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Why is it that with my twink rogue, I always get killed by hunters because I can't reach them while their arrows and pet are slowly chewing away my health...but with my hunter twink I get beat to death by a rogue who somehow gets to me, even with wing clip and stuff? I admit it, I'm not exactly a twink yet, but it doesn't take much to twink a hunter, right? I just don't get it. I made a hunter twink because I know they're good (and fun) and I always see them on the top of the charts in WSG and AB, but what's happening? Is it just me? If it is, what do you think I need to work on. I was hoping to get more agility to wipe anyone in an instant, but does anyone here think I need a bit more stamina than agility? That's sorta what I'm thinking after I became a rogue's breakfast several times...
Are you asking us to rate your hunter or your rogue?
It sounds like you're talking about the hunter but you've provided no armory link for us to check the hunter's gear. We also don't know what level it is and what your playstyle is like at all.
We'll need more information before we can really say anything constructive.
It sounds like you're talking about the hunter but you've provided no armory link for us to check the hunter's gear. We also don't know what level it is and what your playstyle is like at all.
We'll need more information before we can really say anything constructive.
Ok, basicly hunters kill you on your rogue and rogues kill you on your hunter. Hate to say it, but I think the problem lays with you. You should learn the game before you start twinking. PvP is very hard to do optimally. As a hunter, you have to utilize traps and shots and other abilities to keep the opponent away from you. You also have to think about not breaking any of these abilities that are breakable. For instance, not Serpent Sting:ing an opponent you're soon going to be trapping.
Don't know much about rogues... I guess it's alot about utilizing stun lock and poisons.
"If no mistake have you made, yet losing you are ... a different game you should play." - Yoda.
Don't know much about rogues... I guess it's alot about utilizing stun lock and poisons.
"If no mistake have you made, yet losing you are ... a different game you should play." - Yoda.
A large part of the twink battlegrounds is maximizing the skills you have available. For example, if rogues are getting out of your wing-clip or concussive shot, are they using trinkets? Remember, that's a big part of the game. :)
With rogues, remember that HM is your friend as they cannot vanish at that early a level or easily dispel it... so it makes them very vulnerable. I would say a big part of what will help you in the early BGs is to spec MM with a bit of SV as well. For example, my planned build is:
-5/5 Mortal Shots
-3/3 Hawkeye
-2/2 Improved Raptor Strike
Give us some more specific info and I may be able to be more help :)
With rogues, remember that HM is your friend as they cannot vanish at that early a level or easily dispel it... so it makes them very vulnerable. I would say a big part of what will help you in the early BGs is to spec MM with a bit of SV as well. For example, my planned build is:
-5/5 Mortal Shots
-3/3 Hawkeye
-2/2 Improved Raptor Strike
Give us some more specific info and I may be able to be more help :)
Sounds like you aren't combatting a rogue correctly. If they have the drop on you, you need space- fast or they will down you quickly as rogue is a DPS spec also. At 19 they aren't stunlock masters so you should be able to run. At 29 it's a different story.
Since you didn't say 19 or 29, these are just generic tactics I use. They work for me, but it's not 100% and it depends on who gets the drop on whom. Since we are talking BG, mobs are less of a factor.
If they have the drop on you, Wingclip, freeze trap and run/jump THROUGH the rogue. THey will have to spin and you will be at max speed, send your pet immediately. Use your radar or watch your icons if you have them set to range sensitive, always best indicator for when you can fire.
Once clear of the rogue do a jumping turn and let fly with a concussive arrow. Keep them slow and use terrain against them (great for running them across traps) even if they use speed while clipped, they will still be only about as fast as you are at a forward run. Nice time for a freeze trap if they avoided it before. If you don't have the ability, frost is nice to slow them up.
If you can freeze trap them, it will be over for them. Then you are on to aimed shot and your pet will be on them as you fire it.
Your pet should be chewing on them this whole time unless you freeze trapped them. If you can stay clear of them, they will not stand a chance.
If you are the initiator, setup, trap protect yourself and if you have time [clueless foe] and a cat, prowl is great revenge... Send your pet, Aimed, Scorpid, Concuss, and Arcane. They might not live past that rotation if you got lucky in damage. Keep the DoTs on them, then they can't vanish. Hunter's Mark is less effective against them, I don't know when rogues get the dismiss ability now, hopefully someone will chime in. I just don't rely on it any more.
All this sounds easy to do but in actual play, it's hard. It will take practice- lots of it. It is possible to do. I've dropped rogues that were 4 levels higher than me and they were fighting competantly, I just got luckier in damage and timing. BM hunters should rip a rogue to shreds. MM it's harder unless you get the crits going your way. High enough of a crit off MM can almost 1 shot most rogue players with an aimed shot. Done this before too, but to clothies. Two shotted a rogue once in a BG.
Hope this helps, I am not a PvP expert and others will likely have better techniques. Just keep practicing.
Since you didn't say 19 or 29, these are just generic tactics I use. They work for me, but it's not 100% and it depends on who gets the drop on whom. Since we are talking BG, mobs are less of a factor.
If they have the drop on you, Wingclip, freeze trap and run/jump THROUGH the rogue. THey will have to spin and you will be at max speed, send your pet immediately. Use your radar or watch your icons if you have them set to range sensitive, always best indicator for when you can fire.
Once clear of the rogue do a jumping turn and let fly with a concussive arrow. Keep them slow and use terrain against them (great for running them across traps) even if they use speed while clipped, they will still be only about as fast as you are at a forward run. Nice time for a freeze trap if they avoided it before. If you don't have the ability, frost is nice to slow them up.
If you can freeze trap them, it will be over for them. Then you are on to aimed shot and your pet will be on them as you fire it.
Your pet should be chewing on them this whole time unless you freeze trapped them. If you can stay clear of them, they will not stand a chance.
If you are the initiator, setup, trap protect yourself and if you have time [clueless foe] and a cat, prowl is great revenge... Send your pet, Aimed, Scorpid, Concuss, and Arcane. They might not live past that rotation if you got lucky in damage. Keep the DoTs on them, then they can't vanish. Hunter's Mark is less effective against them, I don't know when rogues get the dismiss ability now, hopefully someone will chime in. I just don't rely on it any more.
All this sounds easy to do but in actual play, it's hard. It will take practice- lots of it. It is possible to do. I've dropped rogues that were 4 levels higher than me and they were fighting competantly, I just got luckier in damage and timing. BM hunters should rip a rogue to shreds. MM it's harder unless you get the crits going your way. High enough of a crit off MM can almost 1 shot most rogue players with an aimed shot. Done this before too, but to clothies. Two shotted a rogue once in a BG.
Hope this helps, I am not a PvP expert and others will likely have better techniques. Just keep practicing.
What lvl is your hunter twink?
If 19, killing rogues is not just cake, it's easy-bake!
At 19 Rogues can't slow you. But you must have the Sta to survive their opening attack. I'd say 1000 hp at 19 is a minimum(my hunter twink has 1600 or 1700 unbuffed). You need to get the rogue twinked. You need to jocky back and forth w/ the rogue (back up if he's staying out of melee range) - spamming WINGCLIP until it lands!
Then strafe the heck away. If he clicks out of it. You must reapply it.
Then, you've got him. Strafe kite (use strafe buttons to stay away from him, or even circle him (A E or Q D) (tap the turn buttons gently for a wide circle, jam them down for a tight circle) - and arcan shot and sting. Stop and multi and autoshoot when he's weak to finish him as he runs at you.
In 29 and above rogues use Crippling poison. This is something you must overcome to beat them.
Antivenom. Part of twinking is not just gear, it's CON SU MA BLES. Like anti venom, made w/ First Aid. You must have stacks and stacks of it to survive.
When jumped by a rogue, get him clipped - then Antivenom and strafe away in an unexpected direction. Kite.
You can also drop a Freezing Trap on the rogue. He'll see it if you pre-drop it, but dropping it on him in the heat of melee often catches him. But you MUST turn away from him if he gets trapped - and not hit him w/ your ax! Your pet now automatically stops attacking when his target is frozen in ice.
Get away, set up an aimed shot. They can click out of it now - then your option is to clip, antivenom and strafe away to kite.
Dwarves have "stone form" which = invulnerability to poison (for 8 sec?). That's another way to get away from a rogue.
The only way your rogue, at low lvls, can get hunters is to be very clever. You can't really stun lock til what - 39? At 29 you have some stuns. You need to get and use your trinket well. If you have vanish, but you have sting working on you, use antivenom before vanishing (if marked, you need a talent to wipe that, I think - or does vanish wipe that now?).
Or avoid one on one battles. Work with a group. Heh, go ask the rogue forum.
Anyway, the above you help you tons dealing w/ rogues, while playing hunter. The hard part is when two or three are on you - or you're in tight quarters (like in a base in wsg) - you just have to learn to use hallways to kite, etc.
If 19, killing rogues is not just cake, it's easy-bake!
At 19 Rogues can't slow you. But you must have the Sta to survive their opening attack. I'd say 1000 hp at 19 is a minimum(my hunter twink has 1600 or 1700 unbuffed). You need to get the rogue twinked. You need to jocky back and forth w/ the rogue (back up if he's staying out of melee range) - spamming WINGCLIP until it lands!
Then strafe the heck away. If he clicks out of it. You must reapply it.
Then, you've got him. Strafe kite (use strafe buttons to stay away from him, or even circle him (A E or Q D) (tap the turn buttons gently for a wide circle, jam them down for a tight circle) - and arcan shot and sting. Stop and multi and autoshoot when he's weak to finish him as he runs at you.
In 29 and above rogues use Crippling poison. This is something you must overcome to beat them.
Antivenom. Part of twinking is not just gear, it's CON SU MA BLES. Like anti venom, made w/ First Aid. You must have stacks and stacks of it to survive.
When jumped by a rogue, get him clipped - then Antivenom and strafe away in an unexpected direction. Kite.
You can also drop a Freezing Trap on the rogue. He'll see it if you pre-drop it, but dropping it on him in the heat of melee often catches him. But you MUST turn away from him if he gets trapped - and not hit him w/ your ax! Your pet now automatically stops attacking when his target is frozen in ice.
Get away, set up an aimed shot. They can click out of it now - then your option is to clip, antivenom and strafe away to kite.
Dwarves have "stone form" which = invulnerability to poison (for 8 sec?). That's another way to get away from a rogue.
The only way your rogue, at low lvls, can get hunters is to be very clever. You can't really stun lock til what - 39? At 29 you have some stuns. You need to get and use your trinket well. If you have vanish, but you have sting working on you, use antivenom before vanishing (if marked, you need a talent to wipe that, I think - or does vanish wipe that now?).
Or avoid one on one battles. Work with a group. Heh, go ask the rogue forum.
Anyway, the above you help you tons dealing w/ rogues, while playing hunter. The hard part is when two or three are on you - or you're in tight quarters (like in a base in wsg) - you just have to learn to use hallways to kite, etc.
Thx a lot guys. And sorry I didn't specify some things for you; my hunter is 29, my rogue is 19...and from the sounds of things it sounds like I should have switched them around, guess it's too late though.
I'm pretty sure it's not my problem with the rogue, it's the hunter. I haven't been doing a lot of the things you guys have said, and my main being a rogue, I've always learned how to kill hunters, not kill rogues as a hunter. I guess you're right, at 19 it's hard for a rogue because of no poisons, but I'll have to deal with that, and for my 29 hunter I'll have to deal with it also.
My hunter is BM spec..I guess I should respec to MM. Another question: how do I strafe with the keys? I normally use the arrow keys to move, and the mouse to strafe, and that's probably why I can't seem to find out how to strafe and shoot at the same time xD
Overall, I think I've got it; MM is better because of Aimed Shot and stuff, learn to use my traps and wing clip successfully, get more stam so I can live longer (does that mean I should use Triprunner Dungarees still? or should I find something else?), get lots of anti-venom, and learn that it's not exactly that easy...I think I've pretty much got it. Anything else?
Anyway, thx a lot for all the info guys, it'll help a lot.
I'm pretty sure it's not my problem with the rogue, it's the hunter. I haven't been doing a lot of the things you guys have said, and my main being a rogue, I've always learned how to kill hunters, not kill rogues as a hunter. I guess you're right, at 19 it's hard for a rogue because of no poisons, but I'll have to deal with that, and for my 29 hunter I'll have to deal with it also.
My hunter is BM spec..I guess I should respec to MM. Another question: how do I strafe with the keys? I normally use the arrow keys to move, and the mouse to strafe, and that's probably why I can't seem to find out how to strafe and shoot at the same time xD
Overall, I think I've got it; MM is better because of Aimed Shot and stuff, learn to use my traps and wing clip successfully, get more stam so I can live longer (does that mean I should use Triprunner Dungarees still? or should I find something else?), get lots of anti-venom, and learn that it's not exactly that easy...I think I've pretty much got it. Anything else?
Anyway, thx a lot for all the info guys, it'll help a lot.
Just as a heads-up, using the arrow keys as a hunter will get you one thing: dead.
It really increases the amount of time it takes you to turn in a circle, and if you are going to be kiting, you'll probably want to master the jump-shot (use both buttons to run, jump making a ~90 degree turn, fire). It takes a little practice, but once you get the hang of it it's a snap! :)
Other than that, it sounds like you've got the gist of it!
EDIT: As for the triprunner Dungarees, they're decent... but since they're BoP (I think) it'd be better to get some green "of the monkey" pants and have a LV 60+ put a clefthide or nethercleft leg armor kit on them for the stam and AP :)
Edited, Aug 13th 2007 7:50pm by ZulFrieze
It really increases the amount of time it takes you to turn in a circle, and if you are going to be kiting, you'll probably want to master the jump-shot (use both buttons to run, jump making a ~90 degree turn, fire). It takes a little practice, but once you get the hang of it it's a snap! :)
Other than that, it sounds like you've got the gist of it!
EDIT: As for the triprunner Dungarees, they're decent... but since they're BoP (I think) it'd be better to get some green "of the monkey" pants and have a LV 60+ put a clefthide or nethercleft leg armor kit on them for the stam and AP :)
Edited, Aug 13th 2007 7:50pm by ZulFrieze
i think my biggest problem in pvp is I use the mouse to move (pressing both buttons down). been in this habit since KOTOR and Morrowind.
doesn't help my wingclip is the 8 or 9 key. too hard for my left hand to reach it. I put it there because I don't use it in pve. And I'm out of room in my action bars for a pvp bar (on my healing chars I have instance healing bars with my heals on 1,2, 3 etc).
but when you are using the mouse to move you can't quickly move the mouse pointer over quickly to hit wing clip. oh well. I don't do bg's anyways. just defend cities such as UC from raids.
doesn't help my wingclip is the 8 or 9 key. too hard for my left hand to reach it. I put it there because I don't use it in pve. And I'm out of room in my action bars for a pvp bar (on my healing chars I have instance healing bars with my heals on 1,2, 3 etc).
but when you are using the mouse to move you can't quickly move the mouse pointer over quickly to hit wing clip. oh well. I don't do bg's anyways. just defend cities such as UC from raids.
Well, yea I can't turn fast enough but I'm able to click different things and target. When you said that, though, I didn't exactly get what you meant..if using the arrow keys gets me dead, then what else am I supposed to use? Also, thx for the info, but no one answered by strife question..anyone know?
Sorry, I didn't mean that post to come off as snotty--I promise that's not what I meant :)
I guess what I mean is that you can use the arrow keys situationally (EG, if you're running with both mouse-buttons, you release the right button and run with the "W" key while using the left button to look behind you.
Use the mouse to turn and run as much as you can and the arrows as a secondary backup. Yeah, it makes targeting a bit more of a pain, but if you quickly release and let the arrows take over, target, and then go back to the mouse, it will help you to be able to reach your shot hotkeys as well for kiting.
As for strafing, the defaults are Q and E to strafe left and right... and they will save your butt if you're not comfortable with the jump-shot. :) Does that help out at all?
I guess what I mean is that you can use the arrow keys situationally (EG, if you're running with both mouse-buttons, you release the right button and run with the "W" key while using the left button to look behind you.
Use the mouse to turn and run as much as you can and the arrows as a secondary backup. Yeah, it makes targeting a bit more of a pain, but if you quickly release and let the arrows take over, target, and then go back to the mouse, it will help you to be able to reach your shot hotkeys as well for kiting.
As for strafing, the defaults are Q and E to strafe left and right... and they will save your butt if you're not comfortable with the jump-shot. :) Does that help out at all?
To Thrashering, I had your same plight.
What I ended up doing is going out and buying a Logitech mouse with side buttons and a programmable center wheel click.
I've got silencing shot bound to the left most button, scatter in the center, and wing-clip on the right. These moves are crucial for PVP but maybe not so much for PVE... so it really helps to bind them. This also makes it a lot easier for when you need to target someone quickly and let fly (or spam a button).
Also, I don't know where you have Raptor Strike bound (if at all), but I have one that casts raptor and then wing clip. if raptor is on CD, it just spams WC. If it'll help, I can post the macro.... but I have that bound to 3 so it's in easy reach :)
What I ended up doing is going out and buying a Logitech mouse with side buttons and a programmable center wheel click.
I've got silencing shot bound to the left most button, scatter in the center, and wing-clip on the right. These moves are crucial for PVP but maybe not so much for PVE... so it really helps to bind them. This also makes it a lot easier for when you need to target someone quickly and let fly (or spam a button).
Also, I don't know where you have Raptor Strike bound (if at all), but I have one that casts raptor and then wing clip. if raptor is on CD, it just spams WC. If it'll help, I can post the macro.... but I have that bound to 3 so it's in easy reach :)
ok thx Zul, I think I've got what you mean now, I'll try that out the next time I'm in a BG..luckily my horde server isn't on the list for the 2 day downtime, but I still have to wait for that maitenance thing..and what makes things worse is that I have the thought stuck in my head that I wasn't able to reach 61 on my ally rogue before the servers went down (one bar left xD) thx for all your comments btw everyone =)
Edited, Aug 14th 2007 11:12am by Sneekky
Edited, Aug 14th 2007 11:12am by Sneekky
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