IndecisionFollow

1.) Curator is a poison immune boss, but even still mutilate will still outdamage every other class just due to the nature of the fight.

2.) Mutilate is far from useless in a raid setting, but combat daggers will in fact out shine it there. However if you go combat daggers you become near useless at pvp.

3.) Going Combat Mutilate not only makes you still #2-#3 DPS, it makes you great at pvp as well.

So it's in your hands: do you want to suck at pvp and be the best at PvE, or do you want to be in the top 5 for PvE and dominate pvp?

I have actually had no problems with my DPS being mut/combat specced, even on poison immune mobs. You still have the bonus to your OH damage, and with the high CP generation it is easy to consitantly keep rupture, snd, and envenom/eviserate going in a good rotation.

O_o

I fully admit I'm a noob, but I'm 60, mute, and was looking forward to getting envenom. Your post suggests that is suck. Could you elaborate on this?

Or, were you just laughing about using envenom on a poison immune?

AR + BF + S&D that you have plenty of time to put up by the time you're on Curator himself, you aren't going to outdamage that with a poison-less mutilate.



Agreed that Mutilate isn't really terrible in PvE, but it is lackluster overall compared to a Combat spec. However, being in Salwrath's raid (he replaced me on this Curator fight we're talking about here, due to the fact that I was tired and sick of wiping on fights we should be one-shotting), he won't be #2 or #3, he'll be 4th or 5, particularly low with his current gear. (Your HWL weapons need upgrading, seriously)

Honestly Salwrathis, anything Combat is where you want to be. If you want to do good in PvP as well as PvE (you should be raid specced-ish, no matter what you do), go Combat Maces or Combat Fists, or something not Daggers, and you'll do fine. Nelfbane (he goes by Mageoken here) is combat fists, and he does fine on the DPS meters with his Merc. gear.

1. No kidding, you sure are smart. Read the tooltip to learn that vast wealth of knowledge? DW spec gives you alot more white damage, and imp snd helps with that. Pull your head out of your ***. I know it's gimped, I'm just saying that it still performs well thanks to much higher cp generation. Yes combat daggers is better for Raiding, but that is all it is good for.

Mutilate CAN still crit on poison immune mobs, sure its less damage than a BS crit, but you just got 3 combo points. having constant finishers up is going to help greatly.

2. Yes I use envenom, obviously not on poison immune mobs, that's why I said eviscerate/envenom. If I am fighting a high armor target, I have rupture and snd going and I have a full stack of DP I am going to use envenom. What would you use? I love the fact that people like you can pick through a post, that wasn't negative in any way, and try to flame me based on keywords I used. You should be a politician when you decide to grow up.

Actually with 5/5 imp poisons it takes me no where near that long to get a full stack of deadly poison on my target

1) While mute isn't ideal for poison imune targets, I agree that it's not nearly as bad as some people suggest. It's just not good for learning certain boss fights (IE: hydros). You could make that same argument for void reaver except he's more of a joke and it really doesn't matter unless the rest of your raid DPS is also gimp. I could see not wanting it for curiator, but in the long run it's only a problem for the learning phases of the fight. I did kara as 41/20 mute until my guild started doing hydros and such. And truth be told, if I was still raiding (fecking college) I could swap back at this point as we wouldn't need the extra bit of DPS for him (hydros) anymore. You have to remember, curiator is poison immune... but last time I checked (and this may have changed) his flares weren't. Mute used to be great for that part of the fight because the burst damage and CP generation was so high. 2x deadly and imp poisons... good chance of getting a poison to land quick...

2) You should, in general, be using eviscerate against any raid debuffed mob. Envenom's uses are very limited. While the concept of having a finisher with instant damage that negates armor is great, you also have to remember that you lose DPS when your poisons are wiped. The simple solution is to run 2x deadly, which will get stacks up faster but will also cause a loss in DPS due to extra procs that don't do any damage (anything past a 5 stack does nothing). The ideal poison combination for raiding is a mix of 1x deadly and 1x instant or windfury. The choice of which hand to run each on depends on build and gear (mostly hit and off hand speed). When I used mute I always had deadly OH, instant MH. Combat daggers was the same (and I often used shiv at the very start of a fight to get up my SnD cycle faster). Combat swords was always WF + DP... If I had less hit I would probably have had IP on the OH and deadly MH for the combat builds... but truth be told... with your hit sitting right around the cap you waste DP procs even if you are only running it on your OH...

Edited, Sep 6th 2007 8:24pm by LordMeridus

That's not true actually. The extra ~1-2k bonus damage envenom does over eviscerate outshines the 3 or so ticks you'll miss without 5 points on the target. Plus mutilate talents are meant to increase the poisoning speed so although you may remove the five charges, you'll never actually have the mob NOT taking a DoT due to how fast you'll be putting them back up there.

Envenom > Eviscerate.

Not to be rude, but how ******* hard is it to quote properly?

And yes, you did say every class, sorry, I missed it. However, the point that "Mutilate will outdps other classes" is really irrelevent, you should be putting up the Max damage you can put out, not focusing on "well I'm #1 spot (he wouldn't be, but thats besides the pojnt), I don't need to worry about what I'm doing or get any better"

Find me a rogue doing more than 1k DPS while using envenom.

You won't find any, because any rogue that uses it is a scrub and doesn't know how to DPS.

apparently you're not very good at reading


if you get a few pvp talents in combat it becomes good

if you don't get ANY it sucks quite hard compared to other specs. will it still be better than say... prot warrior pvp? duh.

I take Imp. Sprint and Endurance, though Endurance is interchangable with Imp. Kick or other things. But yes, Imp. Sprint is a must, I get a lot of use out of it completely outside PvP.

Okay, did you even read my post? I openly admitted that combat was better in a raid. The reason I'm still mut is because I also like to PVP, and It's fun. You know what that is right? Sure tell me all about combat, I really don't care, it's not my playstyle. I was combat maces all the way up to my mid 50's and I just didn't think it was that fun.

Get off your pedestal, everyone has their own play style and original my comment was not meant for you it was meant for the OP. Does anyone besides Shoa even try to offer constructive criticism without being rude about it? I don't care about you or your opinion, which you didn't even back up with facts, so leave me alone.