big boys in endgame. I've already writen up rather long and indepth reviews regarding this topic (obviously you haven't haunted these boards long enough to notice), but in the BIG picture, my "opinion" reflects the stats and facts. Do some research in arenas stats and specs and you'll start to notice a trend.
Its not so much the "lack" of CC that makes us "weak" in PvP (specifically 1v1 PvP/Arena 2v2, not BG PvP/cluster...there's a difference), but our lack of CC "breakers". Without these tools, we're either a kiting waiting to happen (especially from a Enh point of view), or we're dying tired of running away (from a Elem's point of view). Resto's tend to be the easier for overall PvP, and Elem/Enh excel at BG PvP (until they are "found out"), but "generally" speaking...we're not well suiting for PvP compared to other classes.
Shaman in PvP are what Warriors used to be (and still are, really) - which is to say, useless without support but a walking ball of death if supported. Enhancement is... well, Enhancement is Enhancement, but Elemental is an extremely threatening spec if used properly. You can be locked down, you can be beat up, but you're fairly hard to kill and if your teammates can get you out of the frying pan for a few seconds you can and will start ripping through the opposing team.
Without people getting you out of CC or keeping people off your back, though, you're the opposite of a Warrior in small-group PvP: We can't catch them, you can't get away. Both are bad, and both classes really shine when combined with others which is where they really dominate. *shrug*
If you think Elemental Shaman are bad at PvP, you really need to see them in 5v5s or even 3v3s. 2v2 is its own weird little bracket and BG couldn't matter less if you're playing with idiot PuGs - while not obscenely strong on your own in many cases, a well-supported Shaman will smash face and help his teammates out to boot.
Without people getting you out of CC or keeping people off your back, though, you're the opposite of a Warrior in small-group PvP: We can't catch them, you can't get away. Both are bad, and both classes really shine when combined with others which is where they really dominate. *shrug*
If you think Elemental Shaman are bad at PvP, you really need to see them in 5v5s or even 3v3s. 2v2 is its own weird little bracket and BG couldn't matter less if you're playing with idiot PuGs - while not obscenely strong on your own in many cases, a well-supported Shaman will smash face and help his teammates out to boot.
15 posts
M8t
M8 we are talking about PVP 1vs1 Elemental is really weak.
U got only 1 inst spell with 6 sec cd.
And long time casting spell with not so high dmg.
You will say u got grounding totem ok but mage always use lance first and than frostbolt/pyroblast.
and tell me who you whant to slow ?
War imposible cuz he got 2 charge spells.
Rogue got cloak
drood every1 know.
Life if elem shammy is really hard in 1vs1 pvp he dont have big chance.
Sry for my English
RPZip wrote:
Shaman in PvP are what Warriors used to be (and still are, really) - which is to say, useless without support but a walking ball of death if supported. Enhancement is... well, Enhancement is Enhancement, but Elemental is an extremely threatening spec if used properly. You can be locked down, you can be beat up, but you're fairly hard to kill and if your teammates can get you out of the frying pan for a few seconds you can and will start ripping through the opposing team.
Without people getting you out of CC or keeping people off your back, though, you're the opposite of a Warrior in small-group PvP: We can't catch them, you can't get away. Both are bad, and both classes really shine when combined with others which is where they really dominate. *shrug*
If you think Elemental Shaman are bad at PvP, you really need to see them in 5v5s or even 3v3s. 2v2 is its own weird little bracket and BG couldn't matter less if you're playing with idiot PuGs - while not obscenely strong on your own in many cases, a well-supported Shaman will smash face and help his teammates out to boot.
Without people getting you out of CC or keeping people off your back, though, you're the opposite of a Warrior in small-group PvP: We can't catch them, you can't get away. Both are bad, and both classes really shine when combined with others which is where they really dominate. *shrug*
If you think Elemental Shaman are bad at PvP, you really need to see them in 5v5s or even 3v3s. 2v2 is its own weird little bracket and BG couldn't matter less if you're playing with idiot PuGs - while not obscenely strong on your own in many cases, a well-supported Shaman will smash face and help his teammates out to boot.
M8 we are talking about PVP 1vs1 Elemental is really weak.
U got only 1 inst spell with 6 sec cd.
And long time casting spell with not so high dmg.
You will say u got grounding totem ok but mage always use lance first and than frostbolt/pyroblast.
and tell me who you whant to slow ?
War imposible cuz he got 2 charge spells.
Rogue got cloak
drood every1 know.
Life if elem shammy is really hard in 1vs1 pvp he dont have big chance.
Sry for my English
We are getting a CC. The class doesn't suck. The player does.
Scholar
45 posts
Call me cynical but I bet the new CC will be a totem, probably in a useful element like air...so we may get cc but it will come at the cost of another totem. It will be what totem of wrath is to the fire totems.
Quote:
And a Enh no less
*ELEMENTAL* =)
40 posts
I'm actually thinking the new CC might be a new elem shield. We have an earth, water and nature shield, why not air and fire? My guess, and again this is just a guess, is that we will have to pull them, with either frost shock or LB then they hit us and get stunned/CC'd some how.
I think shields in general needed improvement. Aside from Earth Shield (which is just GODLY), our other shields really lack anything useful or "threatening".
In a PvP sense, many other classes have "something" that if/when you see it active, it puts up a "red flag" in your head saying you HAVE to adjust or do something to avoid it or counter it. Pally's have their "anti-death" bubble, priests have their shields, hunters have their wrath, warrior's have their "anti-fear mode", Resto sham's have ES...the list goes on and on. These abilities "make" you have to do something, weither it be dispel it, run from it....SOMETHING, before you can continue the assault.
This being said, LS and WS don't really bring up a "red flag" to anyone :P Even as a Enh fighting another sham with a LS up...to be honest, I don't even remember nor care if I purged it or not, before hitting them. Sure I might take about 600ish dmg from the LS (which is only 1 or 2 procs/or apx 10sec fight, from start to dead!), but in the time it took me to kill said target, I dealt apx 10k dmg vs. the 600ish from the shield. Even IF the fight took longer than that, and I ended up taking ALL the 3 charges of LS...900-1200ish dmg to my apx 10k HP....really isn't a BIG dent to make me regret not getting rid of it.
Since WS isn't intended for dmg, but rather MP recovery, its use in PvP is somewhere between nil to "opps I hit the wrong macro...I'll just keep it up anyhow :p" While PvE is does have its extended uses (tho it could really use some work), one of the key problems (and this goes the same for LS too) is the fact that the orb proc's are based on a CD timer per proc. Which means that you'll have to recieve "X" amount of additional dmg over "Y" span of time (apx 10secs), in order to recieve the full effect (which is apx 1200ish for 3 LS's or 400ish MP for 3 WS). And obviously the problem is that 3 charges uses the whole shield effects up, forcing us to blow a global CD to apply another, which can be a act in futility as stated above.
10 secs is a LONG time to give to ANYTHING, in order to reap the benifits. There are MANY classes (this inclueds the 2 dps sham specs), that 10 secs is MORE than enough time to kill someone.
I've always endorsed a "fix" to shields in the form of either increased "proc" effect, or increase the # of charges. One of the things that makes ES to nice, is the fact that it has 10 charges, instead of 3, thus you don't need to keep reapplying it ever 10secs :p Something like a WS w/ 10 charges, instead of recasting it 3 times and wasting 3 GCD, to get the same effect, sounds resonable to me. Or perhaps a LS that did apx 1k per proc! That should give a melee person something to think about before hitting you! Heck even from my point of view, I kinda feel bad engaging a enemy sham and not remebering if I purged them or not, cuz frankly it wasn't a big deal :P Give me a REASON to purge :P
On a related note, since we're on "hypothetical" mode atm, I always wondered about having a Wind shield and a Fire shield. Wind shield as a anti-ranged weapon defense, and Fire shield...something "like" LS, but traces back to offensive spells used against us.
Its a thought...
Edited, Sep 21st 2007 3:26am by gpyfb
In a PvP sense, many other classes have "something" that if/when you see it active, it puts up a "red flag" in your head saying you HAVE to adjust or do something to avoid it or counter it. Pally's have their "anti-death" bubble, priests have their shields, hunters have their wrath, warrior's have their "anti-fear mode", Resto sham's have ES...the list goes on and on. These abilities "make" you have to do something, weither it be dispel it, run from it....SOMETHING, before you can continue the assault.
This being said, LS and WS don't really bring up a "red flag" to anyone :P Even as a Enh fighting another sham with a LS up...to be honest, I don't even remember nor care if I purged it or not, before hitting them. Sure I might take about 600ish dmg from the LS (which is only 1 or 2 procs/or apx 10sec fight, from start to dead!), but in the time it took me to kill said target, I dealt apx 10k dmg vs. the 600ish from the shield. Even IF the fight took longer than that, and I ended up taking ALL the 3 charges of LS...900-1200ish dmg to my apx 10k HP....really isn't a BIG dent to make me regret not getting rid of it.
Since WS isn't intended for dmg, but rather MP recovery, its use in PvP is somewhere between nil to "opps I hit the wrong macro...I'll just keep it up anyhow :p" While PvE is does have its extended uses (tho it could really use some work), one of the key problems (and this goes the same for LS too) is the fact that the orb proc's are based on a CD timer per proc. Which means that you'll have to recieve "X" amount of additional dmg over "Y" span of time (apx 10secs), in order to recieve the full effect (which is apx 1200ish for 3 LS's or 400ish MP for 3 WS). And obviously the problem is that 3 charges uses the whole shield effects up, forcing us to blow a global CD to apply another, which can be a act in futility as stated above.
10 secs is a LONG time to give to ANYTHING, in order to reap the benifits. There are MANY classes (this inclueds the 2 dps sham specs), that 10 secs is MORE than enough time to kill someone.
I've always endorsed a "fix" to shields in the form of either increased "proc" effect, or increase the # of charges. One of the things that makes ES to nice, is the fact that it has 10 charges, instead of 3, thus you don't need to keep reapplying it ever 10secs :p Something like a WS w/ 10 charges, instead of recasting it 3 times and wasting 3 GCD, to get the same effect, sounds resonable to me. Or perhaps a LS that did apx 1k per proc! That should give a melee person something to think about before hitting you! Heck even from my point of view, I kinda feel bad engaging a enemy sham and not remebering if I purged them or not, cuz frankly it wasn't a big deal :P Give me a REASON to purge :P
On a related note, since we're on "hypothetical" mode atm, I always wondered about having a Wind shield and a Fire shield. Wind shield as a anti-ranged weapon defense, and Fire shield...something "like" LS, but traces back to offensive spells used against us.
Its a thought...
Edited, Sep 21st 2007 3:26am by gpyfb
Scholar
44 posts
Dread Lord SunSoarer wrote:
Quote:
Frost Shock, Earth Bind Totem, Stoneclaw?
lol
I've only been playing the game a few months and my Enh Shaman is my main... care to explain the lawl? Seems the OP was complaining about not keeping range to the target, and FS and Earth Bind seem like reasonable solutions, granted Stoneclaw is for PVE.
Explanations are FTW.
Edited, Sep 21st 2007 2:48am by Elecktrofreak
While earthbind and FS are staples in the Sham's arsonal of "keep away/keep close" tactics, they definetly have their flaws, and are easy to get around, typically. Ttotems are destoryable, FS effect duration runs out fast and shock's short range, don't really allow a good "buffer" distance from your enemy, and vice versa to keep someone close, means you gotta get close to them anyhow :P
Stoneclaw is just useless in PVP since taunt's play no role in "player target control" and the only way for it to "activate" would mean that the enemy would have to "hit" it, to even give it a "chance" to stun them. Since the totem's name is displayed to them in BIG bold letters, it takes a special kind of idiot to smack one for the heck of it :p
I'm assuming that was the source of the "lol", since the above mentioned are a "weak" reply to the overall problem.
Stoneclaw is just useless in PVP since taunt's play no role in "player target control" and the only way for it to "activate" would mean that the enemy would have to "hit" it, to even give it a "chance" to stun them. Since the totem's name is displayed to them in BIG bold letters, it takes a special kind of idiot to smack one for the heck of it :p
I'm assuming that was the source of the "lol", since the above mentioned are a "weak" reply to the overall problem.
LOL...I was gonna say, I didn't think Stoneclaw worked on players?? And the other stuff, well...mimimal effect, at best. If you want to run away, I think Ghost Wolf is about the only option. Can't recall the last time I ran from anything though!
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