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Warrior Level 70 PvE DPS F.A.QFollow
Claim of the first multi page discussion in quite some time.
Quote:
but if I see a dy/dx in theorycraft my head probably will explode.
*BOOOOOM*
Nah, I hear you. I feel somewhat the same way.
But, really DPS rolls out to a pretty simple equation, figuring out which part is the best part to increase in comparison to any other becomes improbable.
DPS of Weapon (speed and all that) + AP modifier + haste rating modifier (flurry/weapons) + crit modifier + to hit modifier + buffs - miss chance (glancing/dodge/etc...)
Makes rolling a 2h warrior with imp slam much much easier math to figure out.
I don't think it'll be impossible to figure out, just time consuming.
Summary;
Assess current AP (add 10% more)
Assess current Crit Rating (add 10%)
Assess current Hit Rating (Cap it out later, get your minimum, add 10% more)
Assess current Haste Rating (add 10% more)
Assess your current raid buffs (add 10% more
)Quote:
1. Assess current AP (add 10% more)
2. Assess current Crit Rating (add 10%)
3. Assess current Hit Rating (Cap it out later, get your minimum, add 10% more)
4. Assess current Haste Rating (add 10% more)
5. Assess your current raid buffs (add 10% more )
Go to 1
2. Assess current Crit Rating (add 10%)
3. Assess current Hit Rating (Cap it out later, get your minimum, add 10% more)
4. Assess current Haste Rating (add 10% more)
5. Assess your current raid buffs (add 10% more )
Go to 1
ftfy
Quote:
Quote:
I specced d/w tonight for the fun of letting another tank tank. No, it does not get full AP.
With 2500 ap and a 91.1 dps offhand I got something like 210 DPS on tooltip (hard to tell sometimes when your paying more attention to the bottle and threat meter than exact numbers).
Are you forgetting to factor in Battle Shout or other buffs? The number is too high for that AP number.
Quote:
I specced d/w tonight for the fun of letting another tank tank. No, it does not get full AP.
With 2500 ap and a 91.1 dps offhand I got something like 210 DPS on tooltip (hard to tell sometimes when your paying more attention to the bottle and threat meter than exact numbers).
Are you forgetting to factor in Battle Shout or other buffs? The number is too high for that AP number.
Yeah, should have been around 165-170. I was sitting at 2500 pre rampage and shaman.
Quote:
But, really DPS rolls out to a pretty simple equation, figuring out which part is the best part to increase in comparison to any other becomes improbable.
Good luck figuring out the exact haste modifier from Flurry without your head going boom, much less how it factors into anything else. =p
I don't think that you can really get good math here, but I can try with a spreadsheet... the problem is how Rage relates to your attacks and calculating when you'll become Rage starved, but that's a whole other layer of complexity.
Quote:
The hit rating requirements are off. I know it's based off the WoWWiki numbers, but if you go in game with 127/128 hit rating you'll be at the cap as 2H/1H + Shield, not 138. WoWWiki truncates the % needed for 1% hit slightly, resulting in incorrect numbers as you get more and more
Yet in game when i'm ms/imp slam with 135 hit rating (no precision) (how to get that last rating point?) the tooltip reads 8.56% to hit chance. Isn't the hit cap for 2h (sword and board too) 8.6%?
Quote:
the problem is how Rage relates to your attacks and calculating when you'll become Rage starved,
I'd rather be over raged than under raged... I've been working on a spreadsheet as well. but I got a really really old one to start from (60's AQ40/Nax gear base numbers).
Edited, Sep 10th 2007 11:28am by devioususer
Maybe I'm out of my mind. I'll check again in a minute.
Actually, I know what I was thinking of... it's ~126/7 with Weapon Expertise, which adds hit rating.
Oops.
It's Jimp's fault.
Actually, I know what I was thinking of... it's ~126/7 with Weapon Expertise, which adds hit rating.
Oops.
It's Jimp's fault.
What? I just gave you the drugs I didn't make you inhale! lol
And please call me Jim.
And please call me Jim.
Ok, so weapon skill gives .04% to hit.
So 4 weapon skill from weapon mastery would be .16% to hit.
86 / 15.8 = 5.44
5.44 + 3 (precision) + .16 (4 weapon skill) = 8.6
I'll redo some math.
Looks like 88 / 15.8 < 5.6
89 / 15.8 > 5.6.
So 4 weapon skill from weapon mastery would be .16% to hit.
86 / 15.8 = 5.44
5.44 + 3 (precision) + .16 (4 weapon skill) = 8.6
I'll redo some math.
Looks like 88 / 15.8 < 5.6
89 / 15.8 > 5.6.
Updated hit ratings. Changed some wording.
I'm gonna do a pots and consumables section soon. I just gotta run through all the different types.
Pots/elixirs/flasks
Scrolls
Food
Other professions doodads
Since i'm an alch myself, that takes like... 50% of consumables out of the equation. I don't recall if scrolls stack with buffs, but I don't think they do if they are the same stat (like arcane brilliance and an int scroll don't stack). But food stacks well and with the pot nerf (gaurdian/battle crap) the pots are affecting you correctly.
Yeah..
I'm gonna do a pots and consumables section soon. I just gotta run through all the different types.
Pots/elixirs/flasks
Scrolls
Food
Other professions doodads
Since i'm an alch myself, that takes like... 50% of consumables out of the equation. I don't recall if scrolls stack with buffs, but I don't think they do if they are the same stat (like arcane brilliance and an int scroll don't stack). But food stacks well and with the pot nerf (gaurdian/battle crap) the pots are affecting you correctly.
Yeah..
Short version of that discussion:
Food stacks with everything. Get Roasted Clefthoof (+20 STR), as it's the best damage food.
There are no good Guardian Elixirs for damage. The best Battle Elixir for damage output is either Fel Strength (+90 AP, -10 STA) or Mongoose (effective 46 Crit Rating with Kings, 44.5 without). The third is going to be Major Strength (+77 AP with Kings, +70 without) depending upon your current gear setup and needs. In most cases Fel Strength is going to be better unless you're incredibly short on crit, but Mongoose is better if you may have to tank at some point (also provides ~1% Dodge, and doesn't lower Stamina).
Scrolls don't stack with Pots or Buffs of any kind (like, say... Mark of the Wild, which also provides +20 STR) so they're not relevant.
For potions, the best are Insane Strength (+120 STR, -75 Defense - Do Not Pull Aggro) or Haste (+400 Haste Rating). Up until the patch Haste clearly wins for anything but Slam builds, after the patch it's much less clear. With that said, Haste Potions are likely still better for DW Fury. For 2H, Insane Strength all the way (although Haste is useful during execute spam range).
As for Sharpening Stones (offhand only - WF FTW!), Adamantite Sharpening Stones are better than Elemental Sharpening Stones. Even assuming a 2.7 speed weapon, 4.4 DPS (~62 AP) is better than .63% Crit.
Food stacks with everything. Get Roasted Clefthoof (+20 STR), as it's the best damage food.
There are no good Guardian Elixirs for damage. The best Battle Elixir for damage output is either Fel Strength (+90 AP, -10 STA) or Mongoose (effective 46 Crit Rating with Kings, 44.5 without). The third is going to be Major Strength (+77 AP with Kings, +70 without) depending upon your current gear setup and needs. In most cases Fel Strength is going to be better unless you're incredibly short on crit, but Mongoose is better if you may have to tank at some point (also provides ~1% Dodge, and doesn't lower Stamina).
Scrolls don't stack with Pots or Buffs of any kind (like, say... Mark of the Wild, which also provides +20 STR) so they're not relevant.
For potions, the best are Insane Strength (+120 STR, -75 Defense - Do Not Pull Aggro) or Haste (+400 Haste Rating). Up until the patch Haste clearly wins for anything but Slam builds, after the patch it's much less clear. With that said, Haste Potions are likely still better for DW Fury. For 2H, Insane Strength all the way (although Haste is useful during execute spam range).
As for Sharpening Stones (offhand only - WF FTW!), Adamantite Sharpening Stones are better than Elemental Sharpening Stones. Even assuming a 2.7 speed weapon, 4.4 DPS (~62 AP) is better than .63% Crit.
Updated.
Yeah I know all about the different pots/elixirs. And I'm writing a short document so far that is the pro/con of flask vs. elixir. Say for new instances or instances on farm.
Flasks are good for when your trying new material, esp ones with out easy resets and wipes occur often.
Elixirs are usually overall better, if you have an instance to the point of one shotting most of it (even kara and beyond) in reasonable time, due to cost of materials.
Yeah I know all about the different pots/elixirs. And I'm writing a short document so far that is the pro/con of flask vs. elixir. Say for new instances or instances on farm.
Flasks are good for when your trying new material, esp ones with out easy resets and wipes occur often.
Elixirs are usually overall better, if you have an instance to the point of one shotting most of it (even kara and beyond) in reasonable time, due to cost of materials.
Ok, did some more math in response to Xordan;
This is just to prove their math and show people why 8 strength gem is better for BT damage than the 8 Crit gem is.
5000 AP * .45 (BT damage mulitplier) * 1.33 (crit chance) = 2992.5
5016 * .45 * 1.33 = 3002.076
5000 * .45 * 1.3335 (.35% from crit gem) = 3000.375
5500 * .45 * 1.33 = 3291.75
5516 * .45 * 1.33 = 3301.326
5500 * .45 * 1.3335 = 3300.4125
6000 * .45 * 1.33 = 3591
6016 * .45 * 1.33 = 3600.576
6000 * .45 * 1.3335 = 3600.45
6100 * .45 * 1.33 = 3650.85
6116 * .45 * 1.33 = 3660.426
6100 * .45 * 1.3335 = 3660.4575
And it trickles up from their.
After doing all this work. I realized I just have to find a crit % increase equal to 9.576.
X * .45 * .0035 = 9.576
X = 6080
:EDIT: Must prove work;
6096 * .45 * 1.33 = 3648.456
6080 * .45 * 1.3335 = 3648.456
6080 is the AP breakpoint for BT with 8 Crit gems and 8 Strength Gems. With 33% crit rate.
Edited, Sep 11th 2007 5:44pm by devioususer
Edited, Sep 11th 2007 5:51pm by devioususer
This is just to prove their math and show people why 8 strength gem is better for BT damage than the 8 Crit gem is.
5000 AP * .45 (BT damage mulitplier) * 1.33 (crit chance) = 2992.5
5016 * .45 * 1.33 = 3002.076
5000 * .45 * 1.3335 (.35% from crit gem) = 3000.375
5500 * .45 * 1.33 = 3291.75
5516 * .45 * 1.33 = 3301.326
5500 * .45 * 1.3335 = 3300.4125
6000 * .45 * 1.33 = 3591
6016 * .45 * 1.33 = 3600.576
6000 * .45 * 1.3335 = 3600.45
6100 * .45 * 1.33 = 3650.85
6116 * .45 * 1.33 = 3660.426
6100 * .45 * 1.3335 = 3660.4575
And it trickles up from their.
After doing all this work. I realized I just have to find a crit % increase equal to 9.576.
X * .45 * .0035 = 9.576
X = 6080
:EDIT: Must prove work;
6096 * .45 * 1.33 = 3648.456
6080 * .45 * 1.3335 = 3648.456
6080 is the AP breakpoint for BT with 8 Crit gems and 8 Strength Gems. With 33% crit rate.
Edited, Sep 11th 2007 5:44pm by devioususer
Edited, Sep 11th 2007 5:51pm by devioususer
I'm fumbling with a formula that works for figuring out your own break point for crit/ap.
So far;
X = AP
Y = Your Crit %
Z1, Z2; If Z1 > Z2 then AP gem > Crit gem. If Z1 < Z2 then AP gem < Crit gem.
X * .45 * (100% + Y%) = Z
Now Z is used for this;
(X + 16) * .45 * (100% + Y%) = Z1
X * .45 * (100% + Y% + .35%) = Z2
So far;
X = AP
Y = Your Crit %
Z1, Z2; If Z1 > Z2 then AP gem > Crit gem. If Z1 < Z2 then AP gem < Crit gem.
X * .45 * (100% + Y%) = Z
Now Z is used for this;
(X + 16) * .45 * (100% + Y%) = Z1
X * .45 * (100% + Y% + .35%) = Z2
Quote:
I'm fumbling with a formula that works for figuring out your own break point for crit/ap.
So far;
X = AP
Y = Your Crit %
Z1, Z2; If Z1 > Z2 then AP gem > Crit gem. If Z1 < Z2 then AP gem < Crit gem.
X * .45 * (100% + Y%) = Z
Now Z is used for this;
(X + 16) * .45 * (100% + Y%) = Z1
X * .45 * (100% + Y% + .35%) = Z2
So far;
X = AP
Y = Your Crit %
Z1, Z2; If Z1 > Z2 then AP gem > Crit gem. If Z1 < Z2 then AP gem < Crit gem.
X * .45 * (100% + Y%) = Z
Now Z is used for this;
(X + 16) * .45 * (100% + Y%) = Z1
X * .45 * (100% + Y% + .35%) = Z2
You're not factoring in Impale or Imp. Zerker Stance, both of which will effect the outcome. =p
AP * .45 * (1.Crit% * 1.1)
Models average Bloodthirst damage, assuming Impale. (The Crit metagem would skew it even further, but it's much less universal than Impale is). Now, assuming for the moment that you have Blessing of Kings (+10% STR), Imp. Zerker Stance (+10% AP/STR) and Unleashed Rage for a moment... a +8 STR gem results in 10.65 STR, or aprox 21 AP. A Crit gem will provide .35% crit.
More math later.
Yha as Zip said your not factoring in impale or imp zerker or kings or unleashed fury for that matter. Kings and fury in there simply cause they are very common. Unless your me and you don't have any enhancement shaman in your guild *grumble*.
The real question is which gem increases your total dps the most, not just bloodthirst. But I'm pretty sure none of us want to go anywhere near the headache of calculating all factors relevant.
I'ma go with my gut and say that the crit gem will most likely come out on top for increase in total dps. My reasoning as I stated before is because the dps added from the crit gem isn't affected by miss, dodge, glance.
Nice work with the break point math for crit/ap though. Slight tweaking needed but still very nice. I smell another sticky.
The real question is which gem increases your total dps the most, not just bloodthirst. But I'm pretty sure none of us want to go anywhere near the headache of calculating all factors relevant.
I'ma go with my gut and say that the crit gem will most likely come out on top for increase in total dps. My reasoning as I stated before is because the dps added from the crit gem isn't affected by miss, dodge, glance.
Nice work with the break point math for crit/ap though. Slight tweaking needed but still very nice. I smell another sticky.
My bet is actually AP, by far. We get insane stacking bonuses from boosting AP, it provides a very large damage bonus to our primary damage ability (besides autoattack) and... *shrug*.
The math is hell, though.
The math is hell, though.
There are 3 bonuses to the STR gems; kings, imp zerker, and unleashed rage.
So 8 * 1.1 = 8.8 = 17.6 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 21.29 AP
That extra AP applies to white attacks and abilites. So if you run the math to figure out how much added dps that is forgoing anything else you get a base you can work with. Then you just deduct the percentage dps lost from miss (will vary from person to person) and dodge as a straight percent deduction. Glance will be a bit more difficult since it doesn't reduce dmg to 0 nor does it affect yellow attacks.
21.29 / 14 = 1.52 * 1.33 = 2.02 dps
2.02 * .056 = .113 (dodge)
2.02 * .126 = .255 (assuming 15% hit)
2.02 * .25 = .505 * .35 = .17675 (glance)
2.02 - .113 - .255 - .17675 = 1.475 dps to main hand
1.475 * .625 = .9219 dps to offhand
2.3969 Dps added to white dmg from AP
Gonna use 4000 AP since it's a more realistic number for most warriors.
BT numbers:
4000 * .45 * = 1800 * .33 = 594 * 1.2 = 712.8 (dmg increase from crit including impale(
1800 + 712.8 = 2512.8 (average dmg per BT)
4021.29 * .45 = 1809.58 * .33 = 597.16 * 1.2 = 716.59 (dmg increase from crit including impale)
1809.58 + 716.59 = 2526.17 (average dmg per BT)
13.37 dmg increase per BT (haha leet dmg)
10 BT per minute 133.7/60 = 2.23
2.23 * .056 = .1245 (dodge reduction)
2.1055 dps increase from BT
WW numbers:
4000/14 = 285.71 * 2.3 = 657.13 * .33 = 216.85 * 1.2 = 260.22 (dmg increase from crit with impale)
657.13 + 260.22 = 917.35 average dmg per WW (from AP)
4021.29/14 = 287.24 * 2.3 = 660.65 * .33 = 218.02 * 1.2 = 261.62 (dmg increase from crit with impale)
660.65 + 261.61 = 922.26 average dmg per WW (from AP)
4.91 dps increase per WW (from AP)
7.5 WW per minute (assuming Imp. WW) 36.825
36.825/60 = 0.61375 * .056 = .03437
.57938 dps increase from WW
HS numbers:
(2.6 weapon speed since it's very common for main hand weapons)
285.71 * 2.6 = 742.846 * .33 = 245.139 * 1.2 = 294.1668 (dmg increase from crit with impale)
742.846 + 294.1668 = 1037.01 average dmg per HS (from AP)
287.24 * 2.6 = 746.824 * .33 = 246.45 * 1.2 = 295.74 (dmg increase from crit with impale)
746.824 + 295.74 = 1042.56 average dmg per HS (from AP)
5.53 dmg increase per HS
Now we have to estimate how many HS you will shoot off in 60 seconds. I'll estimate 7.
38.71/60 = .6452 * .056 = .0361312
.6090688 dps increase from HS (approximately)
So total dps increase from the added str gem is 2.3969 + 2.1055 + .5794 + .6090 = 5.6908 total dps increase from str gem.
My head is smoking so I'll stop here. Will probably edit this later to dress it up a bit and/or possibly do the full math on the crit gem allowing for impale. Won't calculate extra flurry up time or extra deep wounds ticks since they will be insignificant and will make my head explode.
:EDITED to added glance math.
:EDITED again cause I gave white dmg the crit bonus twice.
Edited, Sep 13th 2007 12:50pm by Jimpadan
Edited, Sep 13th 2007 1:53pm by Jimpadan
So 8 * 1.1 = 8.8 = 17.6 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 21.29 AP
That extra AP applies to white attacks and abilites. So if you run the math to figure out how much added dps that is forgoing anything else you get a base you can work with. Then you just deduct the percentage dps lost from miss (will vary from person to person) and dodge as a straight percent deduction. Glance will be a bit more difficult since it doesn't reduce dmg to 0 nor does it affect yellow attacks.
21.29 / 14 = 1.52 * 1.33 = 2.02 dps
2.02 * .056 = .113 (dodge)
2.02 * .126 = .255 (assuming 15% hit)
2.02 * .25 = .505 * .35 = .17675 (glance)
2.02 - .113 - .255 - .17675 = 1.475 dps to main hand
1.475 * .625 = .9219 dps to offhand
2.3969 Dps added to white dmg from AP
Gonna use 4000 AP since it's a more realistic number for most warriors.
BT numbers:
4000 * .45 * = 1800 * .33 = 594 * 1.2 = 712.8 (dmg increase from crit including impale(
1800 + 712.8 = 2512.8 (average dmg per BT)
4021.29 * .45 = 1809.58 * .33 = 597.16 * 1.2 = 716.59 (dmg increase from crit including impale)
1809.58 + 716.59 = 2526.17 (average dmg per BT)
13.37 dmg increase per BT (haha leet dmg)
10 BT per minute 133.7/60 = 2.23
2.23 * .056 = .1245 (dodge reduction)
2.1055 dps increase from BT
WW numbers:
4000/14 = 285.71 * 2.3 = 657.13 * .33 = 216.85 * 1.2 = 260.22 (dmg increase from crit with impale)
657.13 + 260.22 = 917.35 average dmg per WW (from AP)
4021.29/14 = 287.24 * 2.3 = 660.65 * .33 = 218.02 * 1.2 = 261.62 (dmg increase from crit with impale)
660.65 + 261.61 = 922.26 average dmg per WW (from AP)
4.91 dps increase per WW (from AP)
7.5 WW per minute (assuming Imp. WW) 36.825
36.825/60 = 0.61375 * .056 = .03437
.57938 dps increase from WW
HS numbers:
(2.6 weapon speed since it's very common for main hand weapons)
285.71 * 2.6 = 742.846 * .33 = 245.139 * 1.2 = 294.1668 (dmg increase from crit with impale)
742.846 + 294.1668 = 1037.01 average dmg per HS (from AP)
287.24 * 2.6 = 746.824 * .33 = 246.45 * 1.2 = 295.74 (dmg increase from crit with impale)
746.824 + 295.74 = 1042.56 average dmg per HS (from AP)
5.53 dmg increase per HS
Now we have to estimate how many HS you will shoot off in 60 seconds. I'll estimate 7.
38.71/60 = .6452 * .056 = .0361312
.6090688 dps increase from HS (approximately)
So total dps increase from the added str gem is 2.3969 + 2.1055 + .5794 + .6090 = 5.6908 total dps increase from str gem.
My head is smoking so I'll stop here. Will probably edit this later to dress it up a bit and/or possibly do the full math on the crit gem allowing for impale. Won't calculate extra flurry up time or extra deep wounds ticks since they will be insignificant and will make my head explode.
:EDITED to added glance math.
:EDITED again cause I gave white dmg the crit bonus twice.
Edited, Sep 13th 2007 12:50pm by Jimpadan
Edited, Sep 13th 2007 1:53pm by Jimpadan
Okay.
A Crit Gem provides a .35% chance to add 120% of the original damage. What your current crit is _does not matter_, so we can eliminate that variable from the calculations; the question is simply at which point does the static increase to damage from Bloodthirst fall behind the multiplicative increase from the Crit gem.
A Strength Gem provides 8 STR * 2 = 16 AP * 1.1 = 17.6 (Imp. Zerker) * 1.1 = 19.35 (Kings) * 1.1 = 21.3 (Unleashed Rage) * .45 = 9.6 damage to Bloodthirst.
Assuming all of the Strength buffs and Impale, at what point does the Crit gem overtake the AP?
.45 * X + 0.0035 * 1.2 * (.45 * X) = .45 * (X + 21.3)
.45 * X + .0042 * (.45 * X) = .45 * X + 9.6
.45 * X + .0019 * X = .45 * X + 9.6
.4519 * X = .45 * X + 9.6
.0019 * X = 9.6
X = 5052
Time to test, since that number does look right to me. Assuming a 30% base crit rate (to demonstrate how it's not relevant to the breakpoint math, anyway)...
(.45 * 5052) + .3 * 1.2 * (.45 * 5052) = 2273 + .36 * 2273 = 3091
(.45 * 5052) + .3035 * 1.2 * (.45 * 5052) = 2273 + .3642 * 2273 = 3101
(.45 * 5073) + .3 * 1.2 * (.45 * 5073) = 2283 + .3 * 2283 = 3103
The slight difference is a compounded truncation error, since I'm not going to type out the math with eight digits after the decimal place. Since we've proven the formula works out, though, we can produce different results.
For Kings and Imp. Zerker and Unleashed Rage, the breakpoint is 5052 AP.
For two out of the three of Kings and Imp. Zerker and Unleashed Rage, the breakpoint is 4578.
For one out of the three of Kings and Imp. Zerker and Unleashed Rage, the breakpoint is 4168.
A Crit Gem provides a .35% chance to add 120% of the original damage. What your current crit is _does not matter_, so we can eliminate that variable from the calculations; the question is simply at which point does the static increase to damage from Bloodthirst fall behind the multiplicative increase from the Crit gem.
A Strength Gem provides 8 STR * 2 = 16 AP * 1.1 = 17.6 (Imp. Zerker) * 1.1 = 19.35 (Kings) * 1.1 = 21.3 (Unleashed Rage) * .45 = 9.6 damage to Bloodthirst.
Assuming all of the Strength buffs and Impale, at what point does the Crit gem overtake the AP?
.45 * X + 0.0035 * 1.2 * (.45 * X) = .45 * (X + 21.3)
.45 * X + .0042 * (.45 * X) = .45 * X + 9.6
.45 * X + .0019 * X = .45 * X + 9.6
.4519 * X = .45 * X + 9.6
.0019 * X = 9.6
X = 5052
Time to test, since that number does look right to me. Assuming a 30% base crit rate (to demonstrate how it's not relevant to the breakpoint math, anyway)...
(.45 * 5052) + .3 * 1.2 * (.45 * 5052) = 2273 + .36 * 2273 = 3091
(.45 * 5052) + .3035 * 1.2 * (.45 * 5052) = 2273 + .3642 * 2273 = 3101
(.45 * 5073) + .3 * 1.2 * (.45 * 5073) = 2283 + .3 * 2283 = 3103
The slight difference is a compounded truncation error, since I'm not going to type out the math with eight digits after the decimal place. Since we've proven the formula works out, though, we can produce different results.
For Kings and Imp. Zerker and Unleashed Rage, the breakpoint is 5052 AP.
For two out of the three of Kings and Imp. Zerker and Unleashed Rage, the breakpoint is 4578.
For one out of the three of Kings and Imp. Zerker and Unleashed Rage, the breakpoint is 4168.
Thanks for doing the break even math for Bt Zip. What I ment was I'ma edit and do the math to calculate how much the crit gem will increase your total dps given the stats I outlined when I did the Str gem math.
Probably won't get to that today though.
Edited, Sep 12th 2007 2:05pm by Jimpadan
Probably won't get to that today though.
Edited, Sep 12th 2007 2:05pm by Jimpadan
Looking at autoattacks, which is what I originally intended to examine.
Your mainhand receives 100% of the AP bonus to hits that connect. Assuming a 100 DPS mainhand weapon with 0 AP, 14% Hit (~175 Hit Rating + Precision) and 30% crit to demonstrate the combat table against a level 73 mob when attacking from behind.
0%: Parry (Damage x 0)
5.6%: Dodge (Damage x 0)
13.6%: Miss (Damage x 0)
25%: Glancing (Damage x .65)
30%: Crit (Damage x 2)
25.8%: Hit (Damage x 1)
Therefore, with the 100 DPS weapon...
Now, the offhand has the _exact same_ hit table, but recieves 62.5% of the AP bonus (with 5/5 DW Spec).
And I'll finish this later.
Your mainhand receives 100% of the AP bonus to hits that connect. Assuming a 100 DPS mainhand weapon with 0 AP, 14% Hit (~175 Hit Rating + Precision) and 30% crit to demonstrate the combat table against a level 73 mob when attacking from behind.
0%: Parry (Damage x 0)
5.6%: Dodge (Damage x 0)
13.6%: Miss (Damage x 0)
25%: Glancing (Damage x .65)
30%: Crit (Damage x 2)
25.8%: Hit (Damage x 1)
Therefore, with the 100 DPS weapon...
Parry: 100 x 0 x .0 = 0 Dodge: 100 x 0 x .056 = 0 Miss : 100 x 0 x .0136 = 0 Glanc: 100 x .65 x .25 = 16.25 Crit : 100 x 2.0 x .3 = 60 Hit : 100 x 1 x .258 = 25.8 Total: = 102.05
Now, the offhand has the _exact same_ hit table, but recieves 62.5% of the AP bonus (with 5/5 DW Spec).
And I'll finish this later.
I think I was including the crit % as a way for each player to find their personal breakpoint with the gear they have.
We should carry up to the .0000 place holder on values. If we use the .35% increase to crit damage.
I believe glancing is 25% of white hits are 50%. But don't quote me on that yet.
I'm checking my sw stats and going over combat logs. It seems that this is the correct value for me. But for some of it I had weapon skill (which wow wiki still claims reduces your glancing blow chance, post 2.1 patch even). And some fights I had less than 10% and others more.
To find your own warriors breakpoint;
With Impale and Imp berserker stance (Most BT wars have at least this)
X = Your AP (Replace with Your AP)
Y = Your Crit % (Replace with your Crit %; like 25% or 33%)
For AP Gem
1.1 * (X + 16) * .45 * (120% + Y) = Z1
For Crit Gem
1.1 * X * .45 * (120% + Y + .35%) = Z2
If Z1 > Z2 then AP Gems are better for BT
If Z2 > Z1 then Crit Gems are better for BT
All of the below affect AP and/or Crit;
Impale, Imp Berserker, Unleashed Rage, Strength of Earth, Grace of Air, Blessing of Kings, Imp Blessing of Might, Imp Mark of the Wild, Leader of the Pack, Trueshot Aura, and Imp Hunters Mark.
Flametounge and Windfury also affect dps (Windfury > Grace of Air IMHO).
Edited, Sep 12th 2007 11:25am by devioususer
We should carry up to the .0000 place holder on values. If we use the .35% increase to crit damage.
I believe glancing is 25% of white hits are 50%. But don't quote me on that yet.
I'm checking my sw stats and going over combat logs. It seems that this is the correct value for me. But for some of it I had weapon skill (which wow wiki still claims reduces your glancing blow chance, post 2.1 patch even). And some fights I had less than 10% and others more.
To find your own warriors breakpoint;
With Impale and Imp berserker stance (Most BT wars have at least this)
X = Your AP (Replace with Your AP)
Y = Your Crit % (Replace with your Crit %; like 25% or 33%)
For AP Gem
1.1 * (X + 16) * .45 * (120% + Y) = Z1
For Crit Gem
1.1 * X * .45 * (120% + Y + .35%) = Z2
If Z1 > Z2 then AP Gems are better for BT
If Z2 > Z1 then Crit Gems are better for BT
All of the below affect AP and/or Crit;
Impale, Imp Berserker, Unleashed Rage, Strength of Earth, Grace of Air, Blessing of Kings, Imp Blessing of Might, Imp Mark of the Wild, Leader of the Pack, Trueshot Aura, and Imp Hunters Mark.
Flametounge and Windfury also affect dps (Windfury > Grace of Air IMHO).
Edited, Sep 12th 2007 11:25am by devioususer
Yes, but my point was that in terms of BT it doesn't matter in the slightest what your crit rate is when determining the breakpoint. +8 Crit Rating provides the same increase to BT damage if you're sitting at 0% crit or 70% crit. That's why when I calculated out the original forumla assuming 0% crit, it still worked when I did the actual math assuming 30% crit.
The glancing blow damage reduction number I pulled off all the old math, it's never been claimed that the patch changed the way the damage reduction was calculated - only that it reduced the probability of such.
EDIT: Looking over your math again;
X = Your AP (Replace with Your AP)
Y = Your Crit % (Replace with your Crit %; like 25% or 33%)
For AP Gem
1.1 * (X + 16) * .45 * (120% + Y) = Z1
For Crit Gem
1.1 * X * .45 * (120% + Y + .35%) = Z2
It should be;
T being the number of sTacking buffs you have, between 0 and 3.
In any event, as long as Y is a non-negative number the math works out to precisely the same figures for X. You can eliminate it from the equation and make it considerably easier.
EDIT2: Have to add in the 1, otherwise (say) a crit chance of zero would result in you dealing zero damage with Bloodthirst.
Edited, Sep 12th 2007 2:50pm by RPZip
Edited, Sep 12th 2007 2:52pm by RPZip
The glancing blow damage reduction number I pulled off all the old math, it's never been claimed that the patch changed the way the damage reduction was calculated - only that it reduced the probability of such.
EDIT: Looking over your math again;
Quote:
X = Your AP (Replace with Your AP)
Y = Your Crit % (Replace with your Crit %; like 25% or 33%)
For AP Gem
1.1 * (X + 16) * .45 * (120% + Y) = Z1
For Crit Gem
1.1 * X * .45 * (120% + Y + .35%) = Z2
It should be;
1.1 ^ (T) * (X + 16) * .45 * 1.2 * (1 + Y) = Z1 1.1 ^ (T) * (X) * .45 * 1.2 * (1 + Y + .0035) = Z2
T being the number of sTacking buffs you have, between 0 and 3.
In any event, as long as Y is a non-negative number the math works out to precisely the same figures for X. You can eliminate it from the equation and make it considerably easier.
EDIT2: Have to add in the 1, otherwise (say) a crit chance of zero would result in you dealing zero damage with Bloodthirst.
Edited, Sep 12th 2007 2:50pm by RPZip
Edited, Sep 12th 2007 2:52pm by RPZip
By the way... Jim, I wasn't knocking you with the BT post, I'd written that and then finished it during class but I couldn't post it until I got back into a Wireless area. =p Didn't see yours before I posted mine.
Continuing the saga of the 0 DPS, 1400 AP man with 30% crit and 14% hit, let's look at the offhand. For reference, this is the mainhand;
And this is the offhand.
Now, combined we get 165.8312 damage from our happy fellow here. This is also the % we multiply his tooltip damage to determine what his actual damage is (using this parameters), no matter what his AP works out to be. We can combine the two tables as follows, simply adding the mainhand and offhand in since their chance to perform each task are the same.
Adding in 8 Crit will increase his crit chance by .0035. Adding in 8 STR will increase his base damage by (8 / 7) * 1.1 ^ 3 * 1.625 = 2.4719. Running the numbers again, at our current parameters an 8 Crit gem will increase the damage multiplier by .0035 and 8 STR will increase the base by 2.4719. This means that you have to determine the point at which (again, using this table) increasing the multiplier by .0035 will cause a larger increase than a base increase of 2.4719.
With our hit/crit numbers, this works out to a combined base damage of 706.2571, or a combined weapon/AP total of 434.6306 on the mainhand, or 6084.8284 AP, or 4684.8284 AP with 100 DPS weapons.
So... in our very limited demonstration, AP causes a larger boost to autoattack than Crit does using fairly common numbers. It's worth noting that there would be absolutely zero effect on the final number based upon your current crit%, but modifying the hit% would have a significant impact.
Continuing the saga of the 0 DPS, 1400 AP man with 30% crit and 14% hit, let's look at the offhand. For reference, this is the mainhand;
Parry: 100 x 0.00 x .0000 = 0.0000 Dodge: 100 x 0.00 x .0560 = 0.0000 Miss : 100 x 0.00 x .0136 = 0.0000 Glanc: 100 x 0.65 x .2500 = 16.2500 Crit : 100 x 2.00 x .3000 = 60.0000 Hit : 100 x 1.00 x .2580 = 25.8000 Total: = 102.0500
And this is the offhand.
Parry: 62.5 x 0.00 x .0000 = 0.0000 Dodge: 62.5 x 0.00 x .0560 = 0.0000 Miss : 62.5 x 0.00 x .0136 = 0.0000 Glanc: 62.5 x 0.65 x .2500 = 10.1562 Crit : 62.5 x 2.00 x .3000 = 37.5000 Hit : 62.5 x 1.00 x .2580 = 16.1250 Total: = 63.7812
Now, combined we get 165.8312 damage from our happy fellow here. This is also the % we multiply his tooltip damage to determine what his actual damage is (using this parameters), no matter what his AP works out to be. We can combine the two tables as follows, simply adding the mainhand and offhand in since their chance to perform each task are the same.
Parry: 162.5 x 0.00 x .0000 = 0.0000 Dodge: 162.5 x 0.00 x .0560 = 0.0000 Miss : 162.5 x 0.00 x .0136 = 0.0000 Glanc: 162.5 x 0.65 x .2500 = 26.4062 Crit : 162.5 x 2.00 x .3000 = 97.5000 Hit : 162.5 x 1.00 x .2580 = 41.9250 Total: = 165.8312
Adding in 8 Crit will increase his crit chance by .0035. Adding in 8 STR will increase his base damage by (8 / 7) * 1.1 ^ 3 * 1.625 = 2.4719. Running the numbers again, at our current parameters an 8 Crit gem will increase the damage multiplier by .0035 and 8 STR will increase the base by 2.4719. This means that you have to determine the point at which (again, using this table) increasing the multiplier by .0035 will cause a larger increase than a base increase of 2.4719.
With our hit/crit numbers, this works out to a combined base damage of 706.2571, or a combined weapon/AP total of 434.6306 on the mainhand, or 6084.8284 AP, or 4684.8284 AP with 100 DPS weapons.
So... in our very limited demonstration, AP causes a larger boost to autoattack than Crit does using fairly common numbers. It's worth noting that there would be absolutely zero effect on the final number based upon your current crit%, but modifying the hit% would have a significant impact.
So what is the glancing mechanic? What percent of swings will be glance given no extra weapon skill and how much does glance reduce your normal dmg by.
If you could tell me this I could go edit and factor it in to give a better calculation.
If you could tell me this I could go edit and factor it in to give a better calculation.
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