Hi
I’m reading a lot trying to understand what will be the best Warlock build that will to the best DPS with some PVP options.
There are a lot of article but I can’t understand what build will be the best build for PvE and some PvP.
Can some1 help? Can some1 link build examples for this needed?
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Best build for Warlock for PvE / some PvPFollow
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The best PvE/PvP build is Affliction or Demonoligy spec, im to lazy to make you one link build tough. in short terms i can say that Afflition spec = Endless mana and powerful DoT and Drain abilities. Demonoly = High Hp and more focus on Pet dmg, and off course you get the Soul Link that is useful to :)
This happens to be a good all-in-one build:
http://wowhead.com/?talent=IVMriRfkqtbobxZxx0z
Not as good as 23/38/0 for PvP, and not as godd as 0/21/40 for raiding, but properly geared, you can hold your own in both situations.
http://wowhead.com/?talent=IVMriRfkqtbobxZxx0z
Not as good as 23/38/0 for PvP, and not as godd as 0/21/40 for raiding, but properly geared, you can hold your own in both situations.
The reason you can't find much info on "the best" is that there really is no best. Your build depends on your playstyle. Though the build posted above mine is close to what I used for both PvE and PvP and it worked great, it suits how I play.
So for pure PVP I should use 23/38/0 and for pure Instances / raids I should use 0/21/40?
If I will use the linked build above what will be the right way to use these spells? Also is this build involved pet as part of the DPS or at this build we are not using the pet?
If I will use the linked build above what will be the right way to use these spells? Also is this build involved pet as part of the DPS or at this build we are not using the pet?
Not "should use", but those are the specs that most people have the greatest success with. With the build I posted, the pet you use determines on what you are doing. For PvE, the imp on passive is great because he provides you with Blood Pact and his high mana regen makes him a great mana battery. For PvP, the fel hunter is recommended because of Spell Lock, Devour Magic, and Paranoia. If you ever check my armory you'll see I commonly have Paranoia up, which means I use the fel hunter. I do this because I am on PvP server, and he's useful against allies who are attacking me. He also has decent melee dps and is the second best mana battery.
20/0/41 this is a good hybrid pvp/pve talent build. you benefit from both more powerful SBs and dots, so allowing you to vary your play style, which is this talent build's biggest strength in a pvp environment.
if you want to make it more pvp than pve, then remove the improved CoA and empowered corruption talent points and put those 5 into felconcentration so that if you're stuck with someone in your face you can still drain tank them
if you want to make it more pvp than pve, then remove the improved CoA and empowered corruption talent points and put those 5 into felconcentration so that if you're stuck with someone in your face you can still drain tank them
By the way, the builds in question are:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Iq0rVRbkoZbxczIizzes
and
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IZbxczIdzZxt0tr0tmuV
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Iq0rVRbkoZbxczIizzes
and
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IZbxczIdzZxt0tr0tmuV
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this is a good hybrid pvp/pve talent build. you benefit from both more powerful SBs and dots, so allowing you to vary your play style, which is this talent build's biggest strength in a pvp environment.
My objections to this build are the lack of Demonic Embrace and no Fel Concentration both of which are important to a warlock in PvP. Stamina is a warlock's primary defense in PvP, as we don't have Blink, Frost Nova, Power Word: Shield, or any of the other mage and priest defenses. The best we can do is stack on stamina and resilience, and Demonic Embrace helps to boost that.
Also, you don't cast too many Shadow Bolts in PvP, the 2.5-3.0 second cast time roots you in place and open you to silence effects. Most of the time, a warlock wants to cast their insta cast DoT on their target and kite them, casting Drain Life when needed to stay alive.
Edit: Saw your comments on Drain Life. One thing to keep in mind is that Destruction is arguably the weakest of the 3 specs for PvP. It works in the BG and 5 man Arena, but for 2 man, 3 man, and world PvP, it lack survivability.
Edited, Sep 10th 2007 11:22am by Delily
Edited, Sep 10th 2007 11:22am by Delily
for world pvp destruction is actually very viable with your succy out. for group pvp and BGs it's very viable too but yeah, it's definately not an arena spec as that's all about hp and resiliance. though I'll agree that the spec lacks hp, it makes up for that through it's versitility but you really do have to be willing to change your tactics for each class you come up against.
p.s. personnally I think stamina is over-rated in world and group pvp. it's more to do with tactics, knowledge of the other class, who gets the initial jump and how well you can adapt to changes. the 20/0/41 and other variants covers all these the best out of all specs I've tried for a few reasons:
1. it's less reliant on a pet than most of our specs
2. it's powerful for both nuking and dots
3. the ability to aoe stun on a short cd and cast allows for you to generate enough distance / get in fears
4. with the sucubus you can fully 'stun-charm lock' a opponent without them having any chance of moving or retaliating short of blowing their trinkets / racials
5. it's good for both close combat and ranged
p.s. personnally I think stamina is over-rated in world and group pvp. it's more to do with tactics, knowledge of the other class, who gets the initial jump and how well you can adapt to changes. the 20/0/41 and other variants covers all these the best out of all specs I've tried for a few reasons:
1. it's less reliant on a pet than most of our specs
2. it's powerful for both nuking and dots
3. the ability to aoe stun on a short cd and cast allows for you to generate enough distance / get in fears
4. with the sucubus you can fully 'stun-charm lock' a opponent without them having any chance of moving or retaliating short of blowing their trinkets / racials
5. it's good for both close combat and ranged
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1. it's less reliant on a pet than most of our specs
I;ve never understood why people say that relyig on the demon is a bad thing. It requires a little guessing as to which one to have, but the demons are a pet of the class...
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3. the ability to aoe stun on a short cd and cast allows for you to generate enough distance / get in fears
Confused, your spec doesn't have Pyroclasm.
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4. with the sucubus you can fully 'stun-charm lock' a opponent without them having any chance of moving or retaliating short of blowing their trinkets / racials
Confused by this one. Seduction has a DR like Fear, and breaks on damage, if they blow a trinket or racial it will have the same effect as Fear.. Could you clarify this one?
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p.s. personnally I think stamina is over-rated in world and group pvp.
Agree with this, so long as you've got a tight knit group.
What do you think about this proposed build 43/7/11? Is it good for PvE/ PvP Build?
unlike fear, if you use your succy right when you charm an opponenent you won't be close to them (or if they got the jump on you, you can run away while they're being charmed). this way if they blow a CD to get out of it they're not in instant reach of you. giving you time to react and plan. also the 'charm-stun lock', you charm. get to max range, SB, Sfury, immolate (start casting recharm) conflagorate (charm lands). wait till near the end of charm, do SB, immolate, deathcoil, conflag (start recharm 1.5sec from DC wearing off). then SB nuke till Sfury and seduce DR are back up and rince and repeat.
about the pet thing. we are warlocks. 2 of our specs are heavily reliant on having the right pet out at the right time to beable to win in pvp (afliction and demo specs). destruction specs though can win vs most classes if played right WITHOUT a pet. this way if they decide to kill your pet before going for you you're not as screwed as you would usually be. I'm not saying to run around without a pet. just that we don't become headless chickens without one.
why not have pyroclasm? well because it's a **** talent and a complete waste. for starters destruction DOES NOT IMPLY THAT YOU ARE FIRE, 2ndly the only stun from it that's remotely useful is the soulfire one and heck, i almost never use that spell, forstarters it screws over the "charm-stun lock" pattern as soulfire travels faster than shadowbolt so rogues get a chance to CloLOL before Sfury lands
about the pet thing. we are warlocks. 2 of our specs are heavily reliant on having the right pet out at the right time to beable to win in pvp (afliction and demo specs). destruction specs though can win vs most classes if played right WITHOUT a pet. this way if they decide to kill your pet before going for you you're not as screwed as you would usually be. I'm not saying to run around without a pet. just that we don't become headless chickens without one.
why not have pyroclasm? well because it's a **** talent and a complete waste. for starters destruction DOES NOT IMPLY THAT YOU ARE FIRE, 2ndly the only stun from it that's remotely useful is the soulfire one and heck, i almost never use that spell, forstarters it screws over the "charm-stun lock" pattern as soulfire travels faster than shadowbolt so rogues get a chance to CloLOL before Sfury lands
Thanks for clarification there on Seduction.
I don't agree that Affliction is pet reliant. Having the imp out makes grinding easier, and the fel hunter offers some utilities to negate a caster, but if either is killed, I am not a headless chicken. Heck, it's fun when someone does try to kill the fel hunter. It's basically giving me time to land all the DoTs on them.
Whoa, whoa, I was asking for clarification when you said "the ability to aoe stun on a short cd and cast allows for you to generate enough distance / get in fears" when you didn't have Pyroclasm. As far as I know, Pyroclasm is the only stun in the Destruction line, so when you said that, I am wondering if there is another AoE stun I am missing.
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about the pet thing. we are warlocks. 2 of our specs are heavily reliant on having the right pet out at the right time to beable to win in pvp (afliction and demo specs). destruction specs though can win vs most classes if played right WITHOUT a pet. this way if they decide to kill your pet before going for you you're not as screwed as you would usually be. I'm not saying to run around without a pet. just that we don't become headless chickens without one.
I don't agree that Affliction is pet reliant. Having the imp out makes grinding easier, and the fel hunter offers some utilities to negate a caster, but if either is killed, I am not a headless chicken. Heck, it's fun when someone does try to kill the fel hunter. It's basically giving me time to land all the DoTs on them.
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why not have pyroclasm? well because it's a sh*t talent and a complete waste. for starters destruction DOES NOT IMPLY THAT YOU ARE FIRE, 2ndly the only stun from it that's remotely useful is the soulfire one and heck, i almost never use that spell, forstarters it screws over the "charm-stun lock" pattern as soulfire travels faster than shadowbolt so rogues get a chance to CloLOL before Sfury lands
Whoa, whoa, I was asking for clarification when you said "the ability to aoe stun on a short cd and cast allows for you to generate enough distance / get in fears" when you didn't have Pyroclasm. As far as I know, Pyroclasm is the only stun in the Destruction line, so when you said that, I am wondering if there is another AoE stun I am missing.
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As far as I know, Pyroclasm is the only stun in the Destruction line, so when you said that, I am wondering if there is another AoE stun I am missing.
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Shadow Fury.
Ahh, thanks for reminding me about that. See so many people talk going 40 points into Destro that I forget about the 41 point talent.
just to point out... every tree has a 41 pointer :P
Yeah, yeah. The problem is, when we compare the lines, we compare Unstable Affliction, the fel guard, and Ruin. Shadowfury is almost never mentioned, and people always talk about x/x/40, that's it's easy to forget what Shadowfury does.
shadowfury is amazing. 20second 0.5sec cast aoe stun that does alright damage... one of the best 41 pointers imo from all classes for pvp.
Os for the bottom-line is the build that I poster above is good for PvE and some PvP?
Wellm what kind of PvP and PvE are we talking about here? BG's, Arena, 5 man heriocs, raids, what do you like to do?
I like doing Instances and started to do raids.
Just some PvP but most of my play is Instances.
I you have a build please link it or if one of the build above will do just please tell me.
Just some PvP but most of my play is Instances.
I you have a build please link it or if one of the build above will do just please tell me.
sounds like bg's and arena's aren't in your immediate future so I suggest you go with the affliction tree. It offers modest pvp abilities compared to demo but you will be able to still kill things. It does help more in instances since the bulk of your time is going to be for instances.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Ii0rVRfkqtbobxcuub
is something close to maybe what you might want. It's mostly affliction/some demo for survivability but your main focus will still be to just dot everyone on the opposing team in BG's, damage everything that you can, try to seduce someone else, and mass fear bomb while drain tanking as much as possible.
You won't have the survivability of a full demo lock but you will be able to do instances pretty easily. Feel free to move some more points out of fel armor/secubbus/master demonologist if you want, and put it into improved drain soul/imp agony if that's your thing.
its just an example, feel free to alter it any way you want
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Ii0rVRfkqtbobxcuub
is something close to maybe what you might want. It's mostly affliction/some demo for survivability but your main focus will still be to just dot everyone on the opposing team in BG's, damage everything that you can, try to seduce someone else, and mass fear bomb while drain tanking as much as possible.
You won't have the survivability of a full demo lock but you will be able to do instances pretty easily. Feel free to move some more points out of fel armor/secubbus/master demonologist if you want, and put it into improved drain soul/imp agony if that's your thing.
its just an example, feel free to alter it any way you want
Eh, that build sudo posted doesn't look like it's good for much. Instance trash it's going to lack any kind of punch and instance bosses you're still going to be severely lacking in the power department.
This build is going to represent the better damage you're looking for in instances. 5/5 Shadow Embrace is included to cover you in raiding and for instances with under geared tanks (5% damage reduction is pretty significant). Your seduces won't last as long but using focus frames and a decent macro will cover that. 5/5 Fel concentration is useful purely for farming, but it's included also. In all you'll sacrifice a decent amount of HP for a significant upgrade in damage for instances and raids as well as utility. Shadowburn is excluded from the build because it's either a PvP talent for a quick KB or a way to pad your damage in instances by getting in a 1.1k last hit on every mob. In either event, having the 10% lower aggro from destructive reach will help much more than a bit of damage padding.
This build is going to represent the better damage you're looking for in instances. 5/5 Shadow Embrace is included to cover you in raiding and for instances with under geared tanks (5% damage reduction is pretty significant). Your seduces won't last as long but using focus frames and a decent macro will cover that. 5/5 Fel concentration is useful purely for farming, but it's included also. In all you'll sacrifice a decent amount of HP for a significant upgrade in damage for instances and raids as well as utility. Shadowburn is excluded from the build because it's either a PvP talent for a quick KB or a way to pad your damage in instances by getting in a 1.1k last hit on every mob. In either event, having the 10% lower aggro from destructive reach will help much more than a bit of damage padding.
go with loki's build =)
I just made that up so that he'd some some extra sustainability in pvp but I think he probably will benefit more from your suggestions.
I just made that up so that he'd some some extra sustainability in pvp but I think he probably will benefit more from your suggestions.
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