My 2 CentsFollow

You had any points beyond venting?

Oooo, ease on the wall of text please.

I have read some of the posts that you linked, some I have not and thank you for the info. As to reconition, could care less about it.M y pallie is 38 at the moment and I would not even think of making any claim to being DPS king or any creature like that, I like the one I have and enjoy playing him and do my best to play him well in groups. But I am still trying to learn the ins and outs of the class. I was just typing a post to put my point of view out is all. If someone has info to pass I would love to read it. But as I have said, its seems that there are alot of people that just live to flame others. And like I said, I will probably recieve my fair share of abuse for posting my thoughts. Thats all...

Well to any action theres a reaction. But I agree it does seem like some of the people on these forums are looking for an excuse to flame you, for not knowing everything in the game. And I repeat some, not all.

Edit: up front I beg my pardon for this wall of text. I could not find less words to say what I wanted to.

To be honest, I totally second the OP's opinion. In fact I have been thinking lately to post a similar sounding thread, just to vent my opinion. I have read this board for ages now, contributing a few times when I felt I could, although there are always more experienced players who know the ins and outs better and many times I let them speak and learn from that myself.

Lately though, the board is not by far as much fun to read (nor as useful) as it used to be. Simply because of the reason the OP posted: there is only the bickering between the Retadins-are-good-dpsers and the no-way-that-Retadins-are-good-dpsers.

I even dare to point fingers at this point and I beg my pardon even before I do it, because I feel that one person in particular has taken his contribution from informative, strong posts that I always loved to read to fully disrespecting any choices for a Retadin. I am sorry to say that I am looking at you, Gaudion.

Yes I understand that people who come here may be misleaded (or not, I honestly do not care) about the dps possibilities of the Retadin. Yes I understand that that is the reason why you get so upset with Rets like Tommyguns or whomever speaks in favor of the Retadin dps. But please, these "misleaded" people, if or when they respec to Retribution, can see for themselves if they like it or not. Even if they get into raids with it or not.

If they do not like the outcome of being a Retadin, they will either respec or keep playing it simply because they find it more fun. It is as simple as that! Flaming the Retadins will only pollute the boards even further, whether it is justified or not.

I sincerly, truely and utterly hope (and I am mainly looking to you again, our old trusted Gaudion) that you refrain from these posts from now on and start adding to the information again, like I have come to know you. You ARE the best at that, always the right arguments and such, you know. I miss you.

Immunios

Edited, Sep 11th 2007 10:30am by Immunios

I agree. Bodhi. You are another one on my most respected posters-list. It is just so easy: just see Ret as a choice. Misleading is not necessarily a bad thing. It just makes people experience it instead of just reading about it and never know.

Some people just have more fun being a dps-paladin, whether it compares to other dps-ers or not.

Two thumbs up for acknowledging it!



Edited, Sep 11th 2007 10:45am by Immunios

Bodhi,

Fun is subjective. There are people having fun while being tied up on some frame and be beaten the living crap out of them. Just because you do not find it fun does not make it less fun for them. /smile

So there indeed ARE people having fun as a retribution paladin. I have been one for a few levels and while it was a LOT slower than levelling my rogue I had just as much fun. I only like protection a lot better (not for levelling speed mind you but for the invincibility-feeling).

Thing is you just cannot define fun for other people (as everyone should know by real life experience).

I understand that fun is subjective. The combat in PvE is without a doubt the most simplistic and unchallenging in the game. In PvP it becomes a little more frantic, as all combat does. However it still is simplistic in comparison to other classes and it also suffers from a number of various set backs in terms of viability. If it floats your boat, well then 'to each their own' as the saying goes. I've never started an argument with a guy just because he specced ret.

My problem is when people start arguing that it is not what it is. You could listen to pop music and I would never fault you for it, however if you try to argue that "Oop's I did it again!" is a technically blazing and as innovative a piece of music as Mozart, or even King Crimson then I am going to words with you.

Which is where it comes back to the point. Play ret if you enjoy it. It is a game afterall, have fun. Just Don't try to justify it by telling me it is what it isn't though. I know better.

I did come off a little too harsh on ret combat.

The problem with the ret issue is that it has been pigeonholed as DPS when it quite clearly is not. The only real issue in terms of DPS is that of sustained vs burst damage in raids. 5 man and PvP damage is fine. The problem in terms of PvE 5man or raid content can be summed up as threat, with a smattering of utility issues causing limited spots for ret in end game groups compared to other classes. With PvP it is not damage but instead the lack of interrupts and stuns that cause it to be a problem.

So in the end I don't have a problem with people being ret. I guess my problem is that when someone comes in trying to sell "Ret does great dps, we don't have problems" I have to clarify that there are problems that are not dps related that hamper and marginalize the class.

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as they understand that it's wrong.

Gaudion just made me sad :(

When it comes to a debate, I much rather answer "I disagree, this is why".

If I can elevate the discussion about what is wrong with ret beyond dps I am a happy camper.

Sometimes though, someone makes an argument about ret paladins that is so woefully ignorant and based upon a thick stack of misconceptions and lack of knowledge that I cut the honest debate and go straight to the emasculation.

For example trying to argue ret viability by linking BG dps. First and foremost anyone worth addressing would already understand why links to bg screenshots mean nothing. Secondly DPS in PvP is not the issue. So it like arguing that breaking the small side of the egg is the real cause behind teenage abortion in Swift Current Alberta. Yet the person expects to be taken seriously.