I am finishing up lvling my priest tomorrow to get him to 70 and i am wanting to start pvping and possibly doing some arena right away. I have been playing around with the talent tree trying to make a good dmg/survivable priest for this. So far i have come up with this build. Any advice on what i need/dont need would be great. Does it seem like i am losing too much out of the shadow tree? Any advice is appreciated.
[link]http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bxMGzhrdbxZZVMGdMtoot
*edit* also let me know if the extra 10 or so points in the disc tree are even worth my time, i am just trying to put something differnt out there to see if it works. If they arent which points should i pull?
Edited, Sep 3rd 2007 12:29pm by kornpop
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Pure hybridFollow
33 posts
if it were me i would drop black out and take spirit tap because fo killing blows and the whole survivability thing lol but take out imp swp because how often do u realy see a swp run out or realy come close in a bg i would put it into shadow focus instead but the looks pretty good for a hybrid i guess i like hard shadow better but if that works then work it just my opinion
If you look up the top arena teams, there is a 28/33/0 build that priests use. In my battle group there are no shadow priests in the top teams, only holy/disc hybrids. Go with the winners :)
Scholar
33 posts
bah, go with the winners? I say go with something different, lol. Well i started up my arena team with my lock buddy. We started the week with 2 pieces of pvp gear each (bracers and cloak for both i believe) and we stopped our rating at 1598. After playing for a couple weeks now i do agree with you that the 28/33 build is pretty tough and probably would give our team the best rating .i think i am going to stay shadow as it is something a lil different, i did end up changing the build a bit
here is what i am going with
[link]http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bxMGzhrzbZZVMGdMtkbtx
here is what i am going with
[link]http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bxMGzhrzbZZVMGdMtkbtx
Arena spec
It's not worth giving up the extra DoT and damage for something as minor as Divine Spirit.
If you really want a survivability spec, that's cookie-cutter 28/33, but that's also a healing-only spec. I might see something like this, especially with heal->dmg change next patch, as a decent Smite/Healer build with high survivability at the cost of some healing ability. I really don't PvP enough to know if Meditation is worth taking over Silent Resolve, though, for any of the builds.
It's not worth giving up the extra DoT and damage for something as minor as Divine Spirit.
If you really want a survivability spec, that's cookie-cutter 28/33, but that's also a healing-only spec. I might see something like this, especially with heal->dmg change next patch, as a decent Smite/Healer build with high survivability at the cost of some healing ability. I really don't PvP enough to know if Meditation is worth taking over Silent Resolve, though, for any of the builds.
Scholar
33 posts
Isfreak i agree with you on some of the points, especially on the shadow tree build. I did forget to mention that i do get into a fair amount of 5 man instances, which probably made me lean more towards divine spirit and imp DS as my guild has 3 pally healers, 2 priest healers and 2 druid healers so there is not always a priest to be had in our groups.
imo though there are some talents you picked for the smiter build that i cant figure out. you maxed imp healing but didnt take full Blessed recovery or full spiritual guidance? i would much rather have more +spell dmg/healing and get more health back when crit. I may be wrong on these though as i have admittedly never played a 28/33 or any variation of this build for arena or pvp.
just doing a quick look and modifying/tinkering with you build i would have gone more with something like this as i think it gives much better synergy with the holy talents and a bit more survivability with spell warding and blessed recovery . Taking DS and imp DS are a great combo to have with the added spirit from spirit of redemtion and also increase your benifit from the talent spiritual guidance.
[link]http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bxTGzhMzrZbEth0bqb0h
thanks for all the comments/advice. I guess the only way to find out what really works is to take it to the battlefield.
imo though there are some talents you picked for the smiter build that i cant figure out. you maxed imp healing but didnt take full Blessed recovery or full spiritual guidance? i would much rather have more +spell dmg/healing and get more health back when crit. I may be wrong on these though as i have admittedly never played a 28/33 or any variation of this build for arena or pvp.
just doing a quick look and modifying/tinkering with you build i would have gone more with something like this as i think it gives much better synergy with the holy talents and a bit more survivability with spell warding and blessed recovery . Taking DS and imp DS are a great combo to have with the added spirit from spirit of redemtion and also increase your benifit from the talent spiritual guidance.
[link]http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bxTGzhMzrZbEth0bqb0h
thanks for all the comments/advice. I guess the only way to find out what really works is to take it to the battlefield.
lsfreak wrote:
If you really want a survivability spec, that's cookie-cutter 28/33, but that's also a healing-only spec.
Don't mean to nitpick, but 28/33 is a healing/survival/manaburning/dispelling spec. Its utility is what makes it shine.
Well, by "healing-only," I meant "not damage" :P And the reason I specced the smiter like that is that you *are* going to need to heal, especially in 2v2 and 3v3 where smite stands the most chance.
Looks like you are still unsure, because the skills that are not complete are not even the most useful. I do not see any particular goal in mind with that build.
I think that the time-reduction skills are a waste, because priests can shield and fear, which should allow all the time we need to cast spells. So, I would not bother. I have a 69 warlock, and the only time casting time matters, is when it is the difference between instant-cast and not.
Does anyone else think that Mind Blast should be an instant cast, instead of having a talent that reduces the cool-down?
This is the direction in which I am going with my priest. And I think it is the most practical for how I like to play. Both of us seem to willing to make a similar allocation, so my ideal build could appeal to you.
www.wowhead.com/?talent=bgMh0IxzbZZEG0zMxRht
My priest is in his 30s right now, so I am still undecided if I want Focused Mind, or Silent Resolve. Could anyone tell me if they have maxed either, and if it is worth the points?
Edited, Nov 3rd 2007 4:43pm by sederix
Edited, Nov 3rd 2007 4:44pm by sederix
I think that the time-reduction skills are a waste, because priests can shield and fear, which should allow all the time we need to cast spells. So, I would not bother. I have a 69 warlock, and the only time casting time matters, is when it is the difference between instant-cast and not.
Does anyone else think that Mind Blast should be an instant cast, instead of having a talent that reduces the cool-down?
This is the direction in which I am going with my priest. And I think it is the most practical for how I like to play. Both of us seem to willing to make a similar allocation, so my ideal build could appeal to you.
www.wowhead.com/?talent=bgMh0IxzbZZEG0zMxRht
My priest is in his 30s right now, so I am still undecided if I want Focused Mind, or Silent Resolve. Could anyone tell me if they have maxed either, and if it is worth the points?
Edited, Nov 3rd 2007 4:43pm by sederix
Edited, Nov 3rd 2007 4:44pm by sederix
Scholar
33 posts
casting time doesnt matter?
....... no comment
im not gonna say anything about your build even though you found time to nitpick mine. Just got 3 words for it.... Where's inner focus?
ok ok that may be counted as 4 words since i used a contraction.
....... no comment
im not gonna say anything about your build even though you found time to nitpick mine. Just got 3 words for it.... Where's inner focus?
ok ok that may be counted as 4 words since i used a contraction.
You asked us to knit-pick your build, when you said, "Any advice on what I need/dont need would be great... Any advice is appreciated." I am sorry that you did not think my advice was great.
There is only one cast-time reduction talent in those two trees, and that is Improved Mana Burn. Maxing that skill will leave one with a two second casting time. So, in the case of these two trees, I remain firm that casting time is not the most helpful.
I should ask, how often do you use Mana Burn? You said that you were looking for a PVP build, so I am going to assume that is where you feel the one second difference is going to matter. If this is your main attack spell, then why would you prefer that over something that has no casting time, or deals more damage?
Here is one example of why a reduced Improved Mana Burn would be a waste, when you could spend points in better areas:
At Rank 7 (level 70), Mana Burn deals up to 539 shadow damage (0.5 x 1079 mana), after 2 seconds (3 sec. minus 1).
If you consider the effects of interruption, you could theoretically die before ever finishing the spell. If you survive, you would still have to cast multiple times before taking down a target with this spell alone.
Personally, I would rather cast a spell that is going to take down a target a lot faster, or at least provide some distance between us, so I have time to buff or cast another spell.
As for Inner Focus, then I suppose you could spend those points in that, or any other skill that will allow you to kill faster.
There is only one cast-time reduction talent in those two trees, and that is Improved Mana Burn. Maxing that skill will leave one with a two second casting time. So, in the case of these two trees, I remain firm that casting time is not the most helpful.
I should ask, how often do you use Mana Burn? You said that you were looking for a PVP build, so I am going to assume that is where you feel the one second difference is going to matter. If this is your main attack spell, then why would you prefer that over something that has no casting time, or deals more damage?
Here is one example of why a reduced Improved Mana Burn would be a waste, when you could spend points in better areas:
At Rank 7 (level 70), Mana Burn deals up to 539 shadow damage (0.5 x 1079 mana), after 2 seconds (3 sec. minus 1).
If you consider the effects of interruption, you could theoretically die before ever finishing the spell. If you survive, you would still have to cast multiple times before taking down a target with this spell alone.
Personally, I would rather cast a spell that is going to take down a target a lot faster, or at least provide some distance between us, so I have time to buff or cast another spell.
As for Inner Focus, then I suppose you could spend those points in that, or any other skill that will allow you to kill faster.
sederix wrote:
This is the direction in which I am going with my priest. And I think it is the most practical for how I like to play. Both of us seem to willing to make a similar allocation, so my ideal build could appeal to you.
www.wowhead.com/?talent=bgMh0IxzbZZEG0zMxRht
Edited, Nov 3rd 2007 4:44pm by sederix
What exactly is your planned playstyle with that build? It has no direction it seems. If I invited you to dps a level 70 instance as shadow and found out you didn't have VT or Misery I would kick you out and take a different class who does more damage. If you're not going to return mana to your group as a shadow priest, it sort of defeats the whole purpose of the tree.
Scholar
33 posts
Sed the reason i said you were nitpicking is because i know you dont know what you are talking about. I was asking for help from people who have good experience playing lvl 70 priests specifically in BGs/arena. I really dont feel like flaming you but your build is terrible. Imp mana burn? how much do i use it? All the time, 2 sec cast time is a life saver. A shadow priest with mana burn can destroy a pally/warr combo in arena or it can take an annoying healer out of the fight in BGs.
I dunno what instant cast spells you are wanting to use as a spriest. we have 1 instant cast spell (which you dont get till the end of the game pretty much) and 1 instant cast dot. So our strengths dont really sit in that area. You could theoretically die all the time. Trust me anytime you can take a full sec of the cast time of a spell you usually go for it. Ask a elem shammy how terrible those 2 sec lightning bolts and 1.5 sec chain lightnings are, those prolly arent really worth it though.....
I dunno what instant cast spells you are wanting to use as a spriest. we have 1 instant cast spell (which you dont get till the end of the game pretty much) and 1 instant cast dot. So our strengths dont really sit in that area. You could theoretically die all the time. Trust me anytime you can take a full sec of the cast time of a spell you usually go for it. Ask a elem shammy how terrible those 2 sec lightning bolts and 1.5 sec chain lightnings are, those prolly arent really worth it though.....
Sorry sederix, but I'm going to have to say you have no idea what you're talking about.
If you seriously think shield and fear do much of anything for serious PvP... I can usually count on fear lasting about half a second, and similar with shield (it's either burned through that fast, or dispelled).
How often do you use mana burn? All the ******* time, especially if you're in arena and have a 2v2 built on outlasting (Disc priest and SL/SL lock, for example). The damage on Mana Burn is negligible, you don't cast it to do damage.
That's a great theory! It also applies to every single other spell in the game with a cast time! WOW!
As for the builds, I still have to say that going into shadow beyond maybe 10 points requires getting VT. Any shadow priest without it is going to get a quick party kick for someone who knows what they're doing and brings more to the group. VT is the staple of every shadow priest, no exceptions, unless you plan on healing and not damaging in instances.
If you seriously think shield and fear do much of anything for serious PvP... I can usually count on fear lasting about half a second, and similar with shield (it's either burned through that fast, or dispelled).
How often do you use mana burn? All the ******* time, especially if you're in arena and have a 2v2 built on outlasting (Disc priest and SL/SL lock, for example). The damage on Mana Burn is negligible, you don't cast it to do damage.
Quote:
If you consider the effects of interruption, you could theoretically die before ever finishing the spell.
That's a great theory! It also applies to every single other spell in the game with a cast time! WOW!
As for the builds, I still have to say that going into shadow beyond maybe 10 points requires getting VT. Any shadow priest without it is going to get a quick party kick for someone who knows what they're doing and brings more to the group. VT is the staple of every shadow priest, no exceptions, unless you plan on healing and not damaging in instances.
To some of you: my character usually arrives in the top five for the Horde side, at the Battlegrounds. So, your opinion has little ground with me at this time, but thanks for sharing.
I think that is a matter of opinion, as well. And, if one where to start a thread asking that question, I am positive there will be conflicting sides.
Take for example the original poster to this thread: he did not go all the way down the three either. Why would I want to return mana to the group, when I could be just as effective doing DPS? That would be like shunning any other class for not being mana, either.
Hybrid, you said nothing about asking other high-end priests. You said that ANY advice would be "great". Again, I am sorry that I could not read your mind to anticipate your needs, and that my advice was not great by your high standards.
What is with all the passive-aggressive behavior? It's not like anyone (at least I) is saying one has to be play a certain way. If you dont like what I have to offer, then dont use it.
Edited, Nov 5th 2007 1:32pm by sederix
Quote:
If you're not going to return mana to your group as a shadow priest, it sort of defeats the whole purpose of the tree.
I think that is a matter of opinion, as well. And, if one where to start a thread asking that question, I am positive there will be conflicting sides.
Take for example the original poster to this thread: he did not go all the way down the three either. Why would I want to return mana to the group, when I could be just as effective doing DPS? That would be like shunning any other class for not being mana, either.
Hybrid, you said nothing about asking other high-end priests. You said that ANY advice would be "great". Again, I am sorry that I could not read your mind to anticipate your needs, and that my advice was not great by your high standards.
What is with all the passive-aggressive behavior? It's not like anyone (at least I) is saying one has to be play a certain way. If you dont like what I have to offer, then dont use it.
Edited, Nov 5th 2007 1:32pm by sederix
Quote:
I think that is a matter of opinion, as well. And, if one where to start a thread asking that question, I am positive there will be conflicting sides.
If we're talking about instance/raiding, then no, you're wrong. Simple as that. While our dps is good, it's our utility that makes us worth taking. No one would bring a shadowpriest to a raid who didn't have vt unless they had 0 options left. Why would a raid leader bring a "good" dps over a great one? because our dps lets everyone else in the group be better since they won't have to worry about mana as much.
Let me put it this way: on a raid, VT is about 200dps and adds 1000mp5 worst-case to an entire group for the entire duration of the fight. If you do not have VT, you WILL run out of mana and you WILL be worthless. My mana pool is about 9500 fully buffed, but I'll go through about 45000 mana on a boss fight.
It's not quite as extreme in PvP, however VT is another debuff on top of the 7 we should already have on our targets. It's another thing for dispelled to worry about, we already have mana problems in PvP and VT helps alleviate that, it's more damage. Misery and VT are both big bonus for survivalist arena teams and Shadow Power is important for more burst damage (which we lack).
It's not quite as extreme in PvP, however VT is another debuff on top of the 7 we should already have on our targets. It's another thing for dispelled to worry about, we already have mana problems in PvP and VT helps alleviate that, it's more damage. Misery and VT are both big bonus for survivalist arena teams and Shadow Power is important for more burst damage (which we lack).
Scholar
33 posts
"To some of you: my character usually arrives in the top five for the Horde side, at the Battlegrounds"
means nothing to me if you arent lvl 70 as every other bracket is worlds away from the lvl 70 bracket and they dont compare well at all in many areas.
"Hybrid, you said nothing about asking other high-end priests. You said that ANY advice would be "great"."
True i did not specify that i wanted high end priest, but plz use some common sense. Why would i want advice from someone that has no high lvl experience with the class. While at times someone less experienced may have a good idea or some useful insight, for the most part you are going to want input from those taht have been there and tried that.
means nothing to me if you arent lvl 70 as every other bracket is worlds away from the lvl 70 bracket and they dont compare well at all in many areas.
"Hybrid, you said nothing about asking other high-end priests. You said that ANY advice would be "great"."
True i did not specify that i wanted high end priest, but plz use some common sense. Why would i want advice from someone that has no high lvl experience with the class. While at times someone less experienced may have a good idea or some useful insight, for the most part you are going to want input from those taht have been there and tried that.
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