As far as build I've done alot of research and feel that my current build is as good as it gets for DW fury. Though I'm thinking of a small tweak.
Next time I raid I'ma mark down what my off hand dps is fully buffed because I'm in the middle of determining if taking one point out of impale and maxing my DW spec will get me a net increase in dps.
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That's more or less what I'm looking at, although I'll probably snag Piercing Howl as well (raid utility, and it's useful on fights like Morogrim or Kael where spamable mass snares can be handy). I'd doubt that one point in DW spec is ever going to generate more damage than Impale, but eh.
So what skills should I use in raids if I go Fury/Arms spec? I'm 70 but I've never actually done anything with dual wielding. WW/Slam spam?
RPZip wrote:
Pre-nerf, though. Post-nerf my numbers got a lot lower, although Solarian is still a good fight for me.
Whats your DW fury set looking like? Just gimme the hit, crit and AP. Also when you get back to raiding let me know the numbers you pull. Also the build you go with would be nice.
That's a good question.
I don't actually have an answer at the moment.
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Whats your DW fury set looking like? Just gimme the hit, crit and AP. Also when you get back to raiding let me know the numbers you pull. Also the build you go with would be nice.
That's a good question.
I don't actually have an answer at the moment.
i'm 33/m/cleve, 8/7/46, 8.2/11.8/856, around 750tps, better when i feel like it ;)
how you doin?
I have no idea what you just said
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That's more or less what I'm looking at, although I'll probably snag Piercing Howl as well (raid utility, and it's useful on fights like Morogrim or Kael where spamable mass snares can be handy). I'd doubt that one point in DW spec is ever going to generate more damage than Impale, but eh.
If your going to snag PH then pull a point out of DW spec, and not imp WW. I've already done the math on that and one point in imp WW is more total dps than one point in DW spec.
I can't remember the exact numbers but I remember your math on impale being 1.75% increase in dps per point given certain dmg percentages (% from yellow crit, and % from all others). One point in DW spec increases off hand dps by 2.5%. Off hand total dps scales with hit and crit rate (as well as weapon dmg and AP, this goes for both); while impale only scales with crit rate.
I agree it's a long shot but it intrigues me to find out. I'll end up making a thread with my findings later.
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I have no idea what you just said
I think he was hitting on me, and now I'm scared.
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If your going to snag PH then pull a point out of DW spec, and not imp WW. I've already done the math on that and one point in imp WW is more total dps than one point in DW spec.
Agreed.
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Off hand total dps scales with hit and crit rate (as well as weapon dmg and AP, this goes for both); while impale only scales with crit rate.
%-wise, sure, but in terms of overall damage contribution adding more AP increases the damage bonus that Impale will give you (hit harder, crit harder-er).
So... what skills should I be mainly using with DWing with Fury/arms?
Bloodthirst, Whirlwind, Heroic Strike in that order based on rage availability. Don't Heroic Strike in a sustained DPS environment (boss/raids) unless you have enough rage available to ensure that you can Bloodthirst or Whirlwind when they come off cooldown. If Flurry isn't up, replace Heroic Strike with Hamstring, as it's relatively cheap rage-wise and can proc that Flurry where Heroic Strike won't help you (it can also help proc weapon enchants, like Mongoose or the Drakefist's haste proc).
RPZip wrote:
Quote:
I have no idea what you just said
I think he was hitting on me, and now I'm scared.
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If your going to snag PH then pull a point out of DW spec, and not imp WW. I've already done the math on that and one point in imp WW is more total dps than one point in DW spec.
Agreed.
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Off hand total dps scales with hit and crit rate (as well as weapon dmg and AP, this goes for both); while impale only scales with crit rate.
%-wise, sure, but in terms of overall damage contribution adding more AP increases the damage bonus that Impale will give you (hit harder, crit harder-er).
Indeed, my point was that dw spec dmg increase also scales with hit rating where impale doesn't. Also impale doesn't scale "fully" with crit rating since impale only affects yellow crits. As we all know dw fury dmg is mainly white.
I'ma have to parce myself and figure out my total dmg from crit yellow and my total dmg from offhand attacks in a given senario (will probably use prince fight). Then I'll be able to draw a conclusion. As I said it's a long shot for dw spec to pull ahead but just from how the two talents work I'm interested enough to test it and find out.
So when I don't have flurry up, use hamstring to probe for one?
If you have the excess rage. Good rule of thumb is not to "dump" rage unless you have over 50.
If I have more than 50, I should dump till I have 50?
Pretty much. Heroic strike is the norm rage dump. Cleave is second most common for 2 situations a) your getting too high on threat (dumps more rage and doesn't cause as much threat as HS) and b) multiple mobs are around (don't break CC'ed mobs).
So fury warriors gain lots of threat?
DW spec vs. Imp. WW:
Assume Drakefist Hammer, Malchazeen, +200 hit (or around that... +12% chance to hit. 15% with Presision), 33% crit, constant Flurry and 2k AP raid buffed.
MH formula: [(159 + 296) / 2 = 227.5] [227.5 + (2000 * 2.7 / 14) = ~613]
OH formula: [(132 + 199) / 2 * 0.6 = 99.3] [99.3 + (2000 * 1.8 / 14 = ~356] (with 4/5 DW spec).
BT formula: [2000 * 0.45 = 900]
WW formula: [227.5 + (2000 * 2.4 / 14) = ~570]
HS formula: [227.5 + (2000 * 2.7 / 14) + 176 = 789]
A fight lasts for 100 sec. Constant Flurry will make your weapon speeds:
MH - 2.16, swings 46 times in 100 sec.
OH - 1.44, swings 69 times in 100 sec.
BT - 6.0, can be used 16 times in 100 sec.
WW - 8.0, can be used 12 times in 100 sec.
We're going to assume 16 out of the 46 MH hits are HS:es.
Lets factor in the miss rate first. You've got above +8.6% chance to hit, so all your yellow attack will hit. This leaves us with 30 MH strikes, and 69 OH strikes. You've got +15% chance to hit, so that leaves you 9% chance to miss.
MH: [613 * 30 = 18 390] [18 390 * 0.91 = ~16 735]
OH: [356 * 69 = 24 564] [24 564 * 0.91 = ~22 353]
Now add in crit to the white damage:
[(22 353 + 16735) * 1.33 = ~51 987]
Now the yellow damage:
BT: [900 * 16 = 14 400]
WW: [570 * 12 = 6 840]
HS: [789 * 16 = 12 624]
No hit penalty, add crit factor along with Impale:
[(12 624 + 6 840 + 14 400) * 1.43 = ~48 426]
Total damage done: 100 413.
Now, lets do the same with 5/5 in DW spec and 1/2 in Imp. WW.
OH formula changed: [(132 + 199) / 2 *0.6 0.625 = 103.4375] [103.4375 + (2000 * 1.8 / 14 = ~361]
WW - 9.0, can be used 11 times in 100 sec.
The rest is the same.
MH: [613 * 30 = 18 390] [18 390 * 0.91 = ~16 735]
OH: [361 * 69 = 24 564] [24 909 * 0.91 = ~22 667]
Crit: [(16 735 + 22 667) * 1.33 = 52 405]
BT: [900 * 16 = 14 400]
WW: [570 * 11 = 6 270]
HS: [789 * 16 = 12 624]
Crit + Impale: [(14 400 + 6 270 + 12 624) * 1.43 = ~47 610]
Total damage done: 100 015.
Now, let's do it with 1/2 in Impale, 5/5 in DW spec and 2/2 in WW spec.
MH: [613 * 30 = 18 390] [18 390 * 0.91 = ~16 735]
OH: [361 * 69 = 24 564] [24 909 * 0.91 = ~22 667]
Crit: [(16 735 + 22 667) * 1.33 = 52 405]
BT: [900 * 16 = 14 400]
WW: [570 * 12 = 6 840]
HS: [789 * 16 = 12 624]
No hit penalty, add crit factor along with Impale:
[(12 624 + 6 840 + 14 400) * 1.38 = ~46 732]
Edit: Total damage done: 99 137.
In summary: Impale > Imp. WW > DW spec.
Seems like you really know what you're talking about Jim. I would've expected a different outcome, but you were right.
Edited, Sep 10th 2007 6:45pm by Xordon
Assume Drakefist Hammer, Malchazeen, +200 hit (or around that... +12% chance to hit. 15% with Presision), 33% crit, constant Flurry and 2k AP raid buffed.
MH formula: [(159 + 296) / 2 = 227.5] [227.5 + (2000 * 2.7 / 14) = ~613]
OH formula: [(132 + 199) / 2 * 0.6 = 99.3] [99.3 + (2000 * 1.8 / 14 = ~356] (with 4/5 DW spec).
BT formula: [2000 * 0.45 = 900]
WW formula: [227.5 + (2000 * 2.4 / 14) = ~570]
HS formula: [227.5 + (2000 * 2.7 / 14) + 176 = 789]
A fight lasts for 100 sec. Constant Flurry will make your weapon speeds:
MH - 2.16, swings 46 times in 100 sec.
OH - 1.44, swings 69 times in 100 sec.
BT - 6.0, can be used 16 times in 100 sec.
WW - 8.0, can be used 12 times in 100 sec.
We're going to assume 16 out of the 46 MH hits are HS:es.
Lets factor in the miss rate first. You've got above +8.6% chance to hit, so all your yellow attack will hit. This leaves us with 30 MH strikes, and 69 OH strikes. You've got +15% chance to hit, so that leaves you 9% chance to miss.
MH: [613 * 30 = 18 390] [18 390 * 0.91 = ~16 735]
OH: [356 * 69 = 24 564] [24 564 * 0.91 = ~22 353]
Now add in crit to the white damage:
[(22 353 + 16735) * 1.33 = ~51 987]
Now the yellow damage:
BT: [900 * 16 = 14 400]
WW: [570 * 12 = 6 840]
HS: [789 * 16 = 12 624]
No hit penalty, add crit factor along with Impale:
[(12 624 + 6 840 + 14 400) * 1.43 = ~48 426]
Total damage done: 100 413.
Now, lets do the same with 5/5 in DW spec and 1/2 in Imp. WW.
OH formula changed: [(132 + 199) / 2 *
WW - 9.0, can be used 11 times in 100 sec.
The rest is the same.
MH: [613 * 30 = 18 390] [18 390 * 0.91 = ~16 735]
OH: [361 * 69 = 24 564] [24 909 * 0.91 = ~22 667]
Crit: [(16 735 + 22 667) * 1.33 = 52 405]
BT: [900 * 16 = 14 400]
WW: [570 * 11 = 6 270]
HS: [789 * 16 = 12 624]
Crit + Impale: [(14 400 + 6 270 + 12 624) * 1.43 = ~47 610]
Total damage done: 100 015.
Now, let's do it with 1/2 in Impale, 5/5 in DW spec and 2/2 in WW spec.
MH: [613 * 30 = 18 390] [18 390 * 0.91 = ~16 735]
OH: [361 * 69 = 24 564] [24 909 * 0.91 = ~22 667]
Crit: [(16 735 + 22 667) * 1.33 = 52 405]
BT: [900 * 16 = 14 400]
WW: [570 * 12 = 6 840]
HS: [789 * 16 = 12 624]
No hit penalty, add crit factor along with Impale:
[(12 624 + 6 840 + 14 400) * 1.38 = ~46 732]
Edit: Total damage done: 99 137.
In summary: Impale > Imp. WW > DW spec.
Seems like you really know what you're talking about Jim. I would've expected a different outcome, but you were right.
Edited, Sep 10th 2007 6:45pm by Xordon
Yha I did the math awhile back on imp WW vs dw spec point for point.
I'm still gonna record my own numbers since my stats are greatly varied from what your using in this example. 2700 raid buffed AP (before trinkets and without enhancement shammy /cry), 39.63% crit raid buffed with consumables, and 13.46% hit total. Course since my crit rate is so high it favors impale even more.
Math was solid save for the fact that it didn't account for dodges or glancing blow but hell who wants that much of a head ache lol.
I'm still gonna record my own numbers since my stats are greatly varied from what your using in this example. 2700 raid buffed AP (before trinkets and without enhancement shammy /cry), 39.63% crit raid buffed with consumables, and 13.46% hit total. Course since my crit rate is so high it favors impale even more.
Math was solid save for the fact that it didn't account for dodges or glancing blow but hell who wants that much of a head ache lol.
Heh, I always leave something out. Anyway, imho that would be a bit overkill.
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So fury warriors gain lots of threat?
Yes... We have no passive means of threat reduction inherent to our class. we get 80% that's it... Heroic strike is a higher threat skill, and with the kinds of DPS a warrior can deal, it's very likely you'll be riding the Threat Meter right below your MT, even holding off from times to times to let them pick up a bit of a lead.
----I play horde----
So I'm not used to having blessing of salvation. But you should have the salv buff on you at all times during raids as main DPS. Brings that insanely high TPS from warriors and puts it at a more reasonable place.
Protip: Have your friendly Shaman look into totem twisting. There are several macros out there that make it considerably easier... and with a good shaman, you don't lose any Windfury benefits. Most Shaman will twist Grace of Air. If you're threat limited, get them to twist Tranquil Air, at least during certain high-threat situations (Bloodlust, execute spam, etc). It works absolute wonders for making sure you don't pull threat and die.
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I'm not used to having blessing of salvation. But you should have the salv buff on you at all times during raids as main DPS. Brings that insanely high TPS from warriors and puts it at a more reasonable place.
Yes blessing of salv is the absolute most dmg increasing blessing you can have (given your to the point you need it). If you want to look at it in the most basic terms. Salv will allow you to do 30% more dmg than you normally could. Given of course that you have the gear (and skill) to do enough dmg to need the extra 30% threat reduction.
Dps warrior blessings go in this order of importance; salv, then might, then kings. Just keep in mind that dps warriors need a considerable amount of gear before we become viable for raid dps. DW fury warriors especially (we're the most gear dependant class/spec in the game). Plus side to that is we scale better with gear than any other class. Once you get to the "raid viability" level of gear you will out-pace every other dps class with equivilent gear.
Throw in the fact that you can swap out to your tank gear and OT, you have great raid viability.
Sad thing is, I'm always stuck with Blessing of Light and Blessing of Kings because our MT is a warrior D:
I want Salvation damnit...
I want Salvation damnit...
Just tell them to give you the greater blessing and lesser blessing the tank. They can easily refresh his blessing during combat since they have him targeted for healing anyways.
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Sad thing is, I'm always stuck with Blessing of Light and Blessing of Kings because our MT is a warrior D:
I want Salvation damnit...
I want Salvation damnit...
You can right click BoL off, and you should have salv. It'll be a lesser salv, but it's salv none the less.
There's no reason to ever click BoL off, since it can be overwritten by any single-target blessing anyway (i.e. the Paladin casts Salv on you, and since his Warrior Greater Blessing is Light, it'll overwrite your GBoL and give you BoSalv).
I don't even want to get started on how I had to fight tooth and ******* nail to get our Paladins to start giving the DPS classes Salv on a regular basis. Idiots... what's worse is our Paladin class leader used to be a pretty decent DPS warrior. Lazy *******...
I don't even want to get started on how I had to fight tooth and ******* nail to get our Paladins to start giving the DPS classes Salv on a regular basis. Idiots... what's worse is our Paladin class leader used to be a pretty decent DPS warrior. Lazy *******...
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