Does the +20 str added by this enchant exceed that offered by crusader at lvl 70? I just added it to my one-hander and then wondered if Crusader might have been the better choice.
Thanks,
Reg
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crusader gives 60 str at 70. as well as a small heal. like 75 hp healed.
Crusader is a 1ppm (If I remember correctly) and lasts 15 seconds. At level 70 it gives 60 strength. So think of it this way; if Crusader was spread out over one minute, you'd get 15 strength for the whole minute. With Potency, you get 20 strength for the minute. A goofy way to look at it, but it makes sense in my head.
Ah, Bingo! Just what I was looking for. I'm going for Potency on the new one-hander. Thanks for the input!
Reg (who may change the enchant on his 2-hander too)
Reg (who may change the enchant on his 2-hander too)
I'd like t osee something concrete that says Crusader is 1 ppm. I dual wield crusaders on my daggers and I could swear it procs faster.
Even taking into account dual procs, I think its faster than 1ppm. I have gotten at least 2 procs from 1 weapon in one fight and the everage fight for me lasts about 10-15 seconds.
Guess I'm gonna have to start paying more attention to it and try my hand at Fraps.
Even taking into account dual procs, I think its faster than 1ppm. I have gotten at least 2 procs from 1 weapon in one fight and the everage fight for me lasts about 10-15 seconds.
Guess I'm gonna have to start paying more attention to it and try my hand at Fraps.
Scholar
49 posts
I think the procs are measured in average time between, so a 1 minute proc might well proc multiple times in one minute or non in several minutes. I don't know where the measurement on the proc rate for those comes from though, perhaps someone logged it for sufficient time to determine a statistical average?
Crusader procs considerably more on the mainhand than the offhand. It's 1 PPM for _autoattacks_, but instant attacks like Bloodthirst/Mortal Strike/Whirlwind/Hamstring/Windfury Totem Procs all have the same chance to proc Crusader as an autoattack swing does... resulting in an actual proc rate well above 1 PPM. None of this benefits the offhand in any way, though, which is why proc enchants for the offhand tend to be of far less use than on the mainhand.
+20 STR to the offhand is better than Crusader, sadly.
+20 STR to the offhand is better than Crusader, sadly.
Even with 20 str to mh, it's not so bad even if crusader can equal that.
20 str is always on, crusader has to proc. Many fights it doesn't even proc (while grinding), or it procs at a lower than expected rate (sometimes at a higher than expected rate too).
Chance vs Constant. I personally go for 20 str. Those damn orbs are a pain to farm, or cost more (on my server) than they should.
20 str is always on, crusader has to proc. Many fights it doesn't even proc (while grinding), or it procs at a lower than expected rate (sometimes at a higher than expected rate too).
Chance vs Constant. I personally go for 20 str. Those damn orbs are a pain to farm, or cost more (on my server) than they should.
devioususer wrote:
Even with 20 str to mh, it's not so bad even if crusader can equal that.
20 str is always on, crusader has to proc. Many fights it doesn't even proc (while grinding), or it procs at a lower than expected rate (sometimes at a higher than expected rate too).
Chance vs Constant. I personally go for 20 str. Those damn orbs are a pain to farm, or cost more (on my server) than they should.
20 str is always on, crusader has to proc. Many fights it doesn't even proc (while grinding), or it procs at a lower than expected rate (sometimes at a higher than expected rate too).
Chance vs Constant. I personally go for 20 str. Those damn orbs are a pain to farm, or cost more (on my server) than they should.
The orbs aren't too bad for me to get, a guildy and I 2-man Strat regularly for money and average around 4 per run. Just lucky drops I guess.
I have heard similar debates about +15 agi and mongoose, with the +agi being a constant boost and the mongoose requiring a proc.
To each his own I suppose.
It's not really the same comparison. If Crusader provided 100 STR still, it would be superior to +20 STR on an average basis. At 60 STR, it's not, at least in terms of the offhand.
15 AGI vs. Mongoose isn't even close, since it provides 120. For the AGI to be the same as Mongoose, you'd have to have Mongoose up around 12% of the time; at fifteen second duration, this would assume a proc once every two minutes (.5 PPM), which it doesn't have.
15 AGI vs. Mongoose isn't even close, since it provides 120. For the AGI to be the same as Mongoose, you'd have to have Mongoose up around 12% of the time; at fifteen second duration, this would assume a proc once every two minutes (.5 PPM), which it doesn't have.
RPZip wrote:
It's not really the same comparison. If Crusader provided 100 STR still, it would be superior to +20 STR on an average basis. At 60 STR, it's not, at least in terms of the offhand.
15 AGI vs. Mongoose isn't even close, since it provides 120. For the AGI to be the same as Mongoose, you'd have to have Mongoose up around 12% of the time; at fifteen second duration, this would assume a proc once every two minutes (.5 PPM), which it doesn't have.
15 AGI vs. Mongoose isn't even close, since it provides 120. For the AGI to be the same as Mongoose, you'd have to have Mongoose up around 12% of the time; at fifteen second duration, this would assume a proc once every two minutes (.5 PPM), which it doesn't have.
Sounds good although I'm not entirely sure what you are saying.
Am I to understand that in your opinion +15 agi as a constant would be overall more beneficial than mongoose as a proc?
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be confrontational or be an ***, just genuinely interested in your opinion and was a little confused by the wording of your post.
As mongoose is, 120 agi for 15 seconds every minute = 30 Agi all the time.
But with the way instant attacks and PPM procs work, you should be getting more uptime than just 1 PPM.
It would be more like 1.25 or 1.5 PPM. Which means you get 120 Agi for 15 seconds every 48 seconds or 40 seconds. Which equates to 37.5 agi all the time or 45 agi all the time (optimally).
It would be more like 1.25 or 1.5 PPM. Which means you get 120 Agi for 15 seconds every 48 seconds or 40 seconds. Which equates to 37.5 agi all the time or 45 agi all the time (optimally).
Hi all, soo..
1. offhand proc rate is 50% of mainhand (no arguing, please check wowwiki before replying)
2. even when you see a "proc" 3 times in 20 sec only the healing part of crusader procs.. the +100 str is indeed only 1ppm (or so) (just check your character sheet when it procs.. no +100str)
So by no means crusader is meant to be viable for a lvl70 toon.
What I would do is sell the orbs to twinks and buy materials for a proper lvl70 enchant.
1. offhand proc rate is 50% of mainhand (no arguing, please check wowwiki before replying)
2. even when you see a "proc" 3 times in 20 sec only the healing part of crusader procs.. the +100 str is indeed only 1ppm (or so) (just check your character sheet when it procs.. no +100str)
So by no means crusader is meant to be viable for a lvl70 toon.
What I would do is sell the orbs to twinks and buy materials for a proper lvl70 enchant.
dw spec and hit gear dawg
Quote:
Hi all, soo..
1. offhand proc rate is 50% of mainhand (no arguing, please check wowwiki before replying)
2. even when you see a "proc" 3 times in 20 sec only the healing part of crusader procs.. the +100 str is indeed only 1ppm (or so) (just check your character sheet when it procs.. no +100str)
So by no means crusader is meant to be viable for a lvl70 toon.
What I would do is sell the orbs to twinks and buy materials for a proper lvl70 enchant.
1. offhand proc rate is 50% of mainhand (no arguing, please check wowwiki before replying)
2. even when you see a "proc" 3 times in 20 sec only the healing part of crusader procs.. the +100 str is indeed only 1ppm (or so) (just check your character sheet when it procs.. no +100str)
So by no means crusader is meant to be viable for a lvl70 toon.
What I would do is sell the orbs to twinks and buy materials for a proper lvl70 enchant.
1. Off hand does not have a flat 50% reduction in proc rate. It has the same PPM as the main hand but there are no extra attacks so it will average out to proc only once a minute. (before you post on this forum learn that wowwiki is not the end all be all truth of wow)
2. A single crusader enchant will not stack with itself. Separate crusader enchants will. However if you get a second proc off the same weapon the 100 str buff does proc and resets the timer. Ex. crusader procs, 10 seconds later it procs again, your crusader buffs duration was reset to 15 seconds.
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