first off, im a lv 49 frost mage. my gear is decent, but not twink. I personally think I did my talents well, as I have used many suggestions from these forums.
Now, my problem is that I am terrible at pvp. That would be ok, except I am leveling this mage for end game arena with a lock and priest friend. I noticed my inability to kite/survive/dps in pvp around lv 20, but I ignored it, thinking I would improve quickly. Now at 49, I have improved, but only to the point where I can beat a warrior my lv ( yes I was really bad at lv 20 lol). Every other class completely rips me apart, especially shamans for some reason. Now, maybe I just don't get the gist of kiting, but I can't do it for my life. Usually, I try to sheep, get b ack as far as possible, do a few frost bolts, frost nova, frost bolt more, blink, frost bolt once or twice. Now I can never pull this off. What seems to happen is I frost nova, but (if it is a shaman) he will manage to killme, or bring me down a ton of health before i can get out of range. Also, people resist a lot which always screws me over. I guess I just have a lot of trouble at adjusting to situations, or problems that occur. If my frost nova or polymorph gets resisted, I am very often dead. Also, no matter how hard I try, when I try kiting they always seem to be in melee range, I don't get how. WHen i kite, i try to frost bolt and start strafing in a large circle around my opponent. for some reaosn this never works. In general I just find frost build v ery difficult to pvp with, and I'm wondering what I hsould do to improve. I am seriously thinking of switching to fire at lv 50, is this a good idea for pvp and lving purposes? If not, what should I do as frost to not feel like the worst pvper in the world.
just to give u a scope of how bad my abilities in pvp are, I was killed by the same shaman 4 times in a row, and a pally 3 times in a row. both were my lv, and both were at half health on the first battle. I don't exaclty remember what I did to lose so badly, but I definitely did everything possible wrong.
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- pvp trouble
pvp troubleFollow
Well, I'm new to frost as well, but let me tell you, I respecced frost at 51, and it was great, Mainly because at 50 you get the All-powerful Water Elemental, I haven't PvP'ed with it yet, but I can definetly see the potential... I'd say... if you want to stay at 49, then go fire (I did great as a fire mage in 49 bracket) after that go frost... But I've never PvPed so... Y'know, sorry if I am totaly wrong. =D
ExPerson
ExPerson
ooooook where to start. Practice, does wonders. Frost is the big pvp choice for mages. frostmage>firemage at pvp imnsho. Post your build and I'll toss you a few tips about how to best use your tools at hand. Shammys are tough, always have been. Shammys, locks, and hunters are all hard to beat one on one as a mage. A rogue can rip you to pieces if he catches you unaware. Priests, meh. Mage dps>priest dps (in most cases...damn shadow priests). Don't solo pvp so much. A mage can solo pvp very well, if you have the skills and talents to back it up. They also bring alot to group pvp with less skill enforcement and a great way to practice. I have three mages now, one 60 pre bc, one 70, and my new one 57. Pre bc ele build, 70 30second build, 57 deep frost and let me tell you...deep frost is my favorite pvp build out of the three.
Some good advice here. Please post your build/armory so that we can critique it.
The mage can be one of the most effective pvp classes in the game, but achieving this level of success is very dependent on gear, talent choice, hotkey usage, and overall speed on the keyboard. I feel that your greatest difficulties are probably emerging from your choice (or non-choice) of effective hotkeys along with possible improvements in talent build choices. Since the mage is a very fast-paced, finesse character class, I strongly recommend that you become accustomed to never taking your right hand off your mouse and your left hand off the keyboard. You should choose hotkeys for spells such as frost nova, ice lance, cone of cold, cold snap, ice block, counterspell, blink, etc. so that you can quickly reach them AND you will need to do so without ever looking down at the keyboard to be truly effective. Letters close to the movement keys such as 'q', 'f', 'r', and so on are the best choices, as they are the easiest to find by touch. Also, when you turn your character around in battle (possible after frost nova and blinking through them), make sure you right click on the screen and use the mouse to turn your character as this is significantly faster and will allow an extra second or so of spellcasting time. You will also want to master a technique where you run from your opponent, jump, spin around and cast fire blast or ice lance, and turn back in the original direction before you reach the ground. This is a huge improvement over just walking backwards b/c of the extra speed advantage. As far as talent builds go, I have including a few links below for predominantly frost builds of a level 50 character which, of course, will need to be further developed as you progress towards 70. Hope you enjoy.
Full Frost:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000505320310005013201541
Arcane/Frost Hybrid:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2300050000000000000000000000000000000000000000505320310005013201000
Full Frost:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000505320310005013201541
Arcane/Frost Hybrid:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2300050000000000000000000000000000000000000000505320310005013201000
1 post
just wanted to add the rune of perfection did wonders for me when it comes to them resisting you.... my friend was having the same problem he got one and loved me for it...
39 posts
The viability of frost in PVP at lvl 49 is questionable. At lvl 29 frost is amazing because you have shatter whereas most other classes have nothing to compare to it in talents. Fire will serve you well in PVP till you are high level. Once you learn Ice Lance, fire is fairly inept in PVP. At lvl 70, Fire is raiding, Frost is PVP, period. At 50 however, you receive water elemental. I think i can safely say that performance will greatly improve with that addition. For example, you can frostbolt and then have ure elemental drop a FN right before FB goes off.
On the other hand, Fire performs VERY well for leveling. Unless you are Frost AoE grinding, leveling frost can be compared to leveling a druid resto :P. Definitely go fire if you dont plan to stop. Your single target damage will go through the roof. Dragons breath is fun, if just for the interrupt.
On the other hand, Fire performs VERY well for leveling. Unless you are Frost AoE grinding, leveling frost can be compared to leveling a druid resto :P. Definitely go fire if you dont plan to stop. Your single target damage will go through the roof. Dragons breath is fun, if just for the interrupt.
The key to surviving mage pvp is to rely on instants more than your frostbolt. Notice that shatter works with ALL spells cast by you, no matter if they are frost, fire, or arcane. A frost nova + fireblast can be very effective in taking down a single target. Follow that up with a cone of cold and you have some heavy burst damage.
The other part is to keep moving. Everyone sees a mage (or lock) and thinks "squishy". Expect to be a prime target. You will need to be on the ball to frost nova, blink, and strafe around the battle. That is why instant spells are so important; you don't have to stand still for 3 seconds with blue sparklies around your hands and a giant target on your back. When no one seems to notice you, thats when you throw around the frostbolt. But always be ready to interrupt your cast so you can get out of harms way.
Ice barrier should be up everytime you engage the enemy. And be ready with the counterspell, it really messes up paladins and priests when you land it.
I just got out of some AB at 48, and I did pretty well as a full frost mage. You have to adjust your tactics in every bracket, since you get new abilities and your enemies do too. You would be surprised how much it helps to have a suicidal mage rush in, frost nova, and blink out. It can actually turn the tide of a large battle. And ice block confuses the hell out of most people :)
Good luck.
The other part is to keep moving. Everyone sees a mage (or lock) and thinks "squishy". Expect to be a prime target. You will need to be on the ball to frost nova, blink, and strafe around the battle. That is why instant spells are so important; you don't have to stand still for 3 seconds with blue sparklies around your hands and a giant target on your back. When no one seems to notice you, thats when you throw around the frostbolt. But always be ready to interrupt your cast so you can get out of harms way.
Ice barrier should be up everytime you engage the enemy. And be ready with the counterspell, it really messes up paladins and priests when you land it.
I just got out of some AB at 48, and I did pretty well as a full frost mage. You have to adjust your tactics in every bracket, since you get new abilities and your enemies do too. You would be surprised how much it helps to have a suicidal mage rush in, frost nova, and blink out. It can actually turn the tide of a large battle. And ice block confuses the hell out of most people :)
Good luck.
Scholar
40 posts
In lower lvls the combo Frostbolt + Ice Lance can be replaced by Frostbolt + Fireblast...you might be near to be in range from Blast, so you can CoC the foe too, and...well...maybe the Frostbite can proc, and here we go to another Shatter crit (if you are far enogh, before using CoC...you can even make the combo with FB + Blast again...then Blink/Pet´s Nova and play to crit your foe forever and ever...=P). If your instants are on cooldown and you can´t stand still to cast Frostbolt or whatever...Arcane Explosion running alway from your target if he´s melee or jumping/passing to his back if he´s caster.
PVPing with Frost is so much better than with Fire IMO...but at 49 you can give Fire a chance...you get a new Rank of Fireball/Pyro at 48, can have Blazing Speed, Imp Fireblast, Blast Wave and Flamethrowing...if you know how to hide yourself on battlegrounds you can pwn hard (talking about dmg and killing blows...but you will definately be a glass cannon).
And yeah...I don´t know any Trinket combination better than Rune of Perfection and Insignia of the Horde/Alliance at this lvl for pvp (maybe a Jewelcrafted one don´t know).
Hope I helped.
PVPing with Frost is so much better than with Fire IMO...but at 49 you can give Fire a chance...you get a new Rank of Fireball/Pyro at 48, can have Blazing Speed, Imp Fireblast, Blast Wave and Flamethrowing...if you know how to hide yourself on battlegrounds you can pwn hard (talking about dmg and killing blows...but you will definately be a glass cannon).
And yeah...I don´t know any Trinket combination better than Rune of Perfection and Insignia of the Horde/Alliance at this lvl for pvp (maybe a Jewelcrafted one don´t know).
Hope I helped.
All good advice given above, there might be another thing adding to your failage at kiting, and thats gear.
Unless you're very good kiting is never a perfect art, and it takes a long time to become good enough to start having less stamina and more damage gear. It might be the simple matter that you need more hp, you're always gonna take at least a few hits in pvp no matter what happens. You say 'my gear is decent, but not twink', well a lot of people who pvp at that level DO have twink gear and twink gear alone - they will overpower you through sheer force of stats. Personally I think its a waste of money and time and you dont learn the full capacity of the class (eg spellsteal is a MAJOR mage ability at level 70, and I see so few spellstealing my earth shield even in 1v1 fights).
It might be that you're trying to use cast time abilities too much. Use cone of cold after frost novaing, particularly vs a shaman. Also use scorch - if they earth shock that you have 6 seconds to cast what you want (unless they're in your face which they shouldnt be anyway), and if they dont, its still damage. Overspammage of frost bolt in pvp can be quite nooby, but never using it is just as bad. The trick is knowing the other classes, knowing what spells they have to stop you, and knowing how to fool them into using their abilities at the wrong time.
Unless you're very good kiting is never a perfect art, and it takes a long time to become good enough to start having less stamina and more damage gear. It might be the simple matter that you need more hp, you're always gonna take at least a few hits in pvp no matter what happens. You say 'my gear is decent, but not twink', well a lot of people who pvp at that level DO have twink gear and twink gear alone - they will overpower you through sheer force of stats. Personally I think its a waste of money and time and you dont learn the full capacity of the class (eg spellsteal is a MAJOR mage ability at level 70, and I see so few spellstealing my earth shield even in 1v1 fights).
It might be that you're trying to use cast time abilities too much. Use cone of cold after frost novaing, particularly vs a shaman. Also use scorch - if they earth shock that you have 6 seconds to cast what you want (unless they're in your face which they shouldnt be anyway), and if they dont, its still damage. Overspammage of frost bolt in pvp can be quite nooby, but never using it is just as bad. The trick is knowing the other classes, knowing what spells they have to stop you, and knowing how to fool them into using their abilities at the wrong time.
One thing, you mentioned that shamans beat you easily. Well, as a shaman, I find that mages are easy to kill in pvp; not always the case, especially if he is really really skilled, but usually I come in winning. We have Earth Shock, which interrupts your spells (no more polymorph for a few seconds, or whatever else you may be casting); Grounding Totem, which absorbs any harmful effect on us (takes away a huge frostbolt crit, for instance); Frost Resistance Totem, which really lessens the damage you put on us (not a lot of shamans use this quite so often, so this may not be too relevant to your situation); and soon enough, by the time you're casting your third spell, our Earth Shock is off cooldown.
I have a mage myself, only 39 though. When I see a shaman, I generally try to GTFO. I've tried beating them, but it only works when they don't see my charging up a frostbolt or poly.
If anyone has any ideas on how to actually beat a shaman from a mage's view, that would be interesting to see too.
EDIT: If you see a shaman coming at you, look for his totems. Once you've found them, you can ice lance them -- even the first rank would work, as most totems have little health. Any instant cast spell should kill most totems, really injuring the shaman's capability to interrupt your spells and resist them too.
If you just throw an ice lance his way, the grounding totem should eat it up, and in turn be destroyed.
Here's a great link from WoWWiki on PvP tactics for Mages: Click Here
Edited, Aug 25th 2007 10:58:39am by GWynand
Edited, Aug 25th 2007 11:02:02am by GWynand
I have a mage myself, only 39 though. When I see a shaman, I generally try to GTFO. I've tried beating them, but it only works when they don't see my charging up a frostbolt or poly.
If anyone has any ideas on how to actually beat a shaman from a mage's view, that would be interesting to see too.
EDIT: If you see a shaman coming at you, look for his totems. Once you've found them, you can ice lance them -- even the first rank would work, as most totems have little health. Any instant cast spell should kill most totems, really injuring the shaman's capability to interrupt your spells and resist them too.
If you just throw an ice lance his way, the grounding totem should eat it up, and in turn be destroyed.
Here's a great link from WoWWiki on PvP tactics for Mages: Click Here
Edited, Aug 25th 2007 10:58:39am by GWynand
Edited, Aug 25th 2007 11:02:02am by GWynand
13 posts
Ok dude, now...this is what has helped me as a frostie. The first is talents called frostbite, ice block, permafrost, improved frost nova, shatter, ice shards, cold snap, and ice barrier. Frostbite is a melee's bane, they hit you and BAM 10% chance of being frosted to the floor like a frost nova for a few seconds. Anything that causes chill has a 10% chance to freeze them(yea, even them hitting your ice armor counts and sometimes you'll see them freeze and you didnt do ANYTHING). Freezing is a good thing, itz how you kite and how you kill them thanks to shatter (which increases ur crit chance by 50% while they are frozen when you hit them with a frost spell) and ice shards (100% more damage when frost spell crits) Chill is your best friend, especially against warriors, hilarious to watch them walk slowly toward you and die before they get to hit you again lol Now for your defense: Ice block, blink, mana shield, and ice barrier. I only say mana shield for when your ice barrier is on cool down. Blink is the reason a rogue should never beat you, because you can blink out of everything but gouge and blind (you can even blink out of a warrior's charge, druid's entangled roots, hunter's cuncussion shot, another mage's frost nova, anything that stuns or roots basically) for anything else, there's ice block lol you can ice block while being feared, put to sleep, and blinded haha (cool thing about ice block is you can just press the button twice and it'll ice block and then cancel it so you wont waste any time in the battle, like when a priest fears you because they have a smidglit of life left...ice block/cancel fire blast pvp/duel over haha) that's just the basics...now, for the whole shaman thing, wand the grounding totem and sheep him, then wand his other totems, get your distance and start frost bolting, he'll probably use his instant that will interrupt your spell so after that just get into range and pop him with fire blast and cone of cold, frost nova blink. Shoot off some more frost bolts and counter his heals with counter spell (and if you are blood elf like me, use your racial silence as a second counter) by this time pop him again with a fire blast and cone of cold and the battle is usually over (remember our friend the shaman is a leather wearer, so think of him as a rogue with magic.) Just keep a shield up and if you run out of mana, just throw up a shield and use evoc, then the dance begins again. Just remember to try and keep your enemies frozen and get your distance, because that is where your damage is. As for improvising, you'll figure out tricks, just pvp and duel alot, it'll come to you. Trust me, i sucked *** until i grabbed Ice barrier at 40, somehow itz the evening bar against other classes, that extra defense you were lacking. Well goodluck frost mage, and welcome to the gods ^^
Walkingman
Walkingman
Some tips that helped me.
When you hit the end of a level bracket, spend a few days doing nothing but pvp in that bracket. it will help your skills increase, as well as your awareness and lower what i call "panic mode" where you just freak out and do any random thing.
I for one have become a master at running away from people. sadly they are by far more skilled than my actual fighting skill.
things i noted:
stay in the back, at range and pluck away with frost bolt for as long as the opponent will let you. frost reach goes a LONG way for you to help stay outta the fight and keep your distance. the longer you can stay outta the fight the better.
do not under any circumstances think you can take on more than 4 people and win. if you see that many coming at you, run back to backup. or you can do what i like sometimes and just suicide mage, pop off as many instant cast spells for as long as you can untill you die, and pray your team is behind you to clean up the mess. that has worked several times for me, resulting in total domination of the opposition by my team. use that as a last resort tactic though.
always be mindful of where your restoration items are. the ones that look like a treasure chest that spawn in the bg's. these will instantly bring your mana back up as well as any health you loose. great tools, especially in WSG. if you get into trouble, run for one of them.
mage plays very similar to hunter, only we are far more restricted in our damage output due to our mana reliance. you basically wanna be a back row fighter, buy time and do what you can to make sure the opponent doesn't notice you. gonna be kinda hard tho if your nuking them for 300-400 damage every few seconds. they gonna start looking for people who are nailing them that hard.
hope that helps.
Magicbane
48 BE Mage
Wildhammer
When you hit the end of a level bracket, spend a few days doing nothing but pvp in that bracket. it will help your skills increase, as well as your awareness and lower what i call "panic mode" where you just freak out and do any random thing.
I for one have become a master at running away from people. sadly they are by far more skilled than my actual fighting skill.
things i noted:
stay in the back, at range and pluck away with frost bolt for as long as the opponent will let you. frost reach goes a LONG way for you to help stay outta the fight and keep your distance. the longer you can stay outta the fight the better.
do not under any circumstances think you can take on more than 4 people and win. if you see that many coming at you, run back to backup. or you can do what i like sometimes and just suicide mage, pop off as many instant cast spells for as long as you can untill you die, and pray your team is behind you to clean up the mess. that has worked several times for me, resulting in total domination of the opposition by my team. use that as a last resort tactic though.
always be mindful of where your restoration items are. the ones that look like a treasure chest that spawn in the bg's. these will instantly bring your mana back up as well as any health you loose. great tools, especially in WSG. if you get into trouble, run for one of them.
mage plays very similar to hunter, only we are far more restricted in our damage output due to our mana reliance. you basically wanna be a back row fighter, buy time and do what you can to make sure the opponent doesn't notice you. gonna be kinda hard tho if your nuking them for 300-400 damage every few seconds. they gonna start looking for people who are nailing them that hard.
hope that helps.
Magicbane
48 BE Mage
Wildhammer
Ok,
I don't wanna put anyone down but this strat uhhh, well I just can't see that working. Your shields will be purged, your spells will be countered, and if you think of a shammy as a rogue you will die...over and over. Soz, but that's what I see happening. How "I" beat shammys (and you don't have to use this strat but I do okies) is expect to be naked and interupted. Use whatever dmg mitigation you have at your disposal and be quick on the cs. Don't cs till the heal comes. Shammys can burst but we can burst better. They have more hp, more armor, and can heal so waiting on cs is super important. Blink early to get a few seconds (which really can make all the difference). This of course is assuming you are fighting one on one which doesn't happen all that often in bg unless you are in AV. Good luck!
Quote:
Shoot off some more frost bolts and counter his heals with counter spell (and if you are blood elf like me, use your racial silence as a second counter) by this time pop him again with a fire blast and cone of cold and the battle is usually over (remember our friend the shaman is a leather wearer, so think of him as a rogue with magic.) Just keep a shield up and if you run out of mana, just throw up a shield and use evoc, then the dance begins again.
I don't wanna put anyone down but this strat uhhh, well I just can't see that working. Your shields will be purged, your spells will be countered, and if you think of a shammy as a rogue you will die...over and over. Soz, but that's what I see happening. How "I" beat shammys (and you don't have to use this strat but I do okies) is expect to be naked and interupted. Use whatever dmg mitigation you have at your disposal and be quick on the cs. Don't cs till the heal comes. Shammys can burst but we can burst better. They have more hp, more armor, and can heal so waiting on cs is super important. Blink early to get a few seconds (which really can make all the difference). This of course is assuming you are fighting one on one which doesn't happen all that often in bg unless you are in AV. Good luck!
would fighting a paly be similar to a shaman with the well times CS on the heals? I've had a very hard time fighting any paly. I'm only a 39 fire mage. Tried my first BG at 19 and got owned by all of the twink rogues that I decided to wait until 30's to give it another try.
I've been raping rogues, locks, and warriors. Hunters are a little more difficult, but end up winning a little more than dieing. I hate fighting other mages and have never beat a paly yet. Any tips on fighting a paly would be highly appreciated.
I've been raping rogues, locks, and warriors. Hunters are a little more difficult, but end up winning a little more than dieing. I hate fighting other mages and have never beat a paly yet. Any tips on fighting a paly would be highly appreciated.
Fight a Paladin as you would fight a Warrior. It's the same fight, except they have 2 ranged attacks, Judgement (of any kind) and Hammer of Wrath. Kite them until try to heal, then cs. If they bubble, they give you free options. They can't hit you, so check your mana. Use a gem, pop a bandage for lost health, and have a spell casting before their bubble runs out. Then kill them. Pally's are easy.
Hard classes to beat for a mage (fire): SL Warlocks, Frost Mages. That's it.
Hard classes to beat for a mage (fire): SL Warlocks, Frost Mages. That's it.
/\ Agree, but remember you can be interupted so plan on that at least once. Have a back up plan.
PaymoreAttention wrote:
The viability of frost in PVP at lvl 49 is questionable. At lvl 29 frost is amazing because you have shatter whereas most other classes have nothing to compare to it in talents. Fire will serve you well in PVP till you are high level. Once you learn Ice Lance, fire is fairly inept in PVP. At lvl 70, Fire is raiding, Frost is PVP, period. At 50 however, you receive water elemental. I think i can safely say that performance will greatly improve with that addition. For example, you can frostbolt and then have ure elemental drop a FN right before FB goes off.
On the other hand, Fire performs VERY well for leveling. Unless you are Frost AoE grinding, leveling frost can be compared to leveling a druid resto :P. Definitely go fire if you dont plan to stop. Your single target damage will go through the roof. Dragons breath is fun, if just for the interrupt.
On the other hand, Fire performs VERY well for leveling. Unless you are Frost AoE grinding, leveling frost can be compared to leveling a druid resto :P. Definitely go fire if you dont plan to stop. Your single target damage will go through the roof. Dragons breath is fun, if just for the interrupt.
I was agreeing with your post until I reached this:
On the other hand, Fire performs VERY well for leveling. Unless you are Frost AoE grinding, leveling frost can be compared to leveling a druid resto :P. Definitely go fire if you dont plan to stop. Your single target damage will go through the roof.
Frost single-target grinding is very effective (trust me, I leveled 30-70 with it). I can generally take out a mob just as quickly as a fire mage, especially with shatter crits+frostbite procs. In the time it takes for you to get one pyroblast off I have had almost three frostbolts (which would have killed them most of the time [not including crits]).
That's cause pyro is a waste of time :P.
Anyway, remember to use cone of cold a lot, when I'm frost, I usually kill rogues with cone of cold, usually even just that, these probably aren't the best rogues, but it's a good example of how well kiting can work. You do need permafrost for this, but when you have that, your snare lasts longer then the cd, and slows them down to below regular walk speed even with sprint up. Godlike if you ask me.
Anyway, remember to use cone of cold a lot, when I'm frost, I usually kill rogues with cone of cold, usually even just that, these probably aren't the best rogues, but it's a good example of how well kiting can work. You do need permafrost for this, but when you have that, your snare lasts longer then the cd, and slows them down to below regular walk speed even with sprint up. Godlike if you ask me.
For rogues? >.>...<.<...ok. Why not just set a level one arc exp on hand. Rogue goes steath and you do the exploding mage routine then proceed to pwn him? CoC only hits in front meaning the invisi rogue has to be in front of you or you just popped a CoC for nothing, got ambushed like a **** and went home in a body bag. Not a good thing.
Recent Visitors: 102
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (102)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- pvp trouble
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC